Lorry drivers drifting onto hard shoulder
Discussion
Question I asked on another thread, I thought it deserved a thread all by itself.
If a lorry driver drifts onto the hard shoulder (like I see about 4 out of every 10 do
), should they not be given an instant bad without appeal?
Its effing dangerous, there is no reason for it!
I have NEVER, NOT ONCE EVER drifted onto the hard shoulder in even my worser tireder moments of driving.
Am I missing something or should this be delt with very severely?
Gh0st
If a lorry driver drifts onto the hard shoulder (like I see about 4 out of every 10 do
), should they not be given an instant bad without appeal? Its effing dangerous, there is no reason for it!
I have NEVER, NOT ONCE EVER drifted onto the hard shoulder in even my worser tireder moments of driving.
Am I missing something or should this be delt with very severely?
Gh0st
tvradict said:
Wind.
A cross wind WILL push a lorry off course, weather it be a Rigid 8x4 with an Alloy body, or a 6x2 Unit dragging a 16.3ft 40ft long Tri Axle trailer, they get pushed. the stronger the wind, the harder the push and the further the drift. And you can't just yank the steering wheel to bring it back into line, you have to stop the drift, and then pull it back onto the carriageway.
Cars don't get affected in quite the same way
There you go Tvradict!
Fair point, but shouldnt this mean that lorries should NEVER be allowed to overtake on tne basis that they may be affected whilst overtaking?
Ok, I'll tell you a little story.
A few years ago I was driving down the M80 from Stirling to Glasgow. In my 1st Astra, I had only been driving a few months, road was wet, had just stopped raining. The roads were reasonably empty. I was in the outside lane, about to pass a truck, road was slightly downhill with a curve at the bottom.
I was about 3 when his trfeet away ailer (which i presume was empty) swung across the road and met nicely with the crash barrier. the unit altered course and used the hard shoulder to bring the trailer back into line. I shit myself big time, the trailer was slightly marked on the OFR Corner, and the driver carried on his merry way.
My point is, his trailer was hit by a gust of wind. I know this because I felt the gust through my car, made me wobble. If wind makes an Astra wobble, WTF do you think it will do to an empty trailer. The Unit was quite an old one, and from knowledge I have now I assume it or the trailer or both didn't benefit from the ISO system.
Most drivers know, through experience how to deal with wind, slippery conditions and even numpty drivers braking in front of them. Drifting is a very regular occurance unfortunately, yes some of it is due to tiredness, but most drivers know when they are too tired to drive and pull over. If they don't they risk their licence, their job, others lives.
Have you ever seen a Curtainsider with its curtains tied back when its empty? Now you know why!
A few years ago I was driving down the M80 from Stirling to Glasgow. In my 1st Astra, I had only been driving a few months, road was wet, had just stopped raining. The roads were reasonably empty. I was in the outside lane, about to pass a truck, road was slightly downhill with a curve at the bottom.
I was about 3 when his trfeet away ailer (which i presume was empty) swung across the road and met nicely with the crash barrier. the unit altered course and used the hard shoulder to bring the trailer back into line. I shit myself big time, the trailer was slightly marked on the OFR Corner, and the driver carried on his merry way.
My point is, his trailer was hit by a gust of wind. I know this because I felt the gust through my car, made me wobble. If wind makes an Astra wobble, WTF do you think it will do to an empty trailer. The Unit was quite an old one, and from knowledge I have now I assume it or the trailer or both didn't benefit from the ISO system.
Most drivers know, through experience how to deal with wind, slippery conditions and even numpty drivers braking in front of them. Drifting is a very regular occurance unfortunately, yes some of it is due to tiredness, but most drivers know when they are too tired to drive and pull over. If they don't they risk their licence, their job, others lives.
Have you ever seen a Curtainsider with its curtains tied back when its empty? Now you know why!
gh0st said:
Question I asked on another thread, I thought it deserved a thread all by itself.
If a lorry driver drifts onto the hard shoulder (like I see about 4 out of every 10 do
Its effing dangerous, there is no reason for it!
I have NEVER, NOT ONCE EVER drifted onto the hard shoulder in even my worser tireder moments of driving.
Am I missing something or should this be delt with very severely?
Gh0st
Sorry - I`m not doing non-emotive today!
You want an instant ban for something which is not strictly illegal???? Fair enough, but then ban every car driver who does something wrong as well. The roads would soon be quieter!
As truck drivers, we also hold car licences. Therefore when we are in our cars we often see trucks acting in a strange manner. However, we can usually see a reason which may not be obvious to a non HGV licence holder. We therefore drive accordingly. I do not hold a motorcycle licence, but I try and see their perspective whenever possible and drive accordingly. Sometimes I get it right, sometimes I may get it wrong, but at least I try!
Steve
towman said:
Sorry - I`m not doing non-emotive today!
You want an instant ban for something which is not strictly illegal????
