Friend bought a stolen car
Discussion
Evening all,
A pal of mine bought a car last year value c£5k.
Bought it from an individual found on internet car portal. Did a check on the vin and numberplate came up with no finance and not stolen. Purchased it, been happy as larry till a couple of days ago. The BIB knocked on his door to tell him the car was stolen.
Turns out the owner has been on holiday for 6 months, got home to no car and reported stolen. Police did a search and found him.
No surprises they've been unable to track down the seller. And the address on the documents from previous owner are false.
They have let him keep the car for now whilst it goes to court. He asked me for advise but its not something I have had any experience of.
What are the likely outcomes?
Advise much appreciated.
Cheers,
HBT
A pal of mine bought a car last year value c£5k.
Bought it from an individual found on internet car portal. Did a check on the vin and numberplate came up with no finance and not stolen. Purchased it, been happy as larry till a couple of days ago. The BIB knocked on his door to tell him the car was stolen.
Turns out the owner has been on holiday for 6 months, got home to no car and reported stolen. Police did a search and found him.
No surprises they've been unable to track down the seller. And the address on the documents from previous owner are false.
They have let him keep the car for now whilst it goes to court. He asked me for advise but its not something I have had any experience of.
What are the likely outcomes?
Advise much appreciated.
Cheers,
HBT
handbraketurn said:
Evening all,
A pal of mine bought a car last year value c£5k.
Bought it from an individual found on internet car portal. Did a check on the vin and numberplate came up with no finance and not stolen. Purchased it, been happy as larry till a couple of days ago. The BIB knocked on his door to tell him the car was stolen.
Turns out the owner has been on holiday for 6 months, got home to no car and reported stolen. Police did a search and found him.
No surprises they've been unable to track down the seller. And the address on the documents from previous owner are false.
They have let him keep the car for now whilst it goes to court. He asked me for advise but its not something I have had any experience of.
What are the likely outcomes?
Advise much appreciated.
Cheers,
HBT
Don't HPI have a warranty against them being wrong? I'm sure I have one for each of my cars.A pal of mine bought a car last year value c£5k.
Bought it from an individual found on internet car portal. Did a check on the vin and numberplate came up with no finance and not stolen. Purchased it, been happy as larry till a couple of days ago. The BIB knocked on his door to tell him the car was stolen.
Turns out the owner has been on holiday for 6 months, got home to no car and reported stolen. Police did a search and found him.
No surprises they've been unable to track down the seller. And the address on the documents from previous owner are false.
They have let him keep the car for now whilst it goes to court. He asked me for advise but its not something I have had any experience of.
What are the likely outcomes?
Advise much appreciated.
Cheers,
HBT
Although as seen as the car has only been reported stolen since the check then they didn't technically get anything wrong. I'd look into their small print first.
You can't "buy" stolen goods - they still belong to the original owner. In other words, the thief has nothing which he is able to sell.
You friend will lose his car and the money. The thief has in effect stolen from your friend.
However, your friend will say he bought the car in good faith so it will be for the original owner to demonstrate that the car was stolen (as opposed to sold or given away).
Regrettably this is not likely to end well, unless your friend has some kind of "guarantee" from a third party that the car was not stolen.
You friend will lose his car and the money. The thief has in effect stolen from your friend.
However, your friend will say he bought the car in good faith so it will be for the original owner to demonstrate that the car was stolen (as opposed to sold or given away).
Regrettably this is not likely to end well, unless your friend has some kind of "guarantee" from a third party that the car was not stolen.
handbraketurn said:
found on internet car portal - the address on the documents from previous owner are false.
This I don't fully understand. Usually when you buy a car you collect it from the person and place whose name and address is on the V5. Where did your friend hand over the money and collect the keys? Did he get a receipt for his payment? Did the name on the receipt match the V5?Although V5 is not proof of ownership you need to ask lots of questions if the name and address do not tie up.
GC8 said:
Id guess that knowing the owner was away for a lengthy period, that the thief simply applied for it and will have received it after two weeks, as the owner didnt reply to the letter from the DVLA.
Yes, but DVLA must have sent the new V5 somewhere, and that somewhere must exist otherwise the "seller" can't have been in possession of a V5 when the friend parted with his money. So that gives you and Bib somewhere to start looking for the scrote.It's easy to be wise after the event but if the friend bought a car,
- off the internet
- without a V5
- collected in a pub car park
- paid cash
Answer is simple, if the car is stolen he will have to hand it over and stand the loss. No ifs, no buts, end of story.
