DRIVING A CAR LEGALLY BUT NOT EXACTLY!
Discussion
A really good mate of mine is being a tw@t I reckon! Although it's probably because I'm just jealous.
He's bought himself a nice BMW, and is only 17!
Anyways, he has a full license, tax MOT, everything.
BUT. He is jammy git because THREE members of his family have the SAME first and last name!
His dad, who is 52, his brother, who is 24, and obviously him at 17.
So he has taken out thrid party fire and theft insurance with Norwich Union at a cost of £1800, and he paid it in full. However, the car is insured with his dad a sthe main driver (because he is the main user anyway to be fair), and his OLDER BROTHER as the additional named driver (which is why the premium is so high). This is because NU won't insure a 17 year old on the car.
But my mate is going to be driving the car. He says if he gets pulled (likely if a plod sees a teen in a beemer), he will show his real license, as he reckons the plod will just see the on their computer that the car insured under his dad's name with HIM as an additional driver (both with identical names).
And he won't get pulled over by plate scanners because the CAR is fully insured, taxed, MOTd etc.
What do you guys reckon. Will he get caught and prosecuted? If so, what will be the fine?
Or he said he may claim to be his brother, and get HIM to do the producer at the station.
He's bought himself a nice BMW, and is only 17!
Anyways, he has a full license, tax MOT, everything.
BUT. He is jammy git because THREE members of his family have the SAME first and last name!
His dad, who is 52, his brother, who is 24, and obviously him at 17.
So he has taken out thrid party fire and theft insurance with Norwich Union at a cost of £1800, and he paid it in full. However, the car is insured with his dad a sthe main driver (because he is the main user anyway to be fair), and his OLDER BROTHER as the additional named driver (which is why the premium is so high). This is because NU won't insure a 17 year old on the car.
But my mate is going to be driving the car. He says if he gets pulled (likely if a plod sees a teen in a beemer), he will show his real license, as he reckons the plod will just see the on their computer that the car insured under his dad's name with HIM as an additional driver (both with identical names).
And he won't get pulled over by plate scanners because the CAR is fully insured, taxed, MOTd etc.
What do you guys reckon. Will he get caught and prosecuted? If so, what will be the fine?
Or he said he may claim to be his brother, and get HIM to do the producer at the station.
He stands a chance of getting away with it. However, a young lad in a BMW will draw attention (especially a newish one and not the crappy old ones),and will stand a better chance of getting stopped.
If hes involved in anything serious, then the Police might investigate further with the Ins Co and then its 'big boys stuff'.
Sadly, your mate is driving around in something that he cant afford and would be expecting someone else to carry the can if or should i say when, the wheel comes off.
If hes involved in anything serious, then the Police might investigate further with the Ins Co and then its 'big boys stuff'.
Sadly, your mate is driving around in something that he cant afford and would be expecting someone else to carry the can if or should i say when, the wheel comes off.
And when he has a shunt and renders someone a quadraplegic requiring constant care for the remainder of their life ... the insurers won't pay out!
He's driving while uninsured and his family are (apparently) not only condoning it but conspiring in it.
We don't like uninsured drivers.
Streaky
He's driving while uninsured and his family are (apparently) not only condoning it but conspiring in it.
We don't like uninsured drivers.
Streaky
actually quite a clever idea, though young guy + BMW = only a matter of time before he gets pulled. i think also it would take a fairly observant officer to spot the difference in DOB and he could make it all the better by carrying around his brothers licence for added credibility.
However. what is he going to do when he is involved in an accident? pretend his brother was driving and let him carry the can? hes ok with that? does his brother want your mates points on his license? TBH it might have just been easier and cheaper to buy a moody cover note for £30 rather than fork out close to 2k for insurance that doesnt cover him anyway!
Yes it will (most probably) work for the time being but thinks will start to go wrong very quickly if he is found out or involved in a motoring offence/accident - even if its not his fault. also - unless your mate is a surprisingly mature 17 year old - hes not gonna look 24 to an officer thats on the ball.
