Questions RE: nutters (for BiB really)
Discussion
I know a few people through martial arts and from the wierd circle of friends that I keep that are very very very skilled at fighting.
Im not talking about "My mate, eeeees well 'ard!" or anything like that, I am talking about trained martial artists and the likes that are REALLY quite skilled at dealing with any types of people or situations.
Now most of them through martial arts are very disciplined and know how dangerous that they are, so would never use their art to harm anyone other than in self defense.
But I was wondering, if one of these people is breaking the law and one of you BiB come up against them? What would you do? One of them could probably take out 4 or 5 people quite easily (more so with a weapon) so if you need to arrest someone like this, do you just keep piling on the officers until they go down and would you be allowed to back off if you knew your life was in danger?
Im not talking about "My mate, eeeees well 'ard!" or anything like that, I am talking about trained martial artists and the likes that are REALLY quite skilled at dealing with any types of people or situations.
Now most of them through martial arts are very disciplined and know how dangerous that they are, so would never use their art to harm anyone other than in self defense.
But I was wondering, if one of these people is breaking the law and one of you BiB come up against them? What would you do? One of them could probably take out 4 or 5 people quite easily (more so with a weapon) so if you need to arrest someone like this, do you just keep piling on the officers until they go down and would you be allowed to back off if you knew your life was in danger?
gh0st said:
I know a few people through martial arts and from the wierd circle of friends that I keep that are very very very skilled at fighting.
Im not talking about "My mate, eeeees well 'ard!" or anything like that, I am talking about trained martial artists and the likes that are REALLY quite skilled at dealing with any types of people or situations.
Now most of them through martial arts are very disciplined and know how dangerous that they are, so would never use their art to harm anyone other than in self defense.
But I was wondering, if one of these people is breaking the law and one of you BiB come up against them? What would you do? One of them could probably take out 4 or 5 people quite easily (more so with a weapon) so if you need to arrest someone like this, do you just keep piling on the officers until they go down and would you be allowed to back off if you knew your life was in danger?
Firstly, you can ALWAYS back off if your life is in danger...
In circumstances like this....I've never found that martial artists have been able to fight off the effect of CS incapacitant spray. In addition, the deployment of a police dog changes Jacky Chan into Jacky the barmaid....
Street
I was under the impression that when you registered with one of the Martial Arts Bodies (BJA etc), you were pretty much [censored] if caught fighting - I guess you'd be OK for reasonable self defence, but I wouldn't have thought that lamping a PO would go down well...
...sorry, kind of rambling, is that clear? I could be wrong of course, but that's what I was told.
CH
...sorry, kind of rambling, is that clear? I could be wrong of course, but that's what I was told.
CH
I know a few people in the Judo game. I remember one guy, years ago had been fighting with about 10 BiB and they could not control him at all. Few mins later a dog van arrived, he said if you let the dog near me it will die. They let the dog go, it did not even get a bite out of him - he killed it. I am not sure what happened re punnishment but I think he went down for it. Was a long time ago and I was not even on the job then.
CS does a good job most of the time, but if you are really mentaly strong and you have experianced it before then you can take it, just depends if it gets in your eyes.
There was an incident a few years back where a guy who was into Kung Fu went on the rampage in my area with a large sword, I think it was a traffic car that took him out in the end
Any way these days if someone is known to be very dangerous then it may be possible to authorise the ARV to attend.
Just to add, some of the best guys I know in Judo are cops so they might be picking a fight with a very capable person
CS does a good job most of the time, but if you are really mentaly strong and you have experianced it before then you can take it, just depends if it gets in your eyes.
There was an incident a few years back where a guy who was into Kung Fu went on the rampage in my area with a large sword, I think it was a traffic car that took him out in the end
Any way these days if someone is known to be very dangerous then it may be possible to authorise the ARV to attend.
Just to add, some of the best guys I know in Judo are cops so they might be picking a fight with a very capable person
edc said:
Surely if the dog is going to injure him (or he feels it would) then said person can use whatever reasonable force to protect himself?
He can do his best...
