RE: Camera Detectors to be Banned?
Friday 16th July 2004
Camera Detectors to be Banned?
Government increasingly keen on outlawing speed trap warning devices
Officials at the Department for Transport have reiterated their desire to outlaw speed camera detection devices. They are looking into banning detectors believing that drivers are using them to flout speed limits rather than to adhere to them.
The Government's policy flies in the face of some research which suggests that drivers using the devices in fact have fewer accidents than those that don't.
Outlawing the devices would bring the UK in line with France and Ireland who are amongst the countries that don't permit the devices to be used.
With cameras only being placed at accident black spots (no, really they are) some drivers will no doubt take exception to having their warning systems outlawed.
Drafting legislation could also prove difficult. Whilst laser and radar detectors may be easy to outlaw the GPS style of device could prove a minefield. Proving that a device is warning of a speed trap rather than an accident blackspot or 'place of interest' might render new laws fairly worthless.
Discussion
Skipping over the fact that Governments can make anything they like against the law, I can see them struggling with laser detectors and banning GPS waypoint databases. I imagine they just have to define such things by intent rather than by technology, although that makes the court cases very messy.
(Oh, and the detectors don't transmit. At least, not intentionally.)
(Oh, and the detectors don't transmit. At least, not intentionally.)
I use an Origin b2. I don't use it so that I can drive faster or recklessly, I use it to help try to preserve my licence.
It only takes a momentary lapse, taking your eyes off the speedo for a few moments, overtaking or making progress past traffic (when you're concentrating on the road ahead) when you may miss a camera and another 3 points hit your licence. You may not even realise, in many of today's cars, that you're speeding at the time.
If a speed detector helps you to keep your licence, then use it!
It only takes a momentary lapse, taking your eyes off the speedo for a few moments, overtaking or making progress past traffic (when you're concentrating on the road ahead) when you may miss a camera and another 3 points hit your licence. You may not even realise, in many of today's cars, that you're speeding at the time.
If a speed detector helps you to keep your licence, then use it!
The Times said:
DEVICES which detect or jam speed cameras are to be banned because
of concerns that drivers are exploiting them to drive over the speed
limit without fear of being caught.
More than 100,000 drivers have installed the devices and dozens of
companies supply them. The market is growing rapidly in response to
the huge rise in speed camera penalties.
Two million tickets were issued last year and police expect to hand
out three million this year.
The Government plans to include the ban in a forthcoming road safety
Bill. The penalty for carrying a device in a vehicle has yet to be
determined but the maximum fine is likely to be £1,000 and drivers
will also have up to six points added to their licences.
A Department for Transport document outlining the proposed ban
states that it will "prohibit the carriage of devices that either
actively inhibit the proper function of a speed camera or detect the
presence of functioning speed cameras (as opposed to dummy
housings)".
Devices that use satellite-positioning systems to give drivers early
warning of a speed camera will remain legal.
Ministers believe there is no problem with drivers simply being
reminded of an approaching camera, which should be highly visible
anyway under rules introduced two years ago.
The ban will instead focus on devices which tell drivers whether or
not a yellow speed camera housing contains a live camera.
Many housings are dummies because police forces have only a limited
number of cameras that they rotate in their enforcement sites.
Drivers are able to speed past many camera housings because their
detectors fail to bleep or flash, indicating that the housings are
empty.
Ministers also want to prevent drivers from evading detection by
police officers armed with speed guns. Most forces supplement their
fixed cameras with "mobile enforcement" as an extra deterrent.
The ban would bring Britain into line with several other European
countries which have outlawed camera detectors, including France,
Belgium, Greece, Austria, Turkey, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Ireland
and Norway. In Luxembourg the maximum penalty is a prison sentence
of between eight days and three years. The Republic of Ireland also
deals harshly with offenders and a six-month prison sentence is
possible.
Until 1999, the devices were believed to be illegal in Britain under
the 1948 Wireless and Telegraphy Act. But a test case established
that radar and laser detectors were not covered by the Act because
they did not interfere with the signal.
Road safety groups welcomed the plans for a ban, saying it would
stop drivers from believing they could speed with impunity.
Rob Gifford, director of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for
Transport Safety, said: "This is a long overdue closing of a legal
loophole.