However, if I was him (he?) I would insist on seeing evidence that the car was stolen. If, for instance, the 'owner' sold it, taking a cheque (or whatever) that was dishonoured, or consigned it to a 'dealer' friend, who sold the car, took the money, and did a bunk, that would not be theft.
Sounds like the thing will end badly though!
However, if I was him (he?) I would insist on seeing evidence that the car was stolen. If, for instance, the 'owner' sold it, taking a cheque (or whatever) that was dishonoured, or consigned it to a 'dealer' friend, who sold the car, took the money, and did a bunk, that would not be theft.
Sounds like the thing will end badly though!
A friend of mine bought one of those Eos things. He was going to meet the guy at his house in Central London then he suggested he meet him at his business address. My mate met him there. He wanted to put the roof down and the guy claimed he wasn't sure how to..Cue 'phone call, "Hello Darling, it's me. The chap wants to see it with the roof down, it's your car I've never done it. Which levers do we pull?". And without the bloke ever opening the door of 'his business address' my mate handed over £12k....
No comeback.
No comeback.
GC8 said:
A mail accomodation address or a shared letter box at a converted house is the usual method.
With the latter its quite possible that it was bought from outside the address.
Not sure exactly what happened with the address bit, I'll check that, its my friends first car purchase in the UK and he did his homework pretty well, whoever committed the fraud knew what they were doing. He felt he had done his checks and obviously felt confident he'd bought a genuine car from a genuine seller. The BIB knocking on the door was a complete surprise. With the latter its quite possible that it was bought from outside the address.
Apparently they got a new key issued from BMW using the new log book, as it was not reported stolen, no reason why anyone should suspect it.
Police are obviously still investigating it, for example could be an 'inside' job, be a great scam to let one of your mates sell your car, then claim it back when you get back from holiday.
But at this stage looks like he has been stitched up, I thought he might well end up having to take it on the chin but just thought it was worth asking if there is anything proactively he can be doing.
Checking the car was actually stolen rather than given away being a good bit of advice which I'll pass on.
Thanks for feedback.
Bit of a bitter pill for anyone really.
Hi All,
Although I appreciate our options look bleak, I thought I would just fill in a few of the gaps in case there is some snippet of hope that may be in our favour (I’m the wife of the friend).
When we bought the car in November it hadn’t been registered with the police as stolen, so when we paid for the AutoTrader Vehicle Check, the details that we received back were in fact correct and there were no finance/stolen records attached to the car (hence no case to claim against their insurance). The original owner then registered the car as missing in December, and the police were of course able to find us because we’re now the registered keeper via the new V5 that was issued to us when we posted off correct attachments.
On the V5 front – it seems the ‘thief’ that we bought the car from logged it as abandoned and filed to claim it as his. From my understanding this happens via the local council and Police. They try and contact the registered owner X times, and if they do not receive a response after a certain period of time then they issue a new V5 (can you believe you can do this?). This happened in August so I would assume during July or before the Police and Council would have been trying to contact the owner but the Police have advised she was overseas for an extended period at this time. Totally therefore there’s nearly 6 months between all of this occurring and the car being reported as stolen.
We went to see the car on two occasions, both times this was in the car park of the block of flats stated on the then current V5. So although we never went in to the actual flat, we were right outside the registered residence printed on the V5. We also asked to see the guys drivers licence (with picture), and again the address on his driver’s licence matched the V5. We did get a receipt, signed and dated with address as well. The Police have all these details but haven’t got far with doing anything with them. No doubt it will lead to a dead end in any case. Also, to get a new key cut by BMW you have to provide a whole list of identity proof, so the Police also have these details from BMW.
I think that fills in most of the gaps mentioned, but of course it doesn’t really help with our situation.
Thank you all very much for your help and advice!
Although I appreciate our options look bleak, I thought I would just fill in a few of the gaps in case there is some snippet of hope that may be in our favour (I’m the wife of the friend).
When we bought the car in November it hadn’t been registered with the police as stolen, so when we paid for the AutoTrader Vehicle Check, the details that we received back were in fact correct and there were no finance/stolen records attached to the car (hence no case to claim against their insurance). The original owner then registered the car as missing in December, and the police were of course able to find us because we’re now the registered keeper via the new V5 that was issued to us when we posted off correct attachments.
On the V5 front – it seems the ‘thief’ that we bought the car from logged it as abandoned and filed to claim it as his. From my understanding this happens via the local council and Police. They try and contact the registered owner X times, and if they do not receive a response after a certain period of time then they issue a new V5 (can you believe you can do this?). This happened in August so I would assume during July or before the Police and Council would have been trying to contact the owner but the Police have advised she was overseas for an extended period at this time. Totally therefore there’s nearly 6 months between all of this occurring and the car being reported as stolen.
