Advice re: personal injury claim after accident.
Discussion
Very quick explanation. Brother (was 18 at the time) had an accident last year in the snow where he understeered on a roundabout and slid (fairly slowly) into a lamppost.
He had 3 friends in the car.
The decision was made (against my advice) to scrap the car (it wasn't worth a lot) and not mention the accident to the insurance company for fear of ridiculous insurance quotes in the future. He cancelled his insurance and bought a Focus, took another insurance policy with someone else and forgot about it.
Until now.
He's had some court papers through, his passenger is claiming whiplash etc and it looks to me that it went to court on 29th November and £2,000 was the amount. I don't know the ins and outs as I am only going on what I have been told over the phone but it's stamped 29th November and attached is a statement on court headed paper. The statement reads like a fairy tale. The guy immediately had pain in his neck (which having suffered fairly major whiplash in the past I know to be bull$hit as it took a couple of days to start hurting). He took days off college (bull$hit as my bro goes to college with him and he's been fine ever since) and he's struggling to sleep, play sport etc etc.
Now stupidity aside as we can't all be level-headed, 100% law abiding citizens of Pistonheads, where does he go from here?
My parents can afford to pay it, but are wondering if this is one of perhaps 4 claims (he had 4 friends in the car) that are soon to arrive on the doormat.
My immediate thought was that if my bro (who is on an apprenticeship earning sweet FA in terms of money) is being sued, then my parents don't have to take responsibility for him at 19 years of age even though he lives under their roof. Obviously my brother can't afford to pay between £2k and £8k himself, then the court would award the third party the money but my brother would have to pay it off at some stupidly small amount each week?
So if he says "yeah, fine, £2k it is, but how am I going to pay?" then the court will make an assessment?
I think the whole things stings a little bit because it's his (ex) mate taking the piss. He comes from a s
te background and a family of spongers.
He had 3 friends in the car.
The decision was made (against my advice) to scrap the car (it wasn't worth a lot) and not mention the accident to the insurance company for fear of ridiculous insurance quotes in the future. He cancelled his insurance and bought a Focus, took another insurance policy with someone else and forgot about it.
Until now.
He's had some court papers through, his passenger is claiming whiplash etc and it looks to me that it went to court on 29th November and £2,000 was the amount. I don't know the ins and outs as I am only going on what I have been told over the phone but it's stamped 29th November and attached is a statement on court headed paper. The statement reads like a fairy tale. The guy immediately had pain in his neck (which having suffered fairly major whiplash in the past I know to be bull$hit as it took a couple of days to start hurting). He took days off college (bull$hit as my bro goes to college with him and he's been fine ever since) and he's struggling to sleep, play sport etc etc.
Now stupidity aside as we can't all be level-headed, 100% law abiding citizens of Pistonheads, where does he go from here?
My parents can afford to pay it, but are wondering if this is one of perhaps 4 claims (he had 4 friends in the car) that are soon to arrive on the doormat.
My immediate thought was that if my bro (who is on an apprenticeship earning sweet FA in terms of money) is being sued, then my parents don't have to take responsibility for him at 19 years of age even though he lives under their roof. Obviously my brother can't afford to pay between £2k and £8k himself, then the court would award the third party the money but my brother would have to pay it off at some stupidly small amount each week?
So if he says "yeah, fine, £2k it is, but how am I going to pay?" then the court will make an assessment?
I think the whole things stings a little bit because it's his (ex) mate taking the piss. He comes from a s
te background and a family of spongers.If it has been dealt with in his absence, then he can always file a statutory declaration to get it re-opened. This is going to get horrendously messy though.
First off, was the lamppost damaged or replaced? I know this sounds a bit stupid; but I think the best thing to do is going to be to declare the incident to the insurers. If there's no damage to the lamppost it makes it not quite so bad, especially given that there was no evidence of injury. If there was damage it looks a lot worse.
First off, was the lamppost damaged or replaced? I know this sounds a bit stupid; but I think the best thing to do is going to be to declare the incident to the insurers. If there's no damage to the lamppost it makes it not quite so bad, especially given that there was no evidence of injury. If there was damage it looks a lot worse.
I don't need the obvious lectures re stupidity as believe me, I've told him over and over. He's a young lad, earning a very modest wage and doesn't see the bigger picture.
As far as I know the lamppost was fine.
I don't think he wants to get involved in the 'did the accident even happen, wink wink' argument and even if he did, my parents will certainly not be supporting him with that.
It happened, but his [i]friends[i/] were NOT injured.
I guess what I need to know is what happens given my brother cannot afford to pay the £2k + court fees etc?
Surely parents cannot be forced to sort it out.
£2k, £8k, it's not an issue of money. I got ripped off for an iPhone on the PH classifieds a couple of years ago, I'm still getting the money back at £2 a week after successfully taking the 17 year old scumbag to court. I'm fairly confident he's laughing at me. My parents will pay the money, but we'd quite like it to be at a rate that infuriates the lad who is clearly taking the piss.
