Parking on Public Highway - Health and Safety at Work?
Discussion
There has been an "epidemic" (according to my work) of people parking on a Public Highway and would like some advice/opinions/abuse from the PH Massive.
Basically, we have an office with a multistorey car park, a "shiftworkers" carpark to be used for employees who's shift means they work past 7pm and an overflow carpark about 5 minutes walk away from the office.
When the Multistorey becomes full, people tend to park on the road outside the office (see pic below) and some tend to not even bother in the multistorey and just park on the road regardless.
This pic depicts the general surroundings: (pic is rather old bu now multistorey on the right hand side)
The yellow lines represent where people park on said road, where there are no double yellow lines, nor is there any signage whatsoever stating that people should not park there. Oviosuly the Highway Code comes into action when parking on junctions, causing an obstruction etc. So, as long as you have a road legal car, parking there is completely within the Law. However, the powers that be in the company have been moaning and groaning since we moved into the building that people are not to park on the main road on the basis that it is a Health and Safety hazard. Granted there are some numpties that park on the junction and on a corner etc, but the majority of people do park sensibly and more importantly legally. There have been a few instances where people have parked stupidly and have blocked lorries etc trying to get past.
We have just received this email: (any reference referring to the name of the building and/or company have been removed)
Despite many attempts to ask people to use their common sense and not park on the road outside the Office, we have had little impact. At the same time, others who are parking in the correct areas are getting increasingly annoyed at the risk to their own safety of the reduced visibility and reduced width of the road caused by people’s inconsiderate parking. We have also had complaints from other occupants on the business park and damage has been caused to at least one car.
We are sorry to have to formalize this, but many people are saying how unfair it is that they are parking correctly while others are not following the rules. There is plenty of parking available. In fact often people are parking on the road before 8am when there is still lots of parking in the multi storey, so we can only conclude that people are doing so because they don’t want to walk any distance at all from their car to the building. This isn’t acceptable – saving yourself five minutes’ walk compared to harming another driver, pedestrian or impeding an emergency vehicle is a no-brainer.
As a result, with effect from Monday 7 November, parking anywhere on the road outside the office even where there are no yellow lines will be forbidden. So, even though there are no parking restrictions, we are making this a company health & safety rule applying across the company for the safety of everyone.
From 7 November, it will be forbidden for anyone who works in or visits The office to park on the road. If anyone does, they will be asked to move their car and to make up the time they have lost in doing so. If anyone refuses, or is abusive to anyone who asks them to move (including the Facilities porters) then we will consider taking disciplinary action. Similarly, we will consider disciplinary action against people who persistently park on the road and create a hazard.
The parking map is attached - if anyone is in any doubt about any of the locations, the porters are happy to show you where the parking is found.
Remember, from 7th November, anyone who parks their car on the road will be asked to move it and you may face disciplinary action if you don’t comply.
What I want to know is, how can they impose this rule and how will they enforce it? How can anything that occurs on a public highway be included in the Health and Safety at Work? It will be intersting to see if someone is stubborn and takes it all the way to disciplinary just to see what the outcome will be.
Over to you PH
ETA - I will not be held liable for spelling or gramatical errors on the grounds of diminished responsibility.
Basically, we have an office with a multistorey car park, a "shiftworkers" carpark to be used for employees who's shift means they work past 7pm and an overflow carpark about 5 minutes walk away from the office.
When the Multistorey becomes full, people tend to park on the road outside the office (see pic below) and some tend to not even bother in the multistorey and just park on the road regardless.
This pic depicts the general surroundings: (pic is rather old bu now multistorey on the right hand side)
The yellow lines represent where people park on said road, where there are no double yellow lines, nor is there any signage whatsoever stating that people should not park there. Oviosuly the Highway Code comes into action when parking on junctions, causing an obstruction etc. So, as long as you have a road legal car, parking there is completely within the Law. However, the powers that be in the company have been moaning and groaning since we moved into the building that people are not to park on the main road on the basis that it is a Health and Safety hazard. Granted there are some numpties that park on the junction and on a corner etc, but the majority of people do park sensibly and more importantly legally. There have been a few instances where people have parked stupidly and have blocked lorries etc trying to get past.
