Crash coach was 'pushed off road'
Discussion
ananova said:
Crash coach was 'pushed off road'
A minibus overtaking a coach full of British tourists caused the devastating Austrian bus crash which killed five people, tour operator Inghams said.
The smaller vehicle overtook on a sharp corner, tried to avoid an oncoming car and ploughed into the bus, sending it off the steep mountain road.
Local emergency services said the five people who died were British and dozens more were injured in the accident near the town of Hallein, 25km from Salzburg. A total of 49 people were on board the bus - 42 Britons, three Germans, two Russians, an Australian tour guide and an Austrian driver when disaster struck on Tuesday.
Inghams, which organised the trip, flew 20 concerned relatives out to Austria to join their loved ones. Spokeswoman Lynsey Devon said: "The excursion coach was descending a mountain road when, whilst approaching a sharp bend, it was overtaken by a minibus.
"Whilst the minibus was overtaking, a car came in the opposite direction. The minibus swerved against the excursion coach and then also hit the oncoming car.
"The impact caused the coach to leave the road, roll over three times and fall some 60 metres into fields below resulting in the injuries to the passengers."
Dr Klaus Aigner, the district police captain in Hallein, announced the preliminary findings this morning. Drug and alcohol tests were carried out on all three drivers involved in the accident, but all proved negative.
Harald Hofmann, from the Federal Police in Salzburg, said it had proved difficult to identify the deceased because none of the passengers was carrying their passport at the time. Many of the seriously injured were too ill to identify themselves and so DNA tests will have to be carried out on those who died, he said.
Such an unecessary accident
I have never understood why coach/bus roofs seem so fragile. With the current focus on SUV rollover protection I wonder why the same efforts are not put into making coach/bus roof pillars capable of supporting the weight of the vehicle. It seems to me that the art of coach-building is still in the dark ages of "a truck chassis with seats".
Peter Ward said:I guess because the centre of gravity is so low, they don't invest so much in the roof pillars. Again, a bus (even a double decker) is almost impossible to roll, because all of the weight is near the floor.
I have never understood why coach/bus roofs seem so fragile. With the current focus on SUV rollover protection I wonder why the same efforts are not put into making coach/bus roof pillars capable of supporting the weight of the vehicle. It seems to me that the art of coach-building is still in the dark ages of "a truck chassis with seats".
Doesn't help if you are pushed off the road down a ravine though
Condolences to all families who lost loved ones in this tragic accident (5 Brits died).GregE240 said:
Again, a bus (even a double decker) is almost impossible to roll, because all of the weight is near the floor.
On a road very near my house they stopped using double deckers as there is a sharp corner/junction with an adverse camber. I have seen loads of double deckers with an inside rear wheel off the ground going around that corner in the past. I reckon they wouldn't have had to be going too much faster to roll it.
This accident caused by a septuagenarian driving a minibus and overtaking on a blind bend reminds me of a trip over the Snake Pass from Manchester airport. There but for the grace of God!
Father in law had booked a "taxi" for the airport trip and after the third overtake on a blind bend the ancient Transit driver got whacked round the head with my Daily Telegraph told to stop in the next layby.
Afterwards he did at least apologise and confessed he'd never had such a severe bollocking before in his entire life, which included his time in National Service! Yepp just a shade cross that day!
Father in law had booked a "taxi" for the airport trip and after the third overtake on a blind bend the ancient Transit driver got whacked round the head with my Daily Telegraph told to stop in the next layby.
Afterwards he did at least apologise and confessed he'd never had such a severe bollocking before in his entire life, which included his time in National Service! Yepp just a shade cross that day!
Peter Ward said:
I have never understood why coach/bus roofs seem so fragile. With the current focus on SUV rollover protection I wonder why the same efforts are not put into making coach/bus roof pillars capable of supporting the weight of the vehicle. It seems to me that the art of coach-building is still in the dark ages of "a truck chassis with seats".
They fold like deck chairs - almost
Below centre half of coach is where frame, engine and axles make up most of the weight - window frames and strength of the pillars between the windows cannot standthe weight - so it folds. (I think -
) Also higher luggage racks may have been pushed down onto people...
Very sad incident - know that road Hallein/Salzburg. Steep gradient - und not place to overtake.
Seat belts - in coaches - compulsory provision - wearing of them is compulsory in France. You as passenger would be fined. Sadly - this is not compulsory elsewhere. Apparently passenger survival in rollover tests depends on wearing of seatbelts ....
Mrs Fish said:
Crash coach was 'pushed off road'
A minibus overtaking a coach full of British tourists caused the devastating Austrian bus crash which killed five people, tour operator Inghams said.
