Dispute with landlord of a car storage building
Discussion
I have a car stored in an old mill building in the village that I live. The landlord has recently passed away and now his affairs are being handled by his daughter and her mother. I have been told that they intend clearing the building to avoid paying the rates on it, or at least to reduce them I assume.
My car is under restoration and has been in there for around ten years. I had been paying the rent ad-hoc in lump sums as the owner wouldn't provide bank details to set up a monthly standing order to pay the rent. He would only accept cash payment, not even a cheque. It's fairly obvious why!!
Several years ago the landlord presented me with a demand for payment in the form of a handwritten 'Post-it' for rent including rent that had accumulated whilst I had been working away overseas for several months. The amount was one year out in his favour. I refused to pay anything until the amount represented the correct amount. The lock on the unit was instantly changed and I was refused a new key to gain access to my car, tools and other items belonging to me. I consulted his daughter who shrugged it off and said that she would sort it out with her elderly father.
now that they want to clear the unit she has told me that they require payment for the incorrect amount and for the 2 year plus period since being given the handwritten account of the incorrect balance.
I do not see why I should be expected to pay the incorrect or inflated amount, nor should I pay anything at all for a unit that I've not been allowed access to for several years.
One action that I have considered is to go up with an angle grinder and generator and empty the unit at night with a few burley mates but then that may be considered criminal damage and an afray?
The late landlords daughter has threatened that if I don't pay up the full amount within the next two weeks they will sell all of my belongings including the car for scrap and keep the proceeds.
What can I do?
My car is under restoration and has been in there for around ten years. I had been paying the rent ad-hoc in lump sums as the owner wouldn't provide bank details to set up a monthly standing order to pay the rent. He would only accept cash payment, not even a cheque. It's fairly obvious why!!
Several years ago the landlord presented me with a demand for payment in the form of a handwritten 'Post-it' for rent including rent that had accumulated whilst I had been working away overseas for several months. The amount was one year out in his favour. I refused to pay anything until the amount represented the correct amount. The lock on the unit was instantly changed and I was refused a new key to gain access to my car, tools and other items belonging to me. I consulted his daughter who shrugged it off and said that she would sort it out with her elderly father.
now that they want to clear the unit she has told me that they require payment for the incorrect amount and for the 2 year plus period since being given the handwritten account of the incorrect balance.
I do not see why I should be expected to pay the incorrect or inflated amount, nor should I pay anything at all for a unit that I've not been allowed access to for several years.
One action that I have considered is to go up with an angle grinder and generator and empty the unit at night with a few burley mates but then that may be considered criminal damage and an afray?
The late landlords daughter has threatened that if I don't pay up the full amount within the next two weeks they will sell all of my belongings including the car for scrap and keep the proceeds.
What can I do?
Go to the daughter and say if they go down that route you will have no choice but to inform HMRC and the local council(council tax) about income being earned on the property and it not being declared.
Tell her if you go down this route not only will they have to pay out from the estate but also likely to get a large fine.
How true if any of the the above will happen or take place in reality I dont know , however it might frigten the daughter enough to be reasonaable and give back your property.
Tell her if you go down this route not only will they have to pay out from the estate but also likely to get a large fine.
How true if any of the the above will happen or take place in reality I dont know , however it might frigten the daughter enough to be reasonaable and give back your property.
fizz47 said:
Go to the daughter and say if they go down that route you will have no choice but to inform HMRC and the local council(council tax) about income being earned on the property and it not being declared.
Tell her if you go down this route not only will they have to pay out from the estate but also likely to get a large fine.
How true if any of the the above will happen or take place in reality I dont know , however it might frigten the daughter enough to be reasonaable and give back your property.
This,Tell her if you go down this route not only will they have to pay out from the estate but also likely to get a large fine.
How true if any of the the above will happen or take place in reality I dont know , however it might frigten the daughter enough to be reasonaable and give back your property.
Although, get the angle grinder and mates as backup. Make sure you have a replacement padlock.
Obtain a similar padlock to the one on the unit, and do as you propose - bolt cutters, remove stuff, replace padlock with near identical padlock, and forget about it.