We have just received this email: (any reference referring to the name of the building and/or company have been removed)
Despite many attempts to ask people to use their common sense and not park on the road outside the Office, we have had little impact. At the same time, others who are parking in the correct areas are getting increasingly annoyed at the risk to their own safety of the reduced visibility and reduced width of the road caused by people’s inconsiderate parking. We have also had complaints from other occupants on the business park and damage has been caused to at least one car.
We are sorry to have to formalize this, but many people are saying how unfair it is that they are parking correctly while others are not following the rules. There is plenty of parking available. In fact often people are parking on the road before 8am when there is still lots of parking in the multi storey, so we can only conclude that people are doing so because they don’t want to walk any distance at all from their car to the building. This isn’t acceptable – saving yourself five minutes’ walk compared to harming another driver, pedestrian or impeding an emergency vehicle is a no-brainer.
As a result, with effect from Monday 7 November, parking anywhere on the road outside the office even where there are no yellow lines will be forbidden. So, even though there are no parking restrictions, we are making this a company health & safety rule applying across the company for the safety of everyone.
From 7 November, it will be forbidden for anyone who works in or visits The office to park on the road. If anyone does, they will be asked to move their car and to make up the time they have lost in doing so. If anyone refuses, or is abusive to anyone who asks them to move (including the Facilities porters) then we will consider taking disciplinary action. Similarly, we will consider disciplinary action against people who persistently park on the road and create a hazard.
The parking map is attached - if anyone is in any doubt about any of the locations, the porters are happy to show you where the parking is found.
Remember, from 7th November, anyone who parks their car on the road will be asked to move it and you may face disciplinary action if you don’t comply.
What I want to know is, how can they impose this rule and how will they enforce it? How can anything that occurs on a public highway be included in the Health and Safety at Work? It will be intersting to see if someone is stubborn and takes it all the way to disciplinary just to see what the outcome will be.
Over to you PH
ETA - I will not be held liable for spelling or gramatical errors on the grounds of diminished responsibility.
Edited by Mikeyplum on Tuesday 1st November 16:22
Edited by Mikeyplum on Tuesday 1st November 16:47
Ean218 said:
Seems a very reasonable action by the employer (whose name beginning with L is still in the OP).
It is no different to having a general t&c forbidding employees to bring the company into disrepute by their actions outside work.
Ahhah! Well spotted and duely removed!It is no different to having a general t&c forbidding employees to bring the company into disrepute by their actions outside work.
I understand the point you are making, but how can parking Legally on a public highway bring the company into disrepute?
I'd move this to Speed, Plod & the Law if I were you you'll probably get a much better answer.
I don't know anything about it myself but something very similar happened to a care home near my Mother in Laws. Staff were parking on a residential street much to the annoyance of all the residents. The care home has now banned all its staff from parking on the road with signs stating that any staff member parking on said road will result it disciplinary action.
I don't know anything about it myself but something very similar happened to a care home near my Mother in Laws. Staff were parking on a residential street much to the annoyance of all the residents. The care home has now banned all its staff from parking on the road with signs stating that any staff member parking on said road will result it disciplinary action.
DanielC4GP said:
I'd move this to Speed, Plod & the Law if I were you you'll probably get a much better answer.
I don't know anything about it myself but something very similar happened to a care home near my Mother in Laws. Staff were parking on a residential street much to the annoyance of all the residents. The care home has now banned all its staff from parking on the road with signs stating that any staff member parking on said road will result it disciplinary action.
Good thinking Batman!I don't know anything about it myself but something very similar happened to a care home near my Mother in Laws. Staff were parking on a residential street much to the annoyance of all the residents. The care home has now banned all its staff from parking on the road with signs stating that any staff member parking on said road will result it disciplinary action.
