What'll happen to me?
Discussion
Just been pulled for speeding in a 30 limit. Before you all pounce on me it's an inappropriate limit - the road is clear with good visibility and no turnings, and no houses or parked cars.
Conversation went thus:
"do you know why we've stopped you sir"
(I appreciate that I shouldn't have convicted myself, but presumed they had evidence, stupidly)
"yes sir, I was breaking the speed limit"
"how fast do you think you were going"
"45-50mph"
"more like 60mph"
He then proceeds to check my car over for road-worthiness, and fails to come up with anything.
Now he shows me the notes he's written down, which are essentially what I've just described, and gets me to sign it.
He says something about "driving without due care and attention" to which my response is a polite enquiry as to why that and not just a speeding offence.
Turns out he's not a traffic officer so his car isn't calibrated with any vascar or anything (this is why I should have said "I was doing 30mph sir"). As such he says he can't give me a speeding offence but can hand out a due care?
He asked if I had a licence and how many points are on it - I told him yes I did, and it has 12 points on it.
After he's given me a producer and
ed off I realise that he's not given me a NIP or anything. Is this again because he's not a traffic copper? Will I get a NIP in the post in the next 2 weeks, or will I be getting a court summons some time in the next 6 months? Or neither?
What's going on
Oh yeah, I forgot, also some guy stopped and gave (I presume) a witness statement - I have no idea what he saw or what he said, frankly his prescence confused me.
Fairly sure I'll lose my licence, or have to fight to keep it at least, just not quite sure what the procedure from now on will be and curious to know.
It's not like I speed along that street all the time either, moments earlier I'd travelled the other way along it and done a steady 35ish despite it being an inappropriate limit, on the way back I just wanted to taste a couple of seconds of acceleration before I got into a built up area - you know how it is! I'd just fitted a new fuel pump relay to the car and wanted to try some full-bore acceleration to see if it'd removed my flatspot. And that's the honest truth, not that it makes any difference or is any sort of excuse....
Conversation went thus:
"do you know why we've stopped you sir"
(I appreciate that I shouldn't have convicted myself, but presumed they had evidence, stupidly)
"yes sir, I was breaking the speed limit"
"how fast do you think you were going"
"45-50mph"
"more like 60mph"
He then proceeds to check my car over for road-worthiness, and fails to come up with anything.
Now he shows me the notes he's written down, which are essentially what I've just described, and gets me to sign it.
He says something about "driving without due care and attention" to which my response is a polite enquiry as to why that and not just a speeding offence.
Turns out he's not a traffic officer so his car isn't calibrated with any vascar or anything (this is why I should have said "I was doing 30mph sir"). As such he says he can't give me a speeding offence but can hand out a due care?
He asked if I had a licence and how many points are on it - I told him yes I did, and it has 12 points on it.
After he's given me a producer and
ed off I realise that he's not given me a NIP or anything. Is this again because he's not a traffic copper? Will I get a NIP in the post in the next 2 weeks, or will I be getting a court summons some time in the next 6 months? Or neither? What's going on
Oh yeah, I forgot, also some guy stopped and gave (I presume) a witness statement - I have no idea what he saw or what he said, frankly his prescence confused me.
Fairly sure I'll lose my licence, or have to fight to keep it at least, just not quite sure what the procedure from now on will be and curious to know.
It's not like I speed along that street all the time either, moments earlier I'd travelled the other way along it and done a steady 35ish despite it being an inappropriate limit, on the way back I just wanted to taste a couple of seconds of acceleration before I got into a built up area - you know how it is! I'd just fitted a new fuel pump relay to the car and wanted to try some full-bore acceleration to see if it'd removed my flatspot. And that's the honest truth, not that it makes any difference or is any sort of excuse....
The copper was very serious with me. It's my natural personality to make a bit of a joke when things have gone wrong, and he didn't seem to humour to me at all. Don't worry I didn't say anythign really stupid or offensive, just a couple of quips. I tried my hardest to be nothign but polite and courteous with him, and he just gave me the evil eye the whole time. Bastard.
To clarify what I said above: I admitted that I'd been speeding, and that I believe it was a safe stretch of road, good conditions etc. hey if it's good enough for the chief of traffic police it's good enough for me
I believed (at the time) that the totally honest approach was better than saying "I didn't realise I was speeding" because that just makes me sound completely incompetent.