When said daughter tries to enter, she will assume a siezed lock, and cut it off anyway.
Once she discovers there is nothing in there, it is up to her then to prove you were using it, and with the lack of a contract, record of payments made, etc, stands very little chance of proving it.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and cannot be held responsible for any actions similar to this that are taken, nor their outcome.
When said daughter tries to enter, she will assume a siezed lock, and cut it off anyway.
Once she discovers there is nothing in there, it is up to her then to prove you were using it, and with the lack of a contract, record of payments made, etc, stands very little chance of proving it.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and cannot be held responsible for any actions similar to this that are taken, nor their outcome.
I have the V5 for the car registered in my name. And I'm sure you're right about the lack of accurate records, the office was a shambles last time I was in it. What are Boydems?
XitUp said:
Do you have proof that the car in there is yours? If so, good. Because it doesn't sound like they have any accurate records stating that you owe them anything. Get the boydems onto it.
I would have thought they have no right to deny access but then expect you to pay rent, I'm sure they can only evict you then seek compensation through courts.
Was a contract ever written up? If not I would just break lock and take my belongings (probably not legal) and not let things get so out of hand in the future.
Car and belongongs cant be worth much if you have let it get this far.
Was a contract ever written up? If not I would just break lock and take my belongings (probably not legal) and not let things get so out of hand in the future.
Car and belongongs cant be worth much if you have let it get this far.
Her Dad was famous for his cash no receipt transactions! The mention of HMRC would put the fear of God up 'em! Thanks for the advice.
fizz47 said:
Go to the daughter and say if they go down that route you will have no choice but to inform HMRC and the local council(council tax) about income being earned on the property and it not being declared.
Tell her if you go down this route not only will they have to pay out from the estate but also likely to get a large fine.
How true if any of the the above will happen or take place in reality I dont know , however it might frigten the daughter enough to be reasonaable and give back your property.
Tell her if you go down this route not only will they have to pay out from the estate but also likely to get a large fine.
How true if any of the the above will happen or take place in reality I dont know , however it might frigten the daughter enough to be reasonaable and give back your property.
No contract was ever written up or signed.In all the contents including the car are worth around £4K so worth fighting for I think?
benjfrst said:
I would have thought they have no right to deny access but then expect you to pay rent, I'm sure they can only evict you then seek compensation through courts.
Was a contract ever written up? If not I would just break lock and take my belongings (probably not legal) and not let things get so out of hand in the future.
Car and belongongs cant be worth much if you have let it get this far.
Was a contract ever written up? If not I would just break lock and take my belongings (probably not legal) and not let things get so out of hand in the future.
Car and belongongs cant be worth much if you have let it get this far.
I’d be inclined to do as suggested above.
But, try and avoid the threats until needed.
Give the daughter a call.
Say that you were paying cash in hand and it was all off the books and that the dad had made a mistake on his accounts that had not yet been resolved.
You’d prefer to just collect the car and your stuff and put the whole situation behind you with no further unpleasantness.
If she doesn’t agree then you could try something like.
You could offer to pay the amount up to the point of confusion when you were locked out.
If that doesn’t work try
‘I’m happy to speak to the executor of the will and the lawyers about this.
If they can provide accounts showing how long the cars been there and how much has been paid then we can discuss what is owed based on how long I’ve been denied access.
I really don’t want to get the police and the tax people involved, but if you don’t let me get my stuff back I’ll have no choice.’
In general, people don’t respond well to threats, so try and avoid them.
Lastly, I think there is some law about being able to reclaim your properly.
You should seriously consider going in and getting your stuff back, and then dealing with the consequences afterwards.
I guess it depends on how much the car is worth and whether she could give the car a kicking before you collect it.
But, try and avoid the threats until needed.
Give the daughter a call.
Say that you were paying cash in hand and it was all off the books and that the dad had made a mistake on his accounts that had not yet been resolved.
You’d prefer to just collect the car and your stuff and put the whole situation behind you with no further unpleasantness.
If she doesn’t agree then you could try something like.
You could offer to pay the amount up to the point of confusion when you were locked out.
