Pistonheads to the rescue...
Discussion
Dear All,
A good friend of mine has has some trouble with a second hand car he bought over 5 months ago. He has regularly been messed around by the company that sold him the car and because I am so frustrated for him i thought I would post his letter on this forum in the hope that somebody could help.
Please read the letter below and if anybody can offer good advice I would be very greatful. Many thanks:
The letter reads:
I bought a car from B****** Trade Centre for £6,700, part exchanging my old car for £3,200 and paying the balance on switch card. This was on 25 March 2004.
Two weeks later I was filling it up with diesel and it leaked out the bottom of the car. I got towed back from London to Weston super Mare (where I live), and BTC begrudgingly agreed to come and collect the car. I got it back a week or so later after they had replaced the fuel tank.
Three days later I was driving along and firstly noticed that the air con didn’t work, and secondly it cut out for no reason. This happened a few times in the same day. I rang them and they took it in again. They called me later that week and said they’d fixed both problems so I picked the car up. The air con seemed to be fixed, but the car soon started cutting out again (the first time was whilst in the outside lane of the M4).
I stopped using the car and phoned BTC to say I wanted to reject the car and get my money back. They told me to put this in writing which I did. They wrote back and said bring it in to get it fixed. I wrote back and said I didn’t want them to try to fix it again, I wanted to reject it. They wrote back and said bring it in to get it fixed. I spoke to them and arranged a time to see the manager.
When I met him he said that I had to give them ample opportunity to repair the car (which I said they’d already had). He told me to take the car to Peugeot for them to diagnose the problems, and to do the repairs. If the problems still persisted after that he said he would give me the money back. He agreed to put this in writing but nothing has materialised.
I took the car to Peugeot and told them that BTC were paying. First BTC wanted me to pay and claim the money back but I told them I couldn’t do that. They agreed that Peugeot could invoice them direct. At each stage of the work I told Peugeot to get BTC’s permission before doing anything which they did.
Peugeot have now done the work and need paying, but BTC are refusing to pay. Peugeot want me to pay and to get the money from BTC, but I’m unwilling to do this. Peugeot won’t release my car until they are paid, but BTC are refusing to do so. If I call the aftersales dept they say I need to speak to the manager and when I call him he’s not available.
I’ve written to Trading Standards to see if they can help, but as yet they’ve not come back to me.
A good friend of mine has has some trouble with a second hand car he bought over 5 months ago. He has regularly been messed around by the company that sold him the car and because I am so frustrated for him i thought I would post his letter on this forum in the hope that somebody could help.
Please read the letter below and if anybody can offer good advice I would be very greatful. Many thanks:
The letter reads:
I bought a car from B****** Trade Centre for £6,700, part exchanging my old car for £3,200 and paying the balance on switch card. This was on 25 March 2004.
Two weeks later I was filling it up with diesel and it leaked out the bottom of the car. I got towed back from London to Weston super Mare (where I live), and BTC begrudgingly agreed to come and collect the car. I got it back a week or so later after they had replaced the fuel tank.
Three days later I was driving along and firstly noticed that the air con didn’t work, and secondly it cut out for no reason. This happened a few times in the same day. I rang them and they took it in again. They called me later that week and said they’d fixed both problems so I picked the car up. The air con seemed to be fixed, but the car soon started cutting out again (the first time was whilst in the outside lane of the M4).
I stopped using the car and phoned BTC to say I wanted to reject the car and get my money back. They told me to put this in writing which I did. They wrote back and said bring it in to get it fixed. I wrote back and said I didn’t want them to try to fix it again, I wanted to reject it. They wrote back and said bring it in to get it fixed. I spoke to them and arranged a time to see the manager.
When I met him he said that I had to give them ample opportunity to repair the car (which I said they’d already had). He told me to take the car to Peugeot for them to diagnose the problems, and to do the repairs. If the problems still persisted after that he said he would give me the money back. He agreed to put this in writing but nothing has materialised.
I took the car to Peugeot and told them that BTC were paying. First BTC wanted me to pay and claim the money back but I told them I couldn’t do that. They agreed that Peugeot could invoice them direct. At each stage of the work I told Peugeot to get BTC’s permission before doing anything which they did.
Peugeot have now done the work and need paying, but BTC are refusing to pay. Peugeot want me to pay and to get the money from BTC, but I’m unwilling to do this. Peugeot won’t release my car until they are paid, but BTC are refusing to do so. If I call the aftersales dept they say I need to speak to the manager and when I call him he’s not available.