To clarify what I said above: I admitted that I'd been speeding, and that I believe it was a safe stretch of road, good conditions etc. hey if it's good enough for the chief of traffic police it's good enough for me
I believed (at the time) that the totally honest approach was better than saying "I didn't realise I was speeding" because that just makes me sound completely incompetent.
if you were warned at the time that you were to be reported for driving without due care or whatever, then they have no obligation to serve any NIP or anything... next thing you get will be a court summons (if they decide there is enough evidence) or nothing at al (if they decide there isn't)
tvrgit said:
if you were warned at the time that you were to be reported for driving without due care or whatever, then they have no obligation to serve any NIP or anything... next thing you get will be a court summons (if they decide there is enough evidence) or nothing at al (if they decide there isn't)
When I was questioning the ins and outs of DWDC&A versus a simple SP30 he said "if you want to argue about it we can go through the courts".
Dunno, they've left me very confused! Spose I can ask someone when I produce tomorrow.
did he tell formally you that you are to be reported for DWDC&A? (usually accompanied by "Anything you say will be ... etc etc) If so, no NIP is needed... you've been told. They can prosecute or not, depends on the evidence.
If he didn't, then they have to inform you formally (within 14 days I think, but not sure - it would be unusual for police to make this elementary mistake)
If he didn't, then they have to inform you formally (within 14 days I think, but not sure - it would be unusual for police to make this elementary mistake)
If I could hijack this thread for a minute....
I had a dealing with the police - where I had called them to the scene of an accident, where a nutter kid in his moms car had swiped me (long story, I'll keep it brief). I gave the coppers a statement - after badgering them to do so for about 2 hours. My statement was only giving blame to other driver. I asked the police to check damage to my vehicle - to back my story and check roadworthiness - which they refused, even when I repeated the request twice. The copper said that after listening to the kid in his moms car, he was unaware me / my vehicle was involved in the accident. The copper mentioned nothing about me possibly being charged with any offence, took down two lines in his notebook for my statement, and said I would get a proper form to fill in a statement through the post. The next thing I heard was over 10weeks later when I got notice offering not to prosecute me for due care and attention if I payed £££££s for a police kickback driving course type thig - is this legal?? I believe the other driver was 3rd party on his moms car, and employed an ambulance chaser to try and pay for it - and made a complaint about me as leverage on the insurance claim.
Is this normal? I phoned the police and asked why I was being considered for prosecution, but they refuse to say. Sent letter back saying bugger off kindly, or word to that effect, and heard nothing for months (nearly year).
edited because last two posts appeared while writing the above....
I was never warned about being prosecuted untill over 10 weeks after - would that make prosecution viable, is that why I never heard back from them????
Are they just crafty buggers after my money for the driving course by using threats then????
>> Edited by feet on Sunday 20th June 22:32
I had a dealing with the police - where I had called them to the scene of an accident, where a nutter kid in his moms car had swiped me (long story, I'll keep it brief). I gave the coppers a statement - after badgering them to do so for about 2 hours. My statement was only giving blame to other driver. I asked the police to check damage to my vehicle - to back my story and check roadworthiness - which they refused, even when I repeated the request twice. The copper said that after listening to the kid in his moms car, he was unaware me / my vehicle was involved in the accident. The copper mentioned nothing about me possibly being charged with any offence, took down two lines in his notebook for my statement, and said I would get a proper form to fill in a statement through the post. The next thing I heard was over 10weeks later when I got notice offering not to prosecute me for due care and attention if I payed £££££s for a police kickback driving course type thig - is this legal?? I believe the other driver was 3rd party on his moms car, and employed an ambulance chaser to try and pay for it - and made a complaint about me as leverage on the insurance claim.
Is this normal? I phoned the police and asked why I was being considered for prosecution, but they refuse to say. Sent letter back saying bugger off kindly, or word to that effect, and heard nothing for months (nearly year).
edited because last two posts appeared while writing the above....
I was never warned about being prosecuted untill over 10 weeks after - would that make prosecution viable, is that why I never heard back from them????
Are they just crafty buggers after my money for the driving course by using threats then????
>> Edited by feet on Sunday 20th June 22:32
tvrgit said:
did he tell formally you that you are to be reported for DWDC&A? (usually accompanied by "Anything you say will be ... etc etc) If so, no NIP is needed... you've been told. They can prosecute or not, depends on the evidence.
