Stealth capability and "The Law" question.
Discussion
Ok, so you or someone with a forehead 12 inches high comes up with a particular type of car product, a car wax for instance that has the useful property of totally absorbing all infra red light from say 880nm to 1400nm.
Immediatley the cops start getting "no fix" on cars at almost point blank ranges.
Basically their toys are impotent, useless, cant get it up etc etc etc....
Can a PASSIVE stealth system be used such as that described, which the law cant prosecute you for?
I compare it to the situation of painting your car matt black, having pop-up/down headlights etc and no front plate. That reduces the range of laser to almost point blank as there's nothing for them to pickup.
Can they do me for the "mens rea" part of the offence just for that? Or are we getting into serious grey areas of the law?
Thing is, id be half expecting them to outlaw cars with popup lights and painted black or matt black.....
Immediatley the cops start getting "no fix" on cars at almost point blank ranges.
Basically their toys are impotent, useless, cant get it up etc etc etc....
Can a PASSIVE stealth system be used such as that described, which the law cant prosecute you for?
I compare it to the situation of painting your car matt black, having pop-up/down headlights etc and no front plate. That reduces the range of laser to almost point blank as there's nothing for them to pickup.
Can they do me for the "mens rea" part of the offence just for that? Or are we getting into serious grey areas of the law?
Thing is, id be half expecting them to outlaw cars with popup lights and painted black or matt black.....
I think a new headlight style for the Hornet may be in order 
deltaf said:
Thing is, id be half expecting them to outlaw cars with popup lights and painted black or matt black.....
Probably, as it may be said to be "perverting the course of "justice"".
I expect slowing down if see a speed trap ahead will be outlawed too, because you weren't travelling at your "real" speed when the reading was taken!
hertsbiker said:
think that's why "they" don't like you to put headlamp covers on bikes... removes the last bit of reflective area. Sad innit?
We were taught when using the laser to point at the "main body mass" (same as the fierarms teams...)
You can still get a return from a black leather clad body with an LTI 20-20.
Hi BlairOut,
You made a good decision in choosing the Hornet. It's a cracking bike.
Have you signed up to the Hornets Nest yet? If not, check out www.hondahornet.co.uk. All the advice and info on the Hornet that you will ever need. They've also got their own forum, which has loads of useful and interesting banter.
Maybe see you there.
Mandat
You made a good decision in choosing the Hornet. It's a cracking bike.
Have you signed up to the Hornets Nest yet? If not, check out www.hondahornet.co.uk. All the advice and info on the Hornet that you will ever need. They've also got their own forum, which has loads of useful and interesting banter.
Maybe see you there.
Mandat
Dibble said:
think that's why "they" don't like you to put headlamp covers on bikes... removes the last bit of reflective area. Sad innit?
We were taught when using the laser to point at the "main body mass" (same as the fierarms teams...)
You can still get a return from a black leather clad body with an LTI 20-20.
yeah, you *can*. However it's a lot less of a return signal.
Any headlight cover that is a solid colour will do. Pyramid plastics do 'em. Reduces signal reflection by a LOT.
Remember kiddies, plates, then lights when dealing with reflected signals.
To answer a couple of points, you could not be prosecuted for PCJ for what is in effect a con and use offence. CPS guidelines state that to run a PCJ, a course of justice must be in place. i.e. an offence under investigation and then an act done with the intention of hindering that investigation/prosecution. The simple placement of a cover on a light is not sufficient, nor is painting a car a certain way. To even consider a PCJ prosecution, it would be necessary to show that the act done WAS intended to PCJ. It would be for a jury to decide whether the act did, or was intended to PCJ. E.g. an active device which "jams" lasers or whatever may fall under this category, IF a jury was satisfied that it's use was to avoid prosecution, and they were happy BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT, that there was no legitimate use etc....
The old garage door argument is often rasised. PCJ is a serious matter - Crown Court etc... any Officer investigating would interview the suspect. If this was raised, then the said garage door would be visited, tested etc... If it wasn't raised in interview, it may harm the defence if it was raised in Court, as per the Caution.
The old garage door argument is often rasised. PCJ is a serious matter - Crown Court etc... any Officer investigating would interview the suspect. If this was raised, then the said garage door would be visited, tested etc... If it wasn't raised in interview, it may harm the defence if it was raised in Court, as per the Caution.
mandat said:
Hi BlairOut,
You made a good decision in choosing the Hornet. It's a cracking bike.
Have you signed up to the Hornets Nest yet? If not, check out <a href="http://www.hondahornet.co.uk.">www.hondahornet.co.uk.</a> All the advice and info on the Hornet that you will ever need. They've also got their own forum, which has loads of useful and interesting banter.
Maybe see you there.
Mandat
Mandat I am there occasionally. Last time there were some americans moaning that the exhausts were smelly and it should be legislated against. Kinda wound me up so I haven't been back much. I post on there as Bliar. Some good gen and top tips to be had. Banter seemed a little slow compared with PH, and to be honest, the amount of posting I do on here
I don't post a lot elsewhere 
>> Edited by BliarOut on Wednesday 4th August 21:25
xxplod said:
The old garage door argument is often rasised. PCJ is a serious matter - Crown Court etc... any Officer investigating would interview the suspect. If this was raised, then the said garage door would be visited, tested etc... If it wasn't raised in interview, it may harm the defence if it was raised in Court, as per the Caution.
Reading the above why do I have this mental picture of court officials staggering in carrying a garage door in order for it to be raised in Court?
I'll get my coat.
No real or imaginary garage doors were raised in the composition of the above post. Any resemblance to any garage door interview or test, real or fictional is completely unintentional and without malice aforethought.
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