Discussion
Chaps,
I am interested to find out about private roads...
I have quite a long driveway at my home in Scotland, it leads directly onto a main road through a gate at the bottom of the drive. The gate is always open.
I often drive my quad bike up and down the drive and surrounding land.
Is this legal? Or, would I have to have the road closed?
What would happen for example if I came off my quad bike and it smashed into a car making its way up the drive? Who would be liable for what?
So when is a private road completely 'private'?
I am interested to find out about private roads...
I have quite a long driveway at my home in Scotland, it leads directly onto a main road through a gate at the bottom of the drive. The gate is always open.
I often drive my quad bike up and down the drive and surrounding land.
Is this legal? Or, would I have to have the road closed?
What would happen for example if I came off my quad bike and it smashed into a car making its way up the drive? Who would be liable for what?
So when is a private road completely 'private'?
Davel said:
I think you still need third party insurance, for the very reason that you suggest, either hitting a person or their property.
You can ride on your own land and driveway as you wish, as far as I understand it.
Unless there is a public right of way for some reason.
Definately get the third party insurance. You might hit :
1) The postman,
2) The Vicar on his bike.
3) Someone calling on you
4) Someone calling on your neighbour but got the wrong house.
5) A trespaser (Civil offence)
6) A sheep, cow or other livestock.
7) Your self (Have you seen dumber and dumber, where there always seems to be some mad fool running himself over with a quad bike.
As he lives in Scotland, most of the land laws of England do not apply. His drive is private land, and assuming that it is not shared access, he can do what he likes on it, even exceed the NSL. He can be as drunk as he likes, no plod can touch him. He requires no MOT or tax disk.
Many years ago, in the early 70's, my family had a large house on the outskirts of Edinburgh, with a 2 mile drive from the South side, and a ½ mile drive from the North.
The BiB used to use it as a short cut if they were chasing crims, but would always come back later to explain to my parents the reasons for and outcome of the chase. It usually got them a dram for their troubles.
We started getting other unidentified cars coming through, and sometimes they would come through without headlights. Our local BiB, who liked the odd dram, suggested that we close our (black, wrought iron) gates at night, especially the ones about halfway along the drive. I remember going down to open them one morning, to find them lying flat on the ground, covered in broken glass. There were no signs of panic braking on the road, so the numpty must have been coming through without lights.
Suffice to say, we had a notable reduction in our nocturnal visitors, as word must have got out. The BiB thought that it was "a result".
No claim was ever made against my parents.
Many years ago, in the early 70's, my family had a large house on the outskirts of Edinburgh, with a 2 mile drive from the South side, and a ½ mile drive from the North.
The BiB used to use it as a short cut if they were chasing crims, but would always come back later to explain to my parents the reasons for and outcome of the chase. It usually got them a dram for their troubles.
We started getting other unidentified cars coming through, and sometimes they would come through without headlights. Our local BiB, who liked the odd dram, suggested that we close our (black, wrought iron) gates at night, especially the ones about halfway along the drive. I remember going down to open them one morning, to find them lying flat on the ground, covered in broken glass. There were no signs of panic braking on the road, so the numpty must have been coming through without lights.
Suffice to say, we had a notable reduction in our nocturnal visitors, as word must have got out. The BiB thought that it was "a result".
No claim was ever made against my parents.
mad jock said:
As he lives in Scotland, most of the land laws of England do not apply. His drive is private land, and assuming that it is not shared access, he can do what he likes on it, even exceed the NSL. He can be as drunk as he likes, no plod can touch him. He requires no MOT or tax disk.
Many years ago, in the early 70's, my family had a large house on the outskirts of Edinburgh, with a 2 mile drive from the South side, and a ½ mile drive from the North.
The BiB used to use it as a short cut if they were chasing crims, but would always come back later to explain to my parents the reasons for and outcome of the chase. It usually got them a dram for their troubles.
We started getting other unidentified cars coming through, and sometimes they would come through without headlights. Our local BiB, who liked the odd dram, suggested that we close our (black, wrought iron) gates at night, especially the ones about halfway along the drive. I remember going down to open them one morning, to find them lying flat on the ground, covered in broken glass. There were no signs of panic braking on the road, so the numpty must have been coming through without lights.
Suffice to say, we had a notable reduction in our nocturnal visitors, as word must have got out. The BiB thought that it was "a result".
No claim was ever made against my parents.
I have been known to use the drive for 'testing' purposes. I have managed a nice 115MPH on the drive
But not on my quad of course. 
Its nice to drive at speed somewhere other than Germany without fear of prosecution.
Wouldn't like to meet the postman tho'.
Road Traffic Act, which also applies to Jockland, defines road as any highway and any other road to which the public have access and includes bridges over which a road passes.