Mods, please can you move to SP&TL...
Cheers!
I've worked at several places where the employer has various rules about not doing stuff that reflects badly on the company written into the contract.
Things like smoking in the front of the building rather than round the back.
Not skidding sideways out of the carpark.
Keeping the car stereo down when leaving the office late at night (in a residential area).
Not swearing loudly in areas where the public can hear you.
I would guess that every employee has their registration numbers registered with the employee for access to the other carparks – so it's easy enough to check who's doing it.
Probably perfectly legal under employment law – using some phrases like 'reasonable request' and 'bringing employer into disrepute'.
Things like smoking in the front of the building rather than round the back.
Not skidding sideways out of the carpark.
Keeping the car stereo down when leaving the office late at night (in a residential area).
Not swearing loudly in areas where the public can hear you.
I would guess that every employee has their registration numbers registered with the employee for access to the other carparks – so it's easy enough to check who's doing it.
Probably perfectly legal under employment law – using some phrases like 'reasonable request' and 'bringing employer into disrepute'.
The Yellow lines are Public Highway, beyond the Blue line (to the right of) is private road belonging to another factory. When we first moved in, people used to park way around the corner on said private road. My employer then purchased signes saying "private property - no parking" signs to deter this - and it worked!
I understand under Employment Law that bringing the employer into disrepute is a no no. But parking legally on a Public Highway surely can't be held as such?
Whats the difference in parking on the next street, or the one after that? If the vehicle got traced back to the employer, then that would be classed as the same, no?
The council have stated they are not making any plans to put double yellow lines on the road 9probably beacuse they don't have the resource to enforce them). So untill they do, people parking there are well within the law IMO.
However, I have no qualifications in this matter, but I'm sure someone in the PH masses knows?
I understand under Employment Law that bringing the employer into disrepute is a no no. But parking legally on a Public Highway surely can't be held as such?
Whats the difference in parking on the next street, or the one after that? If the vehicle got traced back to the employer, then that would be classed as the same, no?
The council have stated they are not making any plans to put double yellow lines on the road 9probably beacuse they don't have the resource to enforce them). So untill they do, people parking there are well within the law IMO.
However, I have no qualifications in this matter, but I'm sure someone in the PH masses knows?
I don't know anything about employment law.
But this strikes me as a bit odd. Driving to and from work, you're (presumably) not on company time. If you were driving around during the day as part of your job, I can see why an employer may be justified in stipulating how you use your car. But this isn't that case.
An employer could, I suppose, legitimately claim a need to restrict what you can do in your free time or with your property - most obviously, commit a criminal offence in your free time, or bring the employer into disrepute, and you're out. But this isn't that case either.
Say your neighbour didn't like how you parked in the street outside your house (no parking restrictions). Or someone sent a complaint to your employer about how you had parked legally but inconsiderately in the town centre (just assume the complainer can connect the car to you to your employer). Can your employer really stipulate as part of your employment how you should park in your free time, when what you're doing is not unlawful and does not impact on the employer? Seems implausible to me.
The only additional factor here is that the employer is saying that parking outside its offices creates a H&S risk (presumably to its employees) and/or obstructs large vehicles visiting its premises. It seems unlikely that *every* car parked on the public highway generates these problems - so what is the justification for a blanket ban on parking? If the is anything to those points, I would have thought the employer should be taking it up with the local council with a view to getting yellow lines painted on the road.
Trouble is, the only way to test it is to park, get disciplined, get sacked, then get an employment tribunal to look at it. The employer knows this, so to all intents and purposes they win, hands down.
But this strikes me as a bit odd. Driving to and from work, you're (presumably) not on company time. If you were driving around during the day as part of your job, I can see why an employer may be justified in stipulating how you use your car. But this isn't that case.
An employer could, I suppose, legitimately claim a need to restrict what you can do in your free time or with your property - most obviously, commit a criminal offence in your free time, or bring the employer into disrepute, and you're out. But this isn't that case either.