If that doesn’t work try
‘I’m happy to speak to the executor of the will and the lawyers about this.
If they can provide accounts showing how long the cars been there and how much has been paid then we can discuss what is owed based on how long I’ve been denied access.
I really don’t want to get the police and the tax people involved, but if you don’t let me get my stuff back I’ll have no choice.’
In general, people don’t respond well to threats, so try and avoid them.
Lastly, I think there is some law about being able to reclaim your properly.
You should seriously consider going in and getting your stuff back, and then dealing with the consequences afterwards.
I guess it depends on how much the car is worth and whether she could give the car a kicking before you collect it.
cjb1 said:
No contract was ever written up or signed.In all the contents including the car are worth around £4K so worth fighting for I think?
Yes I would. How much fighting have you done over the last two years?benjfrst said:
I would have thought they have no right to deny access but then expect you to pay rent, I'm sure they can only evict you then seek compensation through courts.
Was a contract ever written up? If not I would just break lock and take my belongings (probably not legal) and not let things get so out of hand in the future.
Car and belongongs cant be worth much if you have let it get this far.
Was a contract ever written up? If not I would just break lock and take my belongings (probably not legal) and not let things get so out of hand in the future.
Car and belongongs cant be worth much if you have let it get this far.
Not a lot of fighting I must admit. The car is a partly reassembled kit car, since abandoning the project I bought myself something more interesting and valuable, I'd considered the kit car as a retirement project in years to come.
benjfrst said:
Yes I would. How much fighting have you done over the last two years?
Snowboy said:
I’d be inclined to do as suggested above.
But, try and avoid the threats until needed.
Give the daughter a call.
Say that you were paying cash in hand and it was all off the books and that the dad had made a mistake on his accounts that had not yet been resolved.
You’d prefer to just collect the car and your stuff and put the whole situation behind you with no further unpleasantness.
If she doesn’t agree then you could try something like.
You could offer to pay the amount up to the point of confusion when you were locked out.
If that doesn’t work try
‘I’m happy to speak to the executor of the will and the lawyers about this.
If they can provide accounts showing how long the cars been there and how much has been paid then we can discuss what is owed based on how long I’ve been denied access.
I really don’t want to get the police and the tax people involved, but if you don’t let me get my stuff back I’ll have no choice.’
In general, people don’t respond well to threats, so try and avoid them.
Lastly, I think there is some law about being able to reclaim your properly.
You should seriously consider going in and getting your stuff back, and then dealing with the consequences afterwards.
I guess it depends on how much the car is worth and whether she could give the car a kicking before you collect it.
Sounds good & if they come away with "thats a threat" etc just say "no it's a plan of action I'll take if need be" But, try and avoid the threats until needed.
Give the daughter a call.
Say that you were paying cash in hand and it was all off the books and that the dad had made a mistake on his accounts that had not yet been resolved.
You’d prefer to just collect the car and your stuff and put the whole situation behind you with no further unpleasantness.
If she doesn’t agree then you could try something like.
You could offer to pay the amount up to the point of confusion when you were locked out.
If that doesn’t work try
‘I’m happy to speak to the executor of the will and the lawyers about this.
If they can provide accounts showing how long the cars been there and how much has been paid then we can discuss what is owed based on how long I’ve been denied access.
I really don’t want to get the police and the tax people involved, but if you don’t let me get my stuff back I’ll have no choice.’
In general, people don’t respond well to threats, so try and avoid them.
Lastly, I think there is some law about being able to reclaim your properly.
You should seriously consider going in and getting your stuff back, and then dealing with the consequences afterwards.
I guess it depends on how much the car is worth and whether she could give the car a kicking before you collect it.
Good luck with getting all of it back.
Surely they have no leg to stand on from a legal point of view.
Your property is being held by them, against your will. There is no contract in place to explain why, and you are actively trying to reclaim your property and they are prohibiting you from doing so. This should be pretty open and shut if you get the authorities involved.
Your property is being held by them, against your will. There is no contract in place to explain why, and you are actively trying to reclaim your property and they are prohibiting you from doing so. This should be pretty open and shut if you get the authorities involved.
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