"Speed camera detectors should not be needed by law-abiding drivers:
a competent driver is always aware of the speed limit and can assess
the speed at which the vehicle is travelling. I am glad that at last
the Government is taking action."
But the RAC Foundation said that detectors were a useful tool for
high mileage drivers who would risk being sacked if they lost their
licences after getting four speed camera penalties.
Edmund King, the foundation's director, said: "Some fleet drivers
fit these devices for quite legitimate reasons. "When driving 40,000
miles per year it is relatively easy to stray above certain speed
limits, so these devices act as a reminder to slow down.
"Will drivers who have bought these legal devices in good faith be
compensated if they are made illegal to use?" A MORI survey
commissioned by the Drivers Technology Association found that 60 per
cent of those who used camera detectors said that they had become
safer drivers since purchasing the devices and three quarters said
they had become more aware of speed limits.
FLASH GADGETS
There are 5,000 fixed and mobile camera sites
Speed camera fines generate £68 million annually, of which £54
million is spent on running costs
The Government claims that speed cameras save 100 lives every year
The proportion of vehicles speeding excessively (15mph more than the
speed limit) has fallen by 80 per cent at fixed camera sites
However, this drops to 28 per cent at mobile camera sites
There are several different types of speed camera:
Specs, which calculates a car's average speed between two points
Truvelo, which takes a picture of the front of the car
Gatso camera, the most common, found all over Britain
Accident casualties at 743 camera locations have increased rather
than decreased, a new study shows
This year almost three million speeding penalties are expected to be
issued, up from 260,000 in 1996
Women's speeding offences have risen by four percentage points in
the past five years, yet still constitute only 17 per cent of the
total
The number of traffic police has fallen by 11 per cent since 1996
Home Office guidelines state that 15 per cent of cameras can be
placed at places other than accident blackspots
The A537 from Macclesfield to Buxton is the most dangerous road in
England. There are no speed cameras on this road
who cares - all my detection equipment is hidden - they would have to strip my car to find - which is fairly unlikely !
If it happens it's more to do with the fact that they want to deter joe public from buying them
My 60 yr neighbour bought a detector a few months ago - because he wanted to protect his licience from the ongoing war against the public who drive for the most part within the speed limits.
It's pretty plan to see that the public wave of discontent is growing - and I think the press are starting to support it as well
If it happens it's more to do with the fact that they want to deter joe public from buying them
My 60 yr neighbour bought a detector a few months ago - because he wanted to protect his licience from the ongoing war against the public who drive for the most part within the speed limits.
It's pretty plan to see that the public wave of discontent is growing - and I think the press are starting to support it as well
I've never owned one and not really thought of doing so...I have many reasons...the main one being I think it gives you a false sense of security and I think it's easy to get caught out...whether it be vascar marks or whatever....
Best to rely on knowledge of the area and if you can't do that, common sense..
Street
Best to rely on knowledge of the area and if you can't do that, common sense..
Street
Once again, the UK government shows contemptuous disregard for both common sense and the wishes of the people in whose name they govern.
Common sense suggests that any device that gets motorists to slow down at "black spots" is a good thing. (Do the police prefer motorists to speed?) And democracy demands that a passive device monitoring a public radio frequency WITHOUT interfering with public safety (see: above) or national security should be legal. A UK citizen can monitor police, emergency and air traffic radio signals but NOT speed cameras?
This jihad against speeders continues to erode public confidence in both the system and those entrusted with policing it. And for what end? The UK has the world's second safest roads-- and did so before a single speed camera was installed.
Cynics say the cameras are merely revenue-raisers. Call me a conspiracy fantasist, but I believe the reason behind their proliferation is far more insidious: the on-going campaign by the powers-that-be to use ever-increasing levels electronic surveillance to keep people subsurvient to the government.
England has more government surveillance cameras per head of population than any other country in the world. England? The birthplace of democracy? That's not right.
Common sense suggests that any device that gets motorists to slow down at "black spots" is a good thing. (Do the police prefer motorists to speed?) And democracy demands that a passive device monitoring a public radio frequency WITHOUT interfering with public safety (see: above) or national security should be legal. A UK citizen can monitor police, emergency and air traffic radio signals but NOT speed cameras?