Yes if its bourne out of the fact that its due to tiredness. Thats just plain f
king reckless as driving while tired is a conciouss choice. I have not gone to site when whole servers are down becuase I am tired having been called out a few hours previous. My company could have kicked off and I could have lost my job but the fact of the matter is if I am too tired to drive, I could not live with myself if I killed someone through my concious choice. Dont drive when tired - if it costs you your job = small price to pay.
IMO if you take the job as a HGV driver you accept the larger responsibilites based on the damage your vehicle could do. If you are tired = DO NOT DRIVE IT!
philthy said:
While doing a night trunk for a national parcel courier (no names, but think explosive), I became so tired I had to stop. 25 minutes later, I was on my way. When I got back to the depot all hell broke loose, where have you been etc etc. I explained that if I had fallen asleep with their truck on the motorway, they wouldn't have any parcels to deliver at all. It turned out that I got back just as the sorters were going to have their break (nice for them), they kicked up a stink. After explaining my side of things to the agency I work for (very reputable national company.....told me I did exactly the right thing), the couriers decided to dock some time from my wages. They took an hour and forty five minutes off me. Next time they wanted a driver, I told them "I'm sorry, I only drive for professionals, who take safety seriously".
Phil
I posted this a while back. Quite simply most truck drivers drive professionaly, and not while tired. Wind is the biggest factor when it comes to swerving. Another is definately the "tramlines" on worn out roads. Perhaps if we are going to ban drivers for crossing lane markers I might be allowed to fix a camera to the front of my truck, and start providing evidence of car drivers who do this ?
Another idea, why don't you have a try at driving one yourself, then you can answer your own question?
Phil
Not meant to be sarcastic,really, just try it....
philthy said:
Another idea, why don't you have a try at driving one yourself, then you can answer your own question?
Phil
Not meant to be sarcastic,really, just try it....
Actually I would love too! But since it aint never gonna happen, due to the huge cost in taking an HGV test and being happy in my current job, the best I can hope to do is understand through asking.
NLP training and studying various hypnosis techniques creates the need to put myself in other peoples shoes, and its quite scarey at times knowing how wrong a situation can be interpreted from one persons observations. This is why I am one of the "if you dont understand, ask questions" breeds.
Of course, all Micra drivers are excluded as they have no point of view as they are blissfully unaware of everything around them anyway
Gh0st
philthy said:
Wind is the biggest factor when it comes to swerving. Another is definately the "tramlines" on worn out roads.
And what causes those tramlines? HGV's of course.
The fact that HGV's find it difficult or even impossible to stay in one lane during windy conditions simply means that they should not be on the roads during those conditions.
I'm with philthy on this. I used to drive a 6.5 tonne truck (mobile lab) as part of my job, and while tramlines could sometimes make it difficult to stay in lane, crosswinds were by far the greater risk. A number of years ago I was driving down from Glasgow to Stoke in very windy conditions and were reduced to a max speed of 55 rather then 70 mph on motorways simply down to wind. When the wind was across us , we could feel the side of the truck being raised. This happened to the same degree whether at 30mph or 55mph. many empty curtain siders opened the sides of the trailers, and we saw plenty stopped in the lee of hills for fear of being blown over. On that 1 trip we passed 9 trucks that had been blown over and 3 or 4 more that had taken action to avoid it (driving into adjacent fields etc). Very scary and tiring drive.
I would hope that everyone here would agree that driving when tired is stupid and dangerous whether in a lorry car, or Land Rover towing a trailer.
I have often seen lorries drift and it is reassurring (in a fashion) to know that it is not just that the driver is going to sleep, but is for another reason.
On the subject of tramlines is it my imagination but doesn;t this seem to be a much greater problem these days. The particularly road I know which is bad is the dual carriageway which runs from Bluewater up round Dartford to Erith. This is a relatively new road. When on a coach trip in Eurpoe the driver said the problem was worse on continental roads as they used sand for the sub-base and it gets moved by the weither. So is tramlining caused by roadbuilding on the cheap?
I have often seen lorries drift and it is reassurring (in a fashion) to know that it is not just that the driver is going to sleep, but is for another reason.
On the subject of tramlines is it my imagination but doesn;t this seem to be a much greater problem these days. The particularly road I know which is bad is the dual carriageway which runs from Bluewater up round Dartford to Erith. This is a relatively new road. When on a coach trip in Eurpoe the driver said the problem was worse on continental roads as they used sand for the sub-base and it gets moved by the weither. So is tramlining caused by roadbuilding on the cheap?
Mr2Mike said:
The fact that HGV's find it difficult or even impossible to stay in one lane during windy conditions simply means that they should not be on the roads during those conditions.
Considering that a high proportion of car accidents happen in the rain, shall we pass a law to make them all park up until it`s sunny? Of course not! 99% of us drive to the conditions. The odd moron who doesn`t is the one that sticks in everybodys mind.
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