We went to see the car on two occasions, both times this was in the car park of the block of flats stated on the then current V5. So although we never went in to the actual flat, we were right outside the registered residence printed on the V5. We also asked to see the guys drivers licence (with picture), and again the address on his driver’s licence matched the V5. We did get a receipt, signed and dated with address as well. The Police have all these details but haven’t got far with doing anything with them. No doubt it will lead to a dead end in any case. Also, to get a new key cut by BMW you have to provide a whole list of identity proof, so the Police also have these details from BMW.
I think that fills in most of the gaps mentioned, but of course it doesn’t really help with our situation.
Thank you all very much for your help and advice!
LJCS said:
Hi All,
Although I appreciate our options look bleak, I thought I would just fill in a few of the gaps in case there is some snippet of hope that may be in our favour (I’m the wife of the friend).
When we bought the car in November it hadn’t been registered with the police as stolen, so when we paid for the AutoTrader Vehicle Check, the details that we received back were in fact correct and there were no finance/stolen records attached to the car (hence no case to claim against their insurance). The original owner then registered the car as missing in December, and the police were of course able to find us because we’re now the registered keeper via the new V5 that was issued to us when we posted off correct attachments.
On the V5 front – it seems the ‘thief’ that we bought the car from logged it as abandoned and filed to claim it as his. From my understanding this happens via the local council and Police. They try and contact the registered owner X times, and if they do not receive a response after a certain period of time then they issue a new V5 (can you believe you can do this?). This happened in August so I would assume during July or before the Police and Council would have been trying to contact the owner but the Police have advised she was overseas for an extended period at this time. Totally therefore there’s nearly 6 months between all of this occurring and the car being reported as stolen.
We went to see the car on two occasions, both times this was in the car park of the block of flats stated on the then current V5. So although we never went in to the actual flat, we were right outside the registered residence printed on the V5. We also asked to see the guys drivers licence (with picture), and again the address on his driver’s licence matched the V5. We did get a receipt, signed and dated with address as well. The Police have all these details but haven’t got far with doing anything with them. No doubt it will lead to a dead end in any case. Also, to get a new key cut by BMW you have to provide a whole list of identity proof, so the Police also have these details from BMW.
I think that fills in most of the gaps mentioned, but of course it doesn’t really help with our situation.
Thank you all very much for your help and advice!
If the guy can be found, then he can be sued. That's the only way you'll get money back. Happily £5k is the limit for small claims which makes things a lot easier.Although I appreciate our options look bleak, I thought I would just fill in a few of the gaps in case there is some snippet of hope that may be in our favour (I’m the wife of the friend).
When we bought the car in November it hadn’t been registered with the police as stolen, so when we paid for the AutoTrader Vehicle Check, the details that we received back were in fact correct and there were no finance/stolen records attached to the car (hence no case to claim against their insurance). The original owner then registered the car as missing in December, and the police were of course able to find us because we’re now the registered keeper via the new V5 that was issued to us when we posted off correct attachments.
On the V5 front – it seems the ‘thief’ that we bought the car from logged it as abandoned and filed to claim it as his. From my understanding this happens via the local council and Police. They try and contact the registered owner X times, and if they do not receive a response after a certain period of time then they issue a new V5 (can you believe you can do this?). This happened in August so I would assume during July or before the Police and Council would have been trying to contact the owner but the Police have advised she was overseas for an extended period at this time. Totally therefore there’s nearly 6 months between all of this occurring and the car being reported as stolen.
We went to see the car on two occasions, both times this was in the car park of the block of flats stated on the then current V5. So although we never went in to the actual flat, we were right outside the registered residence printed on the V5. We also asked to see the guys drivers licence (with picture), and again the address on his driver’s licence matched the V5. We did get a receipt, signed and dated with address as well. The Police have all these details but haven’t got far with doing anything with them. No doubt it will lead to a dead end in any case. Also, to get a new key cut by BMW you have to provide a whole list of identity proof, so the Police also have these details from BMW.
I think that fills in most of the gaps mentioned, but of course it doesn’t really help with our situation.
Thank you all very much for your help and advice!
Having the V5 does not make you the owner of the vehicle, in fact the new ones do have this written on the front in red. It seems to me that the seller saw the opportunity to make a quick buck - I guess the car was sold below market value?
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