This jihad against speeders continues to erode public confidence in both the system and those entrusted with policing it. And for what end? The UK has the world's second safest roads-- and did so before a single speed camera was installed.
Cynics say the cameras are merely revenue-raisers. Call me a conspiracy fantasist, but I believe the reason behind their proliferation is far more insidious: the on-going campaign by the powers-that-be to use ever-increasing levels electronic surveillance to keep people subsurvient to the government.
England has more government surveillance cameras per head of population than any other country in the world. England? The birthplace of democracy? That's not right.
Thing is, this device "warns" of devices that record your speed. Since we all know that they are placed in accident blackspots, then they'll slow you down.
Since I could drive at the legal limits all day everyday and have one of these devices, then it's only effect would be to make me extra aware and vigilant at accident blackspots and such.
Why on earth they could be banned for a potential use is beyond me.
Ban all knives since some people may use them to stab people!
Ban all cars with a top speed over 60mph since some people may try and speed and kill people...
Typical government bollocks
Dave
Since I could drive at the legal limits all day everyday and have one of these devices, then it's only effect would be to make me extra aware and vigilant at accident blackspots and such.
Why on earth they could be banned for a potential use is beyond me.
Ban all knives since some people may use them to stab people!
Ban all cars with a top speed over 60mph since some people may try and speed and kill people...
Typical government bollocks
Dave
In that case may I suggest you read and take the advice in the following website:
www.btimes.co.za/98/1018/btmoney/money04.htm
Street
www.btimes.co.za/98/1018/btmoney/money04.htm
Street
Mine's in the bin anyway (the detector, that is.)
Like Arnie in Commando, I stay down wind of the detector brigade and trust to old fashioned cunning and double bluff.
Since my average speed on the homeward commute has been inexorably creeping skywards in recent months, I need a frickin' cloaking device, not some useless Pifco alarm clock on my dash which can't be heard anyway over the usual racket c/o the boys Lemmy or Wagner.
Like Arnie in Commando, I stay down wind of the detector brigade and trust to old fashioned cunning and double bluff.
Since my average speed on the homeward commute has been inexorably creeping skywards in recent months, I need a frickin' cloaking device, not some useless Pifco alarm clock on my dash which can't be heard anyway over the usual racket c/o the boys Lemmy or Wagner.
zumbruk said:
God forbid that people should have an opinion, or think that the law is wrong, eh?
OOOoooo!!! Settle down...you'll bring your milk back....
I'm talking about slagging the country off...If people hate the UK so much...it only fills a small part of the Earth...there are other places to reside...OK?
Street
I am investigating Australia!
The thought of Blair (WoMD) Brown (Chancellor of Extortion) or Howard (Spitting Image Slug) or the Ginger Scottish Twat running the country means life will only get worse.
An example.
I had my front number plate "fall off" and got a Vehicle rectification from a Traffic cop. Went into local cop shop last night to show insurance docs. Arrived at 18.55, one person in front of me and I was eventually seen at 19:40. Meantime some scumback comes in to "sign on" and he is seen immediately!
The sooner I can leave this scum ridden numpty country the better. The government should be run by the people for the people not what we have had for the past 20 years.
They will ban smoking in pubs soon as the have in Ireland even though the Irish people don't want it. We won't be able to drink more than 3 units a night, 'cos alcohol is bad for you.
Vive la revolution.....
The thought of Blair (WoMD) Brown (Chancellor of Extortion) or Howard (Spitting Image Slug) or the Ginger Scottish Twat running the country means life will only get worse.
An example.
I had my front number plate "fall off" and got a Vehicle rectification from a Traffic cop. Went into local cop shop last night to show insurance docs. Arrived at 18.55, one person in front of me and I was eventually seen at 19:40. Meantime some scumback comes in to "sign on" and he is seen immediately!
The sooner I can leave this scum ridden numpty country the better. The government should be run by the people for the people not what we have had for the past 20 years.
They will ban smoking in pubs soon as the have in Ireland even though the Irish people don't want it. We won't be able to drink more than 3 units a night, 'cos alcohol is bad for you.
Vive la revolution.....
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