The smaller vehicle overtook on a sharp corner, tried to avoid an oncoming car and ploughed into the bus, sending it off the steep mountain road.
Local emergency services said the five people who died were British and dozens more were injured in the accident near the town of Hallein, 25km from Salzburg. A total of 49 people were on board the bus - 42 Britons, three Germans, two Russians, an Australian tour guide and an Austrian driver when disaster struck on Tuesday.
Inghams, which organised the trip, flew 20 concerned relatives out to Austria to join their loved ones. Spokeswoman Lynsey Devon said: "The excursion coach was descending a mountain road when, whilst approaching a sharp bend, it was overtaken by a minibus.
"Whilst the minibus was overtaking, a car came in the opposite direction. The minibus swerved against the excursion coach and then also hit the oncoming car.
"The impact caused the coach to leave the road, roll over three times and fall some 60 metres into fields below resulting in the injuries to the passengers."
Dr Klaus Aigner, the district police captain in Hallein, announced the preliminary findings this morning. Drug and alcohol tests were carried out on all three drivers involved in the accident, but all proved negative.
Harald Hofmann, from the Federal Police in Salzburg, said it had proved difficult to identify the deceased because none of the passengers was carrying their passport at the time. Many of the seriously injured were too ill to identify themselves and so DNA tests will have to be carried out on those who died, he said.
Such an unecessary accident
One passenger reported that the coach was hit three times by the mini-bus.
"It wasn't until the third hit at the rear of the coach that we went off the road".
Sounds like a classic PIT or TVI manoeuvre.
mojocvh said:
Sounds like a classic PIT or TVI manoeuvre.
?
MoJo.
PIT? Pursuit Intervention Technique used by BiB where they nudge a vehicle sideways by driving alongside the pursued vehicle and then steering into it.
They push the back quarter behind the rear wheel sideways. Often results in the nudged vehicle doing a nice twirl.
TVI? Tactical Vehicle Intervention. Same thing.
See more here: www.policedriving.com/TVI.htm
tafia said:
Sounds like a classic PIT or TVI manoeuvre.
?
MoJo.
PIT? Pursuit Intervention Technique used by BiB where they nudge a vehicle sideways by driving alongside the pursued vehicle and then steering into it.
They push the back quarter behind the rear wheel sideways. Often results in the nudged vehicle doing a nice twirl.
TVI? Tactical Vehicle Intervention. Same thing.
See more here: www.policedriving.com/TVI.htm
cheers.
so minibus banged along side of big bus twice then got lucky (unlucky) third time.
They can be a pain in the arse on the road sometimes (busses) but if it goes wrong it goes wrong big time.
Best to chill and give 'em plenty of room.
MoJo.
ananova said:
So sorry, says Austria crash driver
The minibus driver facing charges over the Austrian death crash which killed five Britons and injured dozens more has told of his sorrow and regret.
The 70-year-old driver allegedly overtook the tour bus on a blind corner on a mountain road causing the coach to somersault down an embankment.
The driver faces charges of causing death by negligence, Austrian authorities announced.
The Times has named him as Johan Prettenthaler, a retired lorry driver who had been driving back to Saltzburg from Berchtesgaden in Germany with eight passengers when the accident happened.
He told the newspaper: "I am so sorry and I deeply regret what has happened. I would do anything to turn the clock back, to be given the chance to change the course of events.
"Nothing I could say could properly express my shame and I am frightened about how I am being judged in the eyes of the survivors.
"I keep turning the events around in my head and thinking about how things could have turned out differently."
The driver of the coach, 39-year-old Martin Faulhaber, claimed the minibus knocked his vehicle a fraction off course.
While revisiting the scene of the crash to light a candle, he said: "The minibus overtook me but there was a car coming towards us. I kept on driving but the wheel of the minibus was jammed into mine. I held on to the steering wheel with two hands but I could not move it."
Yesterday, the victims of the crash were named as: David Hamilton, 33, from Bournemouth; Marian Ashby, 80, and Robert Ashby, 60, from Hatfield, Hertfordshire; Claire Patel, 39, from Amersham, Buckinghamshire; and Rebecca Earland, 16, from Tonbridge in Kent.
zetec_s6 said:
Saw on the news this morning that the 70 year old driver of the minibus is facing charges of causing death by negligence.
What's the difference between death by negligence and death by dangerous driving?
Probably the difference between Austria and the UK. Why have a specific motoring offense when simple negligence will do and is a catch all. Oh sorry yeah, we have to keep lawyers in work in the UK, more offenses more lawyers, simple.
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