Yes, I did get read my rights, that explains it.
So now I basically kick back and enjoy the next 6 months driving until the court summons turns up on my doorstep for my inevitable ban?
(Last time I had one it did take 6 months to the day from the date of the offence before it came through)
DH Seb.
Firstly for any BIB/XBIB to try and give words of help/advice on individual cases is extremely hard as to get anywhere near the truth one needs the "tale" from the other side and also as a bonus, evidence from an independant witness. Now by saying that I am not implying what you say is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Truth unfortunately gets distorted. Other BIBs will confirm that people involved in incidents etc tend to make out the most favourable "tale" and convince themselves that it is absolutely gospel whereas the lilly has been gilded somewhat. So straight away an area for conflict? Now if this arises the person/authority to resolve is those involved and not a third party in a forum although advice/comment may be sought.
Now your case.
Speeding offences need corroboration. In your case the Officer to form an opinion you were travelling at a fast speed in relation to the limit backed up with corroborative evidence from the reading of the speedometer. It is not necessary that a speedo be calibrated as High Court has said this is the case but only where high speed is involved in a reading well over the limit. So proceedings against you can be taken on this aspect.
Speeding offences and driving without due care requires a warning to be given of possible prosecution (NOIP) which has to be given either at the time verbally (when stopped) as pointed out by Tvrgit or by a written NOIP to be served within 14 days starting from the day after the offence.
On the verbal NOIP PC will normally say something like "you will be reported for the consideration of the question of prosecuting you for speeding and or driving without reasonable consideration" followed by the caution... There is no set form of these words like the caution, anything which leaves you with the knowledge that you are being reported has been held to suffice.
12 points on your Licence - some spent obviously?
Don't like your reference to a "witness" and from what you say seems more against than for you?
As I have said if you have a load of questions about the incident then call it at the local nick of the area involved and try and get them resolved through the Duty Inspector, but be mindful he may well be in the same boat I am.
DVD
Firstly for any BIB/XBIB to try and give words of help/advice on individual cases is extremely hard as to get anywhere near the truth one needs the "tale" from the other side and also as a bonus, evidence from an independant witness. Now by saying that I am not implying what you say is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Truth unfortunately gets distorted. Other BIBs will confirm that people involved in incidents etc tend to make out the most favourable "tale" and convince themselves that it is absolutely gospel whereas the lilly has been gilded somewhat. So straight away an area for conflict? Now if this arises the person/authority to resolve is those involved and not a third party in a forum although advice/comment may be sought.
Now your case.
Speeding offences need corroboration. In your case the Officer to form an opinion you were travelling at a fast speed in relation to the limit backed up with corroborative evidence from the reading of the speedometer. It is not necessary that a speedo be calibrated as High Court has said this is the case but only where high speed is involved in a reading well over the limit. So proceedings against you can be taken on this aspect.
Speeding offences and driving without due care requires a warning to be given of possible prosecution (NOIP) which has to be given either at the time verbally (when stopped) as pointed out by Tvrgit or by a written NOIP to be served within 14 days starting from the day after the offence.
On the verbal NOIP PC will normally say something like "you will be reported for the consideration of the question of prosecuting you for speeding and or driving without reasonable consideration" followed by the caution... There is no set form of these words like the caution, anything which leaves you with the knowledge that you are being reported has been held to suffice.
12 points on your Licence - some spent obviously?
Don't like your reference to a "witness" and from what you say seems more against than for you?
As I have said if you have a load of questions about the incident then call it at the local nick of the area involved and try and get them resolved through the Duty Inspector, but be mindful he may well be in the same boat I am.
DVD
Just so people know what a verbal NIP is:
"You will be reported for consideration, the question of prosecuting you for....[whatever offence you've commited]..."
This can be given verbally at the roadside, sent you the registered keepers last address or both.
Remember, as well, that if the matter is being dealt with by fixed penalty, no NIP needs to be said or sent.
"You will be reported for consideration, the question of prosecuting you for....[whatever offence you've commited]..."
This can be given verbally at the roadside, sent you the registered keepers last address or both.
Remember, as well, that if the matter is being dealt with by fixed penalty, no NIP needs to be said or sent.
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