IMHO your mate should (if theres time) cancel the insurance hes already forked out for under the cooling off period and buy something he can afford. driving without insurance is stupid and your mate should bear in mind that his insurance is higher because of the higher risk he represents. ergo - he does actaully NEED insurance even more because of the grater chance of a prang.
However. what is he going to do when he is involved in an accident? pretend his brother was driving and let him carry the can? hes ok with that? does his brother want your mates points on his license? TBH it might have just been easier and cheaper to buy a moody cover note for £30 rather than fork out close to 2k for insurance that doesnt cover him anyway!
Yes it will (most probably) work for the time being but thinks will start to go wrong very quickly if he is found out or involved in a motoring offence/accident - even if its not his fault. also - unless your mate is a surprisingly mature 17 year old - hes not gonna look 24 to an officer thats on the ball.
IMHO your mate should (if theres time) cancel the insurance hes already forked out for under the cooling off period and buy something he can afford. driving without insurance is stupid and your mate should bear in mind that his insurance is higher because of the higher risk he represents. ergo - he does actaully NEED insurance even more because of the grater chance of a prang.
Hmmmm. 
Lets see!
1. No insurance = Your mate
2. Permit No insurance = His father,
3. Aid and abet No insurance = His father and brother
4. Conspiracy at Common Law = Your mate, father and brother,
5. Attempting to pervert the course of justice = Your mate, father and brother
Perm any of the above or if they unlucky the whole lot if they get cught and sadly, a 17 year old showing his Beamer off to his mates will attract unwanted attention from not only the Police but other concerned parties too.
I hope he doesn't upset anyone whom he tells. The more people that know, the more he has to keep them sweet.
Funny how this sort of information appears on regular briefings at shift changeover 
Lets see! 1. No insurance = Your mate
2. Permit No insurance = His father,
3. Aid and abet No insurance = His father and brother
4. Conspiracy at Common Law = Your mate, father and brother,
5. Attempting to pervert the course of justice = Your mate, father and brother
Perm any of the above or if they unlucky the whole lot if they get cught and sadly, a 17 year old showing his Beamer off to his mates will attract unwanted attention from not only the Police but other concerned parties too.
I hope he doesn't upset anyone whom he tells. The more people that know, the more he has to keep them sweet.
Funny how this sort of information appears on regular briefings at shift changeover Well surely if he's not a named driver on the policy, then he's not insured to drive it. Even if he had his own fully comp insurance on a cheap car, I'd expect there would be a clause to prevent drivers under a certain age from driving other cars with 3rd party cover
Am I right in believing that if you buy a car, then you are insured to drive it home (3rd party), as long as you have your own insurance on another vehicle?
Am I right in believing that if you buy a car, then you are insured to drive it home (3rd party), as long as you have your own insurance on another vehicle?
AJLintern said:
Am I right in believing that if you buy a car, then you are insured to drive it home (3rd party), as long as you have your own insurance on another vehicle?
No you are not right.
Did you see the last edition of the programme on North Yorkshire Traffic Police?
They stopped a chap driving an ex-Police car he had bought, back from an auction and was stopped. He tried to explain that the car was not his and he was driving it on behalf of a company he worked for. In effect the car belonged to his boss.
One of the officers asked the girl in the passenger seat of the car who the ex-Police car belonged to. She told him her boyfriend had just bought it for himself.
He had no traders policy and his own insurance did not cover him at all. Result was 6 points and a large fine including the cost of getting his car back from a Police pound. (in Yorkshire, they impound the car immediately for no insurance!).
If you do not have insurance which specifically covers any vehicle, then your own insurance will not cver you at all unless you phone the insurance company and tell them before you drive the new one.
>> Edited by gone on Sunday 20th June 14:11
Interesting - I've just looked at the policy documents for my cars, it states the following:
Policy document said:Sounds to me that you are covered to drive any other vehicle under 3rd party (at least with my insurance policy), as long as you have the permission of the owner, which would be you if you'd just bought it...
Section 1 - Liability to others
Driving other vehicles:
We will also provide the cover shown above to drive any private car that you do not own and have not hired under a hire purchase agreement or leasing agreement, as long as you have the owner's permission to drive the car.