I’ve written to Trading Standards to see if they can help, but as yet they’ve not come back to me.
I had this problem with a well known car dealer re a VW Golf. What I didn't realise at the time is how incredibly usefull it is to buy a car on Finance arranged through you bank. BasicallyiIt isn't your car until the finance is paid off, and you can just ring them up and say 'I don't want it'. And the finance company are quite happy to say 'OK' leave it with us to sort out.
The dealer didn't like that at all. I simply turned up, gave them the keys and the log book, and said 'here you go, I don't want it. Bye Bye'
Don't know what happens with Switch though. I do know that with VISA you can do similar things. VISA is very powerful, I ran a business and one customer rejected a VISA bill from us. He'd made a phone order, and had the goods despatched, then just refused to honour the bill. There was sweet FA we could do. We didn't have his signature, and VISA found on his side.
The dealer didn't like that at all. I simply turned up, gave them the keys and the log book, and said 'here you go, I don't want it. Bye Bye'
Don't know what happens with Switch though. I do know that with VISA you can do similar things. VISA is very powerful, I ran a business and one customer rejected a VISA bill from us. He'd made a phone order, and had the goods despatched, then just refused to honour the bill. There was sweet FA we could do. We didn't have his signature, and VISA found on his side.
Phone trading standards.
Then go to BTC with the car (if possible) and kick up a fuss, loudly, preferably at a weekend when they are busy.
The only issue may be the time this has taken, but trading standards should be able to advise.
Bristol trading standards were very useful when I had a similar problem.
Then go to BTC with the car (if possible) and kick up a fuss, loudly, preferably at a weekend when they are busy.
The only issue may be the time this has taken, but trading standards should be able to advise.
Bristol trading standards were very useful when I had a similar problem.
It could be that the only way he's going to get the car back off Peugeot is to pay the bill, but with "PAID UNDER PROTEST" written in large letters across the invoice and bill, and then sue BTC to recover the money. Peugeot are well within their rights not to release the car until someone pays the bill. They may even charge storage after a while or even sell the car to recover the debt, although I would expect them to give warning of this first.
I think hes hoping that Peugeot will get so fed up that they they use their force to recover the money from BTC.
The problem is that BTC told him to take it to Peugeot to get it fixed. So Peugeot arranged with BTC over the phone that BTC would pay the costs. The problem now is that BTC for whatever reason, wont pay up - despite oking the work to be done in the first place. In fact now BTC are telling him to pay Peugeot and they will then pay him back - but they wont. So the longer he leaves it a Peugeot, the more chance they will have to recover the money.
The problem is that BTC told him to take it to Peugeot to get it fixed. So Peugeot arranged with BTC over the phone that BTC would pay the costs. The problem now is that BTC for whatever reason, wont pay up - despite oking the work to be done in the first place. In fact now BTC are telling him to pay Peugeot and they will then pay him back - but they wont. So the longer he leaves it a Peugeot, the more chance they will have to recover the money.
I presume his has nothing in writing from BTC that they will pay the bill? Probably a lesson learned that when it comes to dealing with reasonable sums of money it is best to get everything on paper.
Anyway, as mentioned IMO he should pay the bill and then present a copy to BTC and request payment within X days.
After that he could sue them for the costs. He would need to get all his paperwork up together ready for a court case, and then present the facts to the magstrate. It is possible that they will roll-over at this point.
You can even file a small claim online: www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
Gareth
Anyway, as mentioned IMO he should pay the bill and then present a copy to BTC and request payment within X days.
After that he could sue them for the costs. He would need to get all his paperwork up together ready for a court case, and then present the facts to the magstrate. It is possible that they will roll-over at this point.
You can even file a small claim online: www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
Gareth
if he does have to pay,he wants to take the car down to the place where he bought it and shove a large sign ontop saying "you too could have an unreliable pile of cr@p with no warrantee and a f-u attitude towards any problems you encounter......you may aswell buy a car from arthur daley!"
IMHO, as soon as he pays, he's bolloxed. BTC will simply deny all knowledge if it goes to the small claims court and he will end up with a bigger bill. Best to get Peugeot to put something in writing as to who authorised the repair before they started it.
It would be in Peugeot's interest to help if they want their money.
It would be in Peugeot's interest to help if they want their money.
Hang on - Peugeot agreed with BTC to do the work at BTC's expense.