Say your neighbour didn't like how you parked in the street outside your house (no parking restrictions). Or someone sent a complaint to your employer about how you had parked legally but inconsiderately in the town centre (just assume the complainer can connect the car to you to your employer). Can your employer really stipulate as part of your employment how you should park in your free time, when what you're doing is not unlawful and does not impact on the employer? Seems implausible to me.
The only additional factor here is that the employer is saying that parking outside its offices creates a H&S risk (presumably to its employees) and/or obstructs large vehicles visiting its premises. It seems unlikely that *every* car parked on the public highway generates these problems - so what is the justification for a blanket ban on parking? If the is anything to those points, I would have thought the employer should be taking it up with the local council with a view to getting yellow lines painted on the road.
Trouble is, the only way to test it is to park, get disciplined, get sacked, then get an employment tribunal to look at it. The employer knows this, so to all intents and purposes they win, hands down.
Greg66 said:
I don't know anything about employment law.
But this strikes me as a bit odd. Driving to and from work, you're (presumably) not on company time. If you were driving around during the day as part of your job, I can see why an employer may be justified in stipulating how you use your car. But this isn't that case.
An employer could, I suppose, legitimately claim a need to restrict what you can do in your free time or with your property - most obviously, commit a criminal offence in your free time, or bring the employer into disrepute, and you're out. But this isn't that case either.
Say your neighbour didn't like how you parked in the street outside your house (no parking restrictions). Or someone sent a complaint to your employer about how you had parked legally but inconsiderately in the town centre (just assume the complainer can connect the car to you to your employer). Can your employer really stipulate as part of your employment how you should park in your free time, when what you're doing is not unlawful and does not impact on the employer? Seems implausible to me.
The only additional factor here is that the employer is saying that parking outside its offices creates a H&S risk (presumably to its employees) and/or obstructs large vehicles visiting its premises. It seems unlikely that *every* car parked on the public highway generates these problems - so what is the justification for a blanket ban on parking? If the is anything to those points, I would have thought the employer should be taking it up with the local council with a view to getting yellow lines painted on the road.
Trouble is, the only way to test it is to park, get disciplined, get sacked, then get an employment tribunal to look at it. The employer knows this, so to all intents and purposes they win, hands down.
This is precisely my point. How can they regulate your behaviour outside of work when it comes to parking. If I go to town after work and pick up a parking ticket, will I get disciplined at work? (if they trace me back to the employer). It just doesn't sit right with me. But this strikes me as a bit odd. Driving to and from work, you're (presumably) not on company time. If you were driving around during the day as part of your job, I can see why an employer may be justified in stipulating how you use your car. But this isn't that case.
An employer could, I suppose, legitimately claim a need to restrict what you can do in your free time or with your property - most obviously, commit a criminal offence in your free time, or bring the employer into disrepute, and you're out. But this isn't that case either.
Say your neighbour didn't like how you parked in the street outside your house (no parking restrictions). Or someone sent a complaint to your employer about how you had parked legally but inconsiderately in the town centre (just assume the complainer can connect the car to you to your employer). Can your employer really stipulate as part of your employment how you should park in your free time, when what you're doing is not unlawful and does not impact on the employer? Seems implausible to me.
The only additional factor here is that the employer is saying that parking outside its offices creates a H&S risk (presumably to its employees) and/or obstructs large vehicles visiting its premises. It seems unlikely that *every* car parked on the public highway generates these problems - so what is the justification for a blanket ban on parking? If the is anything to those points, I would have thought the employer should be taking it up with the local council with a view to getting yellow lines painted on the road.
Trouble is, the only way to test it is to park, get disciplined, get sacked, then get an employment tribunal to look at it. The employer knows this, so to all intents and purposes they win, hands down.
They have contacted the local council, but as I said in an earlier post, they are unwilling due to the costs of implementing and enforcing the parking restrictions.
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