5mph, bump into a lamppost = sleepless nights?
Ridiculous.
As far as I know the lamppost was fine.
I don't think he wants to get involved in the 'did the accident even happen, wink wink' argument and even if he did, my parents will certainly not be supporting him with that.
It happened, but his [i]friends[i/] were NOT injured.
I guess what I need to know is what happens given my brother cannot afford to pay the £2k + court fees etc?
Surely parents cannot be forced to sort it out.
£2k, £8k, it's not an issue of money. I got ripped off for an iPhone on the PH classifieds a couple of years ago, I'm still getting the money back at £2 a week after successfully taking the 17 year old scumbag to court. I'm fairly confident he's laughing at me. My parents will pay the money, but we'd quite like it to be at a rate that infuriates the lad who is clearly taking the piss.
5mph, bump into a lamppost = sleepless nights?
Ridiculous.
Fortunately for your brother, insurance companies cannot decline third party personal injury claims. Your brother has to get onto his insurance co straight away, advise them of the accident and send them all the papers he has recived. They will then deal with the third party claim in whatever way they think best (almost certainly settle it) and deal with any further claims from the other passengers.
The insurance company will be furious (rightly so) that their ability to fight the third party allegations has been severly hampered by your brother's failure to advise them of the claim at the time. They may well sue your brother for their outlay, he can cross that bridge if he comes to it.
This is the ONLY way forward. The next claim he gets from another of the passengers could be for a hell of a lot more.
This is a lesson for all, if you have an accident involving third parties, be they passengers or whatever, always report it to insurers.
The insurance company will be furious (rightly so) that their ability to fight the third party allegations has been severly hampered by your brother's failure to advise them of the claim at the time. They may well sue your brother for their outlay, he can cross that bridge if he comes to it.
This is the ONLY way forward. The next claim he gets from another of the passengers could be for a hell of a lot more.
This is a lesson for all, if you have an accident involving third parties, be they passengers or whatever, always report it to insurers.
AB, did your brother know it was going to court in November? . . . . . .would suggest calling the old insurance co or the new one and seeing if legal cover was included in the cover purchased 
Whatever you do, dont be tempted to go round to the "friends" house and talk to him as it will only make things worse
Whatever you do, dont be tempted to go round to the "friends" house and talk to him as it will only make things worse
U T said:
Fortunately for your brother, insurance companies cannot decline third party personal injury claims. Your brother has to get onto his insurance co straight away, advise them of the accident and send them all the papers he has recived. They will then deal with the third party claim in whatever way they think best (almost certainly settle it) and deal with any further claims from the other passengers.
The insurance company will be furious (rightly so) that their ability to fight the third party allegations has been severly hampered by your brother's failure to advise them of the claim at the time. They may well sue your brother for their outlay, he can cross that bridge if he comes to it.
This is the ONLY way forward. The next claim he gets from another of the passengers could be for a hell of a lot more.
This is a lesson for all, if you have an accident involving third parties, be they passengers or whatever, always report it to insurers.
This is the best advice you have had thusfar. He had insurance which is a good start - if he had none, caused injuries without a third party to claim from, the MID pays out, and then they go after him. He does have an obligation to inform his insurers and he must do straight away. Your parents have no liability whatsoever and must not feel coerced into paying anything - please note that a £2,000 injury payout will equate to a far higher legal bill. You must also be aware that there may be 'future complications' suffered by the injured party/parties which may have to be covered.The insurance company will be furious (rightly so) that their ability to fight the third party allegations has been severly hampered by your brother's failure to advise them of the claim at the time. They may well sue your brother for their outlay, he can cross that bridge if he comes to it.
This is the ONLY way forward. The next claim he gets from another of the passengers could be for a hell of a lot more.
This is a lesson for all, if you have an accident involving third parties, be they passengers or whatever, always report it to insurers.
Believe me, the chap's solicitors will be far happier going after an insurance company rather than an 18 year old lad. Also his insurance company is highly unlikely to chase your brother for reimbursement - the outlay is just too great for the effort, and these are very shaky legal grounds IMHO. There is also now the positive that they now know about the claim! Even so, the solicitors should have been able to get your brother's insurance details - he definitely has cover doesn't he?
I have seen far worse than this and insurers are getting rather used to it I'm afraid. Your brother is far from being the first to be caught out like this, and with the current climate of injuries = cash, will not be the last.
Contact the insurers, tell them what has happened and let them deal with things. He will lose his No Claims Bonus, may have to pay an additional premium assuming the policy has renewed since then, and may have to declare a non-disclosed claim with extenuating circumstances.
It is not the end of the world.
Codswallop said:
Fair enough OP. Given that your brother is not a minor, I cannot see how responsibility for his actions can be passed onto your parents, but probably when your brother's wages improve, he would be expected to start repaying the compensation at a higher rate.