It's his car and NOT his agreement so can Peugeot refuse to release his car - I think legally NOT!.
It's like buying a new house - finding a fault and the builders calling a plumber in to sort it. The plumber can't take possesion of your house or claim from you when the contract is with someone else.
It's his car and NOT his agreement so can Peugeot refuse to release his car - I think legally NOT!.
It's like buying a new house - finding a fault and the builders calling a plumber in to sort it. The plumber can't take possesion of your house or claim from you when the contract is with someone else.
Sounds to me like BTC might be waiting to see if he is satisfied with the repairs before shelling out any ££££'s
They probably dont want to pay out only to find that he is still not happy and goes for his £££ back.
If BTC have agreed the work with the garage it's down to the garage to chase BTC for the money - could you not just go to the garage with the spare keys and drive the car away???? I know I would - but then I'm hot-headed
Whe I returned a car to a Ford Dealship a few years back, I found the following quickly got me the resolution I was looking for:
1. Enter premises on a Saturday afternoon
2. Demand to speak to the manager
3. Start the conversation with 'On the advice of my solicitor...'
4. Get noisy if they won't cooperate.
Bagged me a car worth £1500 more than the original I had purchased within a week (only a six grand car in the first place)!
A good dealers' reputation is worth a lot
1. Enter premises on a Saturday afternoon
2. Demand to speak to the manager
3. Start the conversation with 'On the advice of my solicitor...'
4. Get noisy if they won't cooperate.
Bagged me a car worth £1500 more than the original I had purchased within a week (only a six grand car in the first place)!
A good dealers' reputation is worth a lot
If the important bits were only said over the phone you can write to them confirming our phone conversation on blah day where you saidtake the car to the main dealer and you would pick up the tab etc etc...
Then followed by a letter saying pay them or I will start legal procedings and I will also claim for expensies etc...
Then followed by a letter saying pay them or I will start legal procedings and I will also claim for expensies etc...
Don't go 'around the houses' with this.
Don't get involved with the Peugeot dealer, after all he's done some work at a customer's request and/or at the request of someone acting on behalf of he owner (you) and they just want to be sure of being paid before releasing the car.
However, you seem to have a major claim against the vendor and that is where your actions must focus.
If it were me I would get a letter to the Managing director of the vendor, with a copy to the Trading Standards Office, from a solicitor telling them that unless they respond immediately to your reasonable requirements you will isse a writ for your costs, including the money you will need to pay the Peugeot dealer, your losses otherwise incurred and a sum to cover the 'loss of quiet enjoyment' of the asset which you purchased from them. If you are a member of the AA or RAC they will be a great help.
Many years ago I bought a car, from a dealer, which turned out to be stolen. I lost the car as the police took it away and my eventual court claim, which my solicitor said I could not lose, eventually got me the full value of the car, plus all my legal and other costs, plus about 25% of the value of the car for my loss of quiet enjoyment covering a two-year period, plus interest at 3% over base on the capital sum.
Take a robust and positive line and you WILL win, but you'll need to be strong and very assertive. Make sure all your contacts with everyone involved are in writing, or immediately confirmed by letter. Create a full 'paper trail'.
Good luck with this.
Don't get involved with the Peugeot dealer, after all he's done some work at a customer's request and/or at the request of someone acting on behalf of he owner (you) and they just want to be sure of being paid before releasing the car.
However, you seem to have a major claim against the vendor and that is where your actions must focus.
If it were me I would get a letter to the Managing director of the vendor, with a copy to the Trading Standards Office, from a solicitor telling them that unless they respond immediately to your reasonable requirements you will isse a writ for your costs, including the money you will need to pay the Peugeot dealer, your losses otherwise incurred and a sum to cover the 'loss of quiet enjoyment' of the asset which you purchased from them. If you are a member of the AA or RAC they will be a great help.
Many years ago I bought a car, from a dealer, which turned out to be stolen. I lost the car as the police took it away and my eventual court claim, which my solicitor said I could not lose, eventually got me the full value of the car, plus all my legal and other costs, plus about 25% of the value of the car for my loss of quiet enjoyment covering a two-year period, plus interest at 3% over base on the capital sum.
Take a robust and positive line and you WILL win, but you'll need to be strong and very assertive. Make sure all your contacts with everyone involved are in writing, or immediately confirmed by letter. Create a full 'paper trail'.
Good luck with this.
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