I've never seen ANYONE beat a police dog in my experience...(I know bluesandtwos has such a story, but they are one in a million.)
It's almost amusing to see Mr Hardman turn from "GO ON LET THAT DOG GO, I'LL KICK IT'S
ING HEAD IN" to..."AAAAGHH...EEEEEEE...OOOOOOO GET IT OFF ME GET IT OFF ME.....AAAAAAAGHH...EEEEEE....I'M SORRY I'M SORRY...." 
Street
>> Edited by Streetcop on Wednesday 28th July 11:59
edc said:
Slightly off topic but if the police are allowed an array of 'tools' to assist in arrest can assailants use equipment to negate these tools or is this obstruction etc?
Negate a police dog? What, with a bone you mean?
Negate CS spray? With a S10 respirator (gas mask)?
I'm only pulling your leg
I'm not really sure what you mean by equipment, but I doubt it would amount to obstruction, might be resist arrest, but it depends on what you mean..
Street
DrBob,
you're absolutely right - but only if the martial art (and I know Im going to type marital at some point here) is 'official'. I am registered for Thai boxing and Shorinji-kan jiu-jitsu (and definitely turn up on some interesting databases as a result)....but if I hadn't competed no-one would have forced me to register - if that makes sense. In theory, attaining a Dan in most of the officially recognised arts also requires you to register, but Im sure this doesnt happen all the time..
re: Dogs. I remember being very amused at school when we had a 'saefty with dangerous dogs' demo from the local bib. Apparently, wnhen they jump up at you, you should grab their front legs and pull them apart - "just like that". Ive always wondered how that would go if you tried it with 150lbs of snarling german shephard!
that said...having mock-faught a wonderful police dog called 'Ace' - also one of the biggest Ive ever seen...I dont think I'd lose....but that may be the ego talking!
you're absolutely right - but only if the martial art (and I know Im going to type marital at some point here) is 'official'. I am registered for Thai boxing and Shorinji-kan jiu-jitsu (and definitely turn up on some interesting databases as a result)....but if I hadn't competed no-one would have forced me to register - if that makes sense. In theory, attaining a Dan in most of the officially recognised arts also requires you to register, but Im sure this doesnt happen all the time..
re: Dogs. I remember being very amused at school when we had a 'saefty with dangerous dogs' demo from the local bib. Apparently, wnhen they jump up at you, you should grab their front legs and pull them apart - "just like that". Ive always wondered how that would go if you tried it with 150lbs of snarling german shephard!
that said...having mock-faught a wonderful police dog called 'Ace' - also one of the biggest Ive ever seen...I dont think I'd lose....but that may be the ego talking!
depends on the dog I suppose Back in Liverpool in the eighties I knew a chap who was a 4th dan black belt in karate (or something like that). He was leaving a pub and starting the walk home when he noticed he was being followed by two big blokes. Then a car pulled up ahead and two more blokes got out and started walking towards him... You can see where this is going 
Anyhoo, two of them ended up in hospital with broken bones, and the other two got black eyes etc. Turns out they were coppers who'd mistaken him for someone else and were attempting to 'arrest' him without identifying themselves as police officers. Funnily enough, no charges were ever brought against him...
Anyhoo, two of them ended up in hospital with broken bones, and the other two got black eyes etc. Turns out they were coppers who'd mistaken him for someone else and were attempting to 'arrest' him without identifying themselves as police officers. Funnily enough, no charges were ever brought against him...
Streetcop said:
Negate a police dog? What, with a bone you mean?
I have always wonder when I see the police dog demonstrations what would happen if the criminal pulled out a large juicy steak. I know the dogs are well trained but...
Would that make carring a steak home from the shop a going equiped offence???
Mrr T said:
Negate a police dog? What, with a bone you mean?
I have always wonder when I see the police dog demonstrations what would happen if the criminal pulled out a large juicy steak. I know the dogs are well trained but...
Would that make carring a steak home from the shop a going equiped offence???
Nah..definately not a going equipped offence.(presume it's a tongue in cheek question anyway)
Some police dogs can be distracted...others dont give a shit what you wave at them...
Street
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