You are not insured against the following:
1. Any loss or damage to the vehicle you are driving
2. Any event which occurs outside the UK
3. Any event which occurs when the insurance is not in the name of an individual person
4. Any liability if you no longer have possession of the insured vehicle.
Other people driving your vehicle
The following people are also insured:
1. Any person you allow to drive or use your vehicle, as long as this is allowed by your current certificates of insurance and has not been excluded by endorsement, exception or condition.
2. Any person who causes an accident while travelling in or getting into or out of the insured vehicle.
AJLintern said:
Sounds to me that you are covered to drive any other vehicle under 3rd party (at least with my insurance policy),
Correct as long as it belongs to someone else!
AJLintern said:
as long as you have the permission of the owner, which would be you if you'd just bought it...
You cannot give yourself permission to drive something you own!!
You can only be given permission in this case by someone else who owns the car and not yourself.
If you have just bought the car (payed for it) then you are the owner!!!
If you are the owner, you will not be covered under your policy until you have notified the insurance company that you have bought it and become the owner.
Do not kid yourself AJLintern. If you do this (buy a car and drive it under this policy without informing the insurers) you will not be covered!
AJLintern said:Sorry, but the operative words are: "We will also provide the cover shown above to drive any private car that you do not own". You own the vehicle, therefore the policy (for the other vehicle) does not cover it - Streaky
Interesting - I've just looked at the policy documents for my cars, it states the following: Policy document said:
Section 1 - Liability to others
Driving other vehicles:
We will also provide the cover shown above to drive any private car that you do not own and have not hired under a hire purchase agreement or leasing agreement, as long as you have the owner's permission to drive the car.
You are not insured against the following:
1. Any loss or damage to the vehicle you are driving
2. Any event which occurs outside the UK
3. Any event which occurs when the insurance is not in the name of an individual person
4. Any liability if you no longer have possession of the insured vehicle.
Other people driving your vehicle
The following people are also insured:
1. Any person you allow to drive or use your vehicle, as long as this is allowed by your current certificates of insurance and has not been excluded by endorsement, exception or condition.
2. Any person who causes an accident while travelling in or getting into or out of the insured vehicle.
Sounds to me that you are covered to drive any other vehicle under 3rd party (at least with my insurance policy), as long as you have the permission of the owner, which would be you if you'd just bought it...
Just two points:
1. 17 yr old in a BMW will escape detection by camera but because of the astronomical fee payable for Insurance then a wily black rat will immediately be alerted on a pull and cause enquiries to be made and half the family locked up. Had something similar in the old days when a gentleman of certain ethnic origin produced a driving licence. When asked if it was his fathers he said YES......(like a lamb to slaughter)
2. Anyone buying a car, reporting purchase to Insurance Co by phone and then driving off on their say so, be aware they may be driving without Insurance.
Why?
S147 RTA 88...a Policy of Insurance shall have no effect under the Act unless and until there IS DELIVERED by the Insurer TO THE PERSON who the policy is effected a CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE in the prescribed form and containing such particulars of any conditions subject to which the Policy was issued and any other matters that maybe prescribed.
Likewise if Insurance is cancelled by mutual consent then an offence not to within 7 days of the cancellation return the certificate to the issuer, or make a statutory declaration if lost or destroyed.
DVD
(picks up banjo and starts plucking...)
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Sunday 20th June 15:34
1. 17 yr old in a BMW will escape detection by camera but because of the astronomical fee payable for Insurance then a wily black rat will immediately be alerted on a pull and cause enquiries to be made and half the family locked up. Had something similar in the old days when a gentleman of certain ethnic origin produced a driving licence. When asked if it was his fathers he said YES......(like a lamb to slaughter)
2. Anyone buying a car, reporting purchase to Insurance Co by phone and then driving off on their say so, be aware they may be driving without Insurance.
Why?
S147 RTA 88...a Policy of Insurance shall have no effect under the Act unless and until there IS DELIVERED by the Insurer TO THE PERSON who the policy is effected a CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE in the prescribed form and containing such particulars of any conditions subject to which the Policy was issued and any other matters that maybe prescribed.