Your username is misleading! Thanks for the info.The above were my original thoughts. Let my brother fend of himself and help him out in terms of £ when it was needed. They made a mistake a fair few years ago, a son of theirs was charged with 'undue care and attention' and in court the mags asked him if he was willing to take the fine for them. He accepted and the fine was £7,000. Only on appeal was this reduced to £600 based on the income of their son.
(Figures above are estimates based on my limited memory).
AndrewW-G said:
AB, did your brother know it was going to court in November? . . . . . .would suggest calling the old insurance co or the new one and seeing if legal cover was included in the cover purchased
Whatever you do, dont be tempted to go round to the "friends" house and talk to him as it will only make things worse
I've disclosed here all that I know. I've been away for the last few weeks and only landed early yesterday morning to hear about this. My first thought was "little prick, I'll show him..." but it won't help, you're right. Whatever you do, dont be tempted to go round to the "friends" house and talk to him as it will only make things worse
Mike Rob said:
This is the best advice you have had thusfar. He had insurance which is a good start - if he had none, caused injuries without a third party to claim from, the MID pays out, and then they go after him. He does have an obligation to inform his insurers and he must do straight away. Your parents have no liability whatsoever and must not feel coerced into paying anything - please note that a £2,000 injury payout will equate to a far higher legal bill. You must also be aware that there may be 'future complications' suffered by the injured party/parties which may have to be covered.
Believe me, the chap's solicitors will be far happier going after an insurance company rather than an 18 year old lad. Also his insurance company is highly unlikely to chase your brother for reimbursement - the outlay is just too great for the effort, and these are very shaky legal grounds IMHO. There is also now the positive that they now know about the claim! Even so, the solicitors should have been able to get your brother's insurance details - he definitely has cover doesn't he?
I have seen far worse than this and insurers are getting rather used to it I'm afraid. Your brother is far from being the first to be caught out like this, and with the current climate of injuries = cash, will not be the last.
Contact the insurers, tell them what has happened and let them deal with things. He will lose his No Claims Bonus, may have to pay an additional premium assuming the policy has renewed since then, and may have to declare a non-disclosed claim with extenuating circumstances.
It is not the end of the world.
Thanks Mike. I've passed this on and it puts their minds at ease.Believe me, the chap's solicitors will be far happier going after an insurance company rather than an 18 year old lad. Also his insurance company is highly unlikely to chase your brother for reimbursement - the outlay is just too great for the effort, and these are very shaky legal grounds IMHO. There is also now the positive that they now know about the claim! Even so, the solicitors should have been able to get your brother's insurance details - he definitely has cover doesn't he?
I have seen far worse than this and insurers are getting rather used to it I'm afraid. Your brother is far from being the first to be caught out like this, and with the current climate of injuries = cash, will not be the last.
Contact the insurers, tell them what has happened and let them deal with things. He will lose his No Claims Bonus, may have to pay an additional premium assuming the policy has renewed since then, and may have to declare a non-disclosed claim with extenuating circumstances.
It is not the end of the world.
The day started like this;
- Letter arrived;
- Oh s
t, we didn't tell the insurance company;- How many more of these will we have;
- This may cost us £8,000;
- It may be more than £8,000;
- {Dad} I'll have to swallow this;
- There was nothing wrong with the lad;
- What can we do?
Wow, and lousy timing as well.
I'm afraid that your brother WILL have to seek professional advice given he did not declare this to his insurers and they do want to make good their losses if they have reason to do so. Try to find out if his insurance cover includes legal cover. I do hope he bought it if it was offered to him.
I am sorry to say, that it is going to be very messy.
I'm afraid that your brother WILL have to seek professional advice given he did not declare this to his insurers and they do want to make good their losses if they have reason to do so. Try to find out if his insurance cover includes legal cover. I do hope he bought it if it was offered to him.
I am sorry to say, that it is going to be very messy.
V8Triumph said:
Could this not result in your brother ending up with a CCJ should your parents decide not to pay? Something to think about.
How will the OP's brother end up with a CCJ if he explains the situation to his insurers. Insurers will settle the court judgement, they have to pay third party claims regardless.The insurers may come after his brother to recover. OP's brother was in breach of policy terms requiring him to report all claims asap. But given his age, I doubt they will. Insurance companies that cover young drivers charge high premiums, and in return for that they know they will get a lot of claims and many policyholders acting like idiots, because that's what 18 y/olds do. If he goes to his insurers with his tail between his legs and says "look, I did the wrong thing, I realise now I should have let you know but I had no idea things would turn out this way and I genuinely thought no more would come of it", then my guess is that insurers will just swallow it.
Nick3point2 said:
How can he have whiplash if there wasn't a crash?
That's where I'd be but there are three other people in the car. Not quite his word against judas'. At 19 I'd take the CCJ, he won't be getting a mortgage anytime soon and a CCJ will stop him getting loads of debt buying an expensive car. Wrong way of doing things but silver lining and all that!
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