Ive got a NIP for Dangerous Driving
Discussion
A bit long this one ...I am an employee and owner/proprietor of a private limited company. A NIP has been received as one of my vehicles was involved in “an incident” for which the police are considering a prosecution for “dangerous/careless” driving. The NIP states that the offence was on the AXXX road but does not give a specific location / village etc. The offence is alleged to have taken place on 13th June 2004 (Sunday) at 09:15am.
The NIP was received within 8 days of the alleged offence. Several of my family and friends often drive the company’s cars.
Firstly I can categorically state that I was in bed and my car was in my locked garage at that time. I have several family members that can corroborate this. I did not leave the house that day until after 10am. The road in question is 3 minutes from my home.
Neither I nor my family members can recall any “incident” on the day in question.
As a result, I can say that at the time of their alleged incident I was not driving the vehicle and no-one else was.
For the record, my car is a very distinguished high performance and rare sports car and I drive on the road in question several times a day most days of the week.
Any ideas ......... regarding both the NIP and the further likihood of prosecution
The NIP was received within 8 days of the alleged offence. Several of my family and friends often drive the company’s cars.
Firstly I can categorically state that I was in bed and my car was in my locked garage at that time. I have several family members that can corroborate this. I did not leave the house that day until after 10am. The road in question is 3 minutes from my home.
Neither I nor my family members can recall any “incident” on the day in question.
As a result, I can say that at the time of their alleged incident I was not driving the vehicle and no-one else was.
For the record, my car is a very distinguished high performance and rare sports car and I drive on the road in question several times a day most days of the week.
Any ideas ......... regarding both the NIP and the further likihood of prosecution
sounds.....curious.....
I woudl suggest, assuming you're telling all you know here, that you either call or go in person to the police station that issued the NIP and ask for more details as you can prove you were in bed and your pride and joy was in the garage.
That said..
1) Your an employee AND owner of the company? 2) You state that several people drive the cars, bu then go on to mention it's rare 'exotica' - I assume that they dont drive that? In which case Im slightly confused as to the relevance.....
I woudl suggest, assuming you're telling all you know here, that you either call or go in person to the police station that issued the NIP and ask for more details as you can prove you were in bed and your pride and joy was in the garage.
That said..
1) Your an employee AND owner of the company? 2) You state that several people drive the cars, bu then go on to mention it's rare 'exotica' - I assume that they dont drive that? In which case Im slightly confused as to the relevance.....
Igotanip,
It could be for various things covered under Dangerous Driving..For example excessive speed is 'dangerous driving'.
It would be interesting to know:
1) If it's caught on camera
2) Witnessed by a police officer, or
3) A member of the public has complained about you.
Its not uncommon for registration plates to have been made up by 'scrotes' when they've seen a certain vehicle and then displayed them on their own vehicle to evade prosecution when they're 'pissing about'.
It could be for various things covered under Dangerous Driving..For example excessive speed is 'dangerous driving'.
It would be interesting to know:
1) If it's caught on camera
2) Witnessed by a police officer, or
3) A member of the public has complained about you.
Its not uncommon for registration plates to have been made up by 'scrotes' when they've seen a certain vehicle and then displayed them on their own vehicle to evade prosecution when they're 'pissing about'.
Nightmare said:That's very plausible. If you are the sole or principal shareholder of a private Ltd company yet draw a salary from it then you are also an employee.
Your an employee AND owner of the company?
I don't see what relevance it has here, or what relevance you querying it has either.
Streetcop said:
Igotanip,
It could be for various things covered under Dangerous Driving..For example excessive speed is 'dangerous driving'.
It would be interesting to know:
1) If it's caught on camera
2) Witnessed by a police officer, or
3) A member of the public has complained about you.
Its not uncommon for registration plates to have been made up by 'scrotes' when they've seen a certain vehicle and then displayed them on their own vehicle to evade prosecution when they're 'pissing about'.
Mate of mine (a BIB) reckons that the retired owner of the Devon Registered 944 which in the early 90's was involved in various bank jobs and who was woken up on more than one occassion in the middle of the night by WEST MERCIA police, may have been a victim of cloning.
And my father in law had his plates stolen whilst in the PUB and when stopped on the way home, the BIB explained that they must now expect a Blue Cavalier to start being involved in various criminal activities.
As I understand it in the UK, you are innocent until it is proved beyond reasonable doubt that you are guilty. If both you and said car were in bed, then cloning may provide a reasonable explanation, although you may need a decent brief.
A decent brief should come with you to station and request to see a senior officer as it seems a CRIME has been committed (Cloning) and you are the unlucky victim. (A bet you've upset loads of people - If I were to attach fake numberplate to my Push Bike and ride through the London Congestion charge cameras I could keep myself busy with a list of people I hate - But I don't cause that would be bad)
By the sound of it, with just a NOIP and no other paperwork received, it looks like someone has taken a number and made a complaint about driving standard of a motor vehicle. As a result and to ensure they can follow up NOIP has been served on RC (does it specifically mention "proceedings against the driver of m/car Reg No ?????? of which you are the Registered Keeper?") so that part of the law complied with even though driver is not named.