Likewise if Insurance is cancelled by mutual consent then an offence not to within 7 days of the cancellation return the certificate to the issuer, or make a statutory declaration if lost or destroyed.
DVD
(picks up banjo and starts plucking...)
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Sunday 20th June 15:34
I'm not trying to get away with anything here, I just want to know the facts - I don't want to find myself in a position of being uninsured through a misunderstanding! So you are insured to test drive a car you are buying before you give the seller the bankers draft, but as soon as you do you effectively own the car and are now uninsured?! 
So how are you supposed to drive it home? Does this mean that I'd have to leave it with the seller and organise insurance and wait for a cover note/insurance certificate to appear in the post?? Or maybe you'd have to extend the test drive all the way to your home, buy the car and take the seller home in your other fully insured car (assuming you hadn't sold it before hand!)
So how are you supposed to drive it home? Does this mean that I'd have to leave it with the seller and organise insurance and wait for a cover note/insurance certificate to appear in the post?? Or maybe you'd have to extend the test drive all the way to your home, buy the car and take the seller home in your other fully insured car (assuming you hadn't sold it before hand!) 
My advice would be to either arrange the insurance over the phone at the dealer's to sort out immediate cover. (You'll need your credit card usually)
Or, if you already know that you'll be buying the car, arrange you insurance beforehand to start from 4pm for example. Get your test drive over with on the company's insurance at 3pm and then wait until 4pm with a steaming mug of coffee in the shiny showroom to take your car home..
It's not rocket science, but common sense that will save you a fine and 6 points..
Or, if you already know that you'll be buying the car, arrange you insurance beforehand to start from 4pm for example. Get your test drive over with on the company's insurance at 3pm and then wait until 4pm with a steaming mug of coffee in the shiny showroom to take your car home..
It's not rocket science, but common sense that will save you a fine and 6 points..
chris1roll said:
I would take a friend with me who is also insured to drive a car he doesn't own, I buy it, pay the owner, he drives it home for me.
Is this acceptable?
Would he be driving it fully comp or is this method limited to third party,i.e if there is an accident is the cr going to be fixed by the insurance company
Well it would be his third party only insurance, however if youve driven a fair distance to look at a car and decide to buy it,then you don't wnat to come home without it
Besides all our cars are so old fully comp would be more than the car was worth. I insure them TPFT, so if it gets nicked i might get something, if i **** up and crash it, i have no one to blame but myself.
So far i have never crashed a car. cmae close a few times when i had just passed my test 5 years ago but i was stupid. and lucky
If he crashes it on the way home, and its his fault, he pays for it. Can't say fairer than that really.
>> Edited by chris1roll on Sunday 20th June 16:20
Besides all our cars are so old fully comp would be more than the car was worth. I insure them TPFT, so if it gets nicked i might get something, if i **** up and crash it, i have no one to blame but myself.
So far i have never crashed a car. cmae close a few times when i had just passed my test 5 years ago but i was stupid. and lucky
If he crashes it on the way home, and its his fault, he pays for it. Can't say fairer than that really.
>> Edited by chris1roll on Sunday 20th June 16:20
So as long as you organise with the insurance company and pay over the phone with a credit card you will be covered? This is what I thought, and have done this in the past - was unsure about having to receive the documents in the post first though! Thanks for making it more clear I suppose I thought it was similar to driving a car to an MOT test station, where you are allowed to do so even if the MOT certificate is out of date.
I suppose I thought it was similar to driving a car to an MOT test station, where you are allowed to do so even if the MOT certificate is out of date.AJLintern said:
I thought it was similar to driving a car to an MOT test station, where you are allowed to do so even if the MOT certificate is out of date.
Only 'pre arranged' MOT appointments.
As for driving without the documents 'in your hand'....Best practise is to wait for the documents to arrive. However, you will still be insured if done over the phone and awaiting the docs.
I know of a recent case where a motorist arranged cover over the phone with his credit card then drove the car home and used it for a couple of weeks. He was later contacted by the insurance firm for the premium to be told that the original telephone operator had wrote down the driver's credit card details incorrectly and as a result he'd been driving for two weeks uninsured.
Frightening isn't it?
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