Now it has been held (Blackmore v CC Devon and Cornwall 1984), despite whether public has access being a question of fact, if only a restricted section of the public such as members of a club has access to a road then that is not enough to make it a road.
Further any access enjoyed by the public must be in agreement with the landowner and members of the public must not have obtained access by overcoming a physical obstruction or in defiance of a prohibition either expressed or implied (Sign - Private Road). Consider a private lane to a farm being used to gain access to a public spectacle- agricultural show, then whilst public invited will be a road.
Traffic Act also includes Public place in relation to offences. To be a public place it must be proved that people who are admitted are members of the general public and not members of a specific class of the public and that admission is with the permission of the owner of the land in question.
So from the facts stated the drive is argueably private and requirements of RTA re DL,C of Insurance, RFL, Con and Use, Drink Drive etc etc are out of the window. However there are some statutes that cover wanton and furious driving likely to cause injury that apply to land other than roads or public places.(Offences against the Person Act)
Clear as mud isn't it.
DVD.
Now it has been held (Blackmore v CC Devon and Cornwall 1984), despite whether public has access being a question of fact, if only a restricted section of the public such as members of a club has access to a road then that is not enough to make it a road.
Further any access enjoyed by the public must be in agreement with the landowner and members of the public must not have obtained access by overcoming a physical obstruction or in defiance of a prohibition either expressed or implied (Sign - Private Road). Consider a private lane to a farm being used to gain access to a public spectacle- agricultural show, then whilst public invited will be a road.
Traffic Act also includes Public place in relation to offences. To be a public place it must be proved that people who are admitted are members of the general public and not members of a specific class of the public and that admission is with the permission of the owner of the land in question.
So from the facts stated the drive is argueably private and requirements of RTA re DL,C of Insurance, RFL, Con and Use, Drink Drive etc etc are out of the window. However there are some statutes that cover wanton and furious driving likely to cause injury that apply to land other than roads or public places.(Offences against the Person Act)
Clear as mud isn't it.
DVD.
Under S 151 (I think it is) of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984, a road is "any way over which there is a public right of passage (by whatever means)".
If it's gated, then you can close them whenever you wish, so the re is no "public right of passage". For the purposes of that Act, visitors to your house, specifically, do not count as "Public".
So if it serves a single house, and is gated (whether the gates are open or not), then it's a drive and not a road.
If it serves 3 or 4 houses, then there is probably a "public right" and it becomes a road - ie a public road, but privately maintained.
The title to the land, which somebody suggested earlier, is not relevant in Scotland - if it's deemed a public road (whether it's maintained by you or the Council) then even if you have title to it, you can't close it - and it's subject to the same road traffic laws as any other "road". A driveway isn't.
Sorry if that's not clear - neither is the Act!
If it's gated, then you can close them whenever you wish, so the re is no "public right of passage". For the purposes of that Act, visitors to your house, specifically, do not count as "Public".
So if it serves a single house, and is gated (whether the gates are open or not), then it's a drive and not a road.
If it serves 3 or 4 houses, then there is probably a "public right" and it becomes a road - ie a public road, but privately maintained.
The title to the land, which somebody suggested earlier, is not relevant in Scotland - if it's deemed a public road (whether it's maintained by you or the Council) then even if you have title to it, you can't close it - and it's subject to the same road traffic laws as any other "road". A driveway isn't.
Sorry if that's not clear - neither is the Act!
My brother at the age of 12-17 drove old cars with no MOT etc etc on my dads farm all over the place with friends in at night and day like a complete loony. We had race tracks laid out and the lot... very fun
One night a local homeowner had the cops out as my brothers mates tried to buy alcohol from him (wine merchant), but he didn't so they mooned him, and he was "offended" and called in the cops.
When the police arrived, the guy said look at him driving like an mad man, and my brother was, car full of teenagers who'd had a few... drove to the fence near the guys house, noticed the cops, and did a handbrake skid in the field and donutted it and span off. The police asked my dad if he minded and he said no, he couldn't care less as long as he didn't run over his sheep, and the police said that they could do nothing as it was on private property!
So, I take it from that, that it's ok on your own land. That was about 6 years ago, so don't think much will have changed.
Dave
One night a local homeowner had the cops out as my brothers mates tried to buy alcohol from him (wine merchant), but he didn't so they mooned him, and he was "offended" and called in the cops.
When the police arrived, the guy said look at him driving like an mad man, and my brother was, car full of teenagers who'd had a few... drove to the fence near the guys house, noticed the cops, and did a handbrake skid in the field and donutted it and span off. The police asked my dad if he minded and he said no, he couldn't care less as long as he didn't run over his sheep, and the police said that they could do nothing as it was on private property!
So, I take it from that, that it's ok on your own land. That was about 6 years ago, so don't think much will have changed.
Dave
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