BiB now has amount of time to take necessary statements to prove a case from the complainant/witnesses before coming to see you as a possible defendant (note possible). Ten days now since incident so some contact should have been made or is imminently due. They will not go to Court without your account.
Problem is that some Forces having served a NOIP, and enquiries reveal no offence, do not send a letter "withdrawing" the NOIP, a common courtesy, but one not required by law.
You can categorically say car in garage at material time so starting to point at incorrect VRM recorded by complainant/witness (if that is the case) or as others have said a cloned vehicle. Yours seems a rare motor and may not tally with make mentioned to BiB.
Suggest, and its up to you, contacting the Office of origin of the NOIP to see what it is all about. If things start to get heavy - professional advice.
However not the first time a vehicle has been taken without the knowledge of the owner, involved in an incident and returned to base. Because of "the incident" the purpetrator keeps schtumm.
DVD
BiB now has amount of time to take necessary statements to prove a case from the complainant/witnesses before coming to see you as a possible defendant (note possible). Ten days now since incident so some contact should have been made or is imminently due. They will not go to Court without your account.
Problem is that some Forces having served a NOIP, and enquiries reveal no offence, do not send a letter "withdrawing" the NOIP, a common courtesy, but one not required by law.
You can categorically say car in garage at material time so starting to point at incorrect VRM recorded by complainant/witness (if that is the case) or as others have said a cloned vehicle. Yours seems a rare motor and may not tally with make mentioned to BiB.
Suggest, and its up to you, contacting the Office of origin of the NOIP to see what it is all about. If things start to get heavy - professional advice.
However not the first time a vehicle has been taken without the knowledge of the owner, involved in an incident and returned to base. Because of "the incident" the purpetrator keeps schtumm.
DVD
Dwight VanDriver said:
However not the first time a vehicle has been taken without the knowledge of the owner, involved in an incident and returned to base. Because of "the incident" the purpetrator keeps schtumm.
DVD
The Ferris Bueller effect I think its's called....
JonRB - no real relevance to me asking it...was just slightly confused...you have explained....ta!
The vehicle need not have been there, or any vehicle come to that. This could be a wholly fabricated report (by a civvy I hasten to add).
Just think how much more prevalent such reports will be once the police hand over all responsibility for road policing to civvies (in uniform or not)!
Streaky
Just think how much more prevalent such reports will be once the police hand over all responsibility for road policing to civvies (in uniform or not)!
Streaky
Thanks everyone .....
More info ..... Theres no way anyone was in my car at 0915 - I had guests staying over and they had to move their car away from the locked garage at 10am to let me get my car out - thats how I'm 100% certain I was not in car at said time!
So I reckon its not cameras or offduty plod or the time of offence would not be in question. likewise I doubt cloning. Its more likely that I did commit some unknown act which offended Jo Public but later in the morning and certainly not 0915am, or maybe at 0915am but on a diffrent day etc.
Tempted to sit tight till the 28 day NIP reply period almost expires and then get my company secretary to reply to the NIP saying no-one was in the car at 0915 and the car was locked up at the registered office at the time, and therfore no driver can be named.
Working on the assumption that plod must then present his evidence to the Company (RK) in order that the company can further investigate and try to identify the driver from this additional police information - this way the company secretary (me) get to see what facts plod has before the driver is named.
This may come down to an inaccurate NIP (offence was committed but not at the time specified on the NIP). I'd hope my brief would tear this apart in court - if Jo public gets the time/date of the offence wrong then how reliable can the rest of their evidence be?
If Jo public complains to police is it the policy of plod always to issue a NIP irrespective of what evidence is known?
Fed up!
More info ..... Theres no way anyone was in my car at 0915 - I had guests staying over and they had to move their car away from the locked garage at 10am to let me get my car out - thats how I'm 100% certain I was not in car at said time!
So I reckon its not cameras or offduty plod or the time of offence would not be in question. likewise I doubt cloning. Its more likely that I did commit some unknown act which offended Jo Public but later in the morning and certainly not 0915am, or maybe at 0915am but on a diffrent day etc.
Tempted to sit tight till the 28 day NIP reply period almost expires and then get my company secretary to reply to the NIP saying no-one was in the car at 0915 and the car was locked up at the registered office at the time, and therfore no driver can be named.
Working on the assumption that plod must then present his evidence to the Company (RK) in order that the company can further investigate and try to identify the driver from this additional police information - this way the company secretary (me) get to see what facts plod has before the driver is named.
This may come down to an inaccurate NIP (offence was committed but not at the time specified on the NIP). I'd hope my brief would tear this apart in court - if Jo public gets the time/date of the offence wrong then how reliable can the rest of their evidence be?
If Jo public complains to police is it the policy of plod always to issue a NIP irrespective of what evidence is known?
Fed up!
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