Speed limiter legislation from Jan1 2008
Discussion
Seeing there have been quite a few anti truck rants lately wondered what everyones views on the following is. (As if I can't guess)
EU directive 2002/85/EC will make limiters compulsory on all vehicles > 3.5t gvw, cutting legal maximum to 56mph.
At present the EU limit is 12t gvw but the UK has always gone further demanding limiters on trucks > 7.5t gvw.
Buses and coaches do not escape. Those with more than 8 passenger seats, irrespective of gvw will need a limiter restricting top speed to 100kph (62mph) Limiters at present only req'd in UK on PCV >7.5t gvw.
For both goods & passenger vehicles new EU legislation will apply to new vehicles reg'd on/after Jan 1 2005.
retrofit req'd by Jan 1 2006/2007 if vehicle has euro3 engine and used for international/domestic work appropriately.
Apparently most Euro 3 7.5 tonners are already fitted with limiters but "hardly any are set to the 85km/h necessary to satify the new law's 'cannot exceed 90 km/h' requirement"
AFAIK the UK Govt intends to delay the introduction of this by the maximum allowed 3 years. Hence Jan 1 2008 implementation at the very latest.
However took particular note today on a round trip 'oop North as to how much congestion was caused by elephant racing, and how much would be caused if LGV > 3.5t gvw also indulged.
Quite frankly came to the obvious conclusion this legislation foisted upon us by Brussels will be a disaster.
FiF
EU directive 2002/85/EC will make limiters compulsory on all vehicles > 3.5t gvw, cutting legal maximum to 56mph.
At present the EU limit is 12t gvw but the UK has always gone further demanding limiters on trucks > 7.5t gvw.
Buses and coaches do not escape. Those with more than 8 passenger seats, irrespective of gvw will need a limiter restricting top speed to 100kph (62mph) Limiters at present only req'd in UK on PCV >7.5t gvw.
For both goods & passenger vehicles new EU legislation will apply to new vehicles reg'd on/after Jan 1 2005.
retrofit req'd by Jan 1 2006/2007 if vehicle has euro3 engine and used for international/domestic work appropriately.
Apparently most Euro 3 7.5 tonners are already fitted with limiters but "hardly any are set to the 85km/h necessary to satify the new law's 'cannot exceed 90 km/h' requirement"
AFAIK the UK Govt intends to delay the introduction of this by the maximum allowed 3 years. Hence Jan 1 2008 implementation at the very latest.
However took particular note today on a round trip 'oop North as to how much congestion was caused by elephant racing, and how much would be caused if LGV > 3.5t gvw also indulged.
Quite frankly came to the obvious conclusion this legislation foisted upon us by Brussels will be a disaster.
FiF
Strange as it may seem, I would agree with the proposal. It cost me a lot of time, effort and money to learn how to drive a large goods vehicle safely. At present almost anyone with a car licence can nip off down to the hire shop and rent a small truck. These things are so easy to drive now, it is easy for the driver to forget he is actually driving a 7 tonne guided missile which will easily destroy anything it hits.
On the downside, at the moment they stay out of the way of the 56mph heavies, but I dread to think what will happen wen we are all thrown together.
Given the fact that to the public, a lorry is a lorry is a lorry and that the smaller ones need no vocational training it can be frustrating to see one badly driven. You just know that Mr and Mrs average in their Mondeo are ticking off another box in their "I Spy book of Naughty Truck Drivers". Agreed that some of my profession aren`t angels, but the 7.5 tonners help to give us the bad name we have.
Steve
On the downside, at the moment they stay out of the way of the 56mph heavies, but I dread to think what will happen wen we are all thrown together.
Given the fact that to the public, a lorry is a lorry is a lorry and that the smaller ones need no vocational training it can be frustrating to see one badly driven. You just know that Mr and Mrs average in their Mondeo are ticking off another box in their "I Spy book of Naughty Truck Drivers". Agreed that some of my profession aren`t angels, but the 7.5 tonners help to give us the bad name we have.
Steve
C C said:
Slowly but surely speed limiters on all vehicles will happen.
The technology exists already. The arguments against will Undoutably crumble. Only the time scale is uncertain.
This is a proposal that driving enthusiasts should reject totally in my view. I certainly do not want such a system, and I do not believe it would yield any benefit in road safety. At the very least it would merely substitute a fresh set of problems.
I'm strongly in favour of demolishing such a system by any means that present themselves, and if you are minded to preserve what remains of our motoring freedom I urge you to oppose this wretched scheme.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
C C said:
Slowly but surely speed limiters on all vehicles will happen.
The technology exists already. The arguments against will Undoutably crumble. Only the time scale is uncertain.
The directives and timescales are already in place - half of all cars across Europe fitted with GPS limiters by 2020. Of course this is using Europe's own GPS system which it is launching at the cost of billions of tax payers pounds as it feels the two existing system aren't good enough for it!
Stop the madness - Kick them out.
Just to clarify something, both towman and tripleS indicated that they think this is a proposal.
There is a current consultation out about some side technical issues see http://tinyurl.com/5d4wz
However please note the text in the consultation letter
There is a current consultation out about some side technical issues see http://tinyurl.com/5d4wz
However please note the text in the consultation letter
Hayley Bowen from Dept for Transport said:
The UK strongly opposed the adoption of Directive 2002/85/EC. However, it was alone in voting against it and now has no choice other than to implement its provisions.
There can be little doubt that as our society evolves even more the entire 'driving experience' will change, possibly more than we can imagine.
For example, I started driving in the late 50's when there were no speed limits outside built-up areas, few cars with any sort of real performance and, I believe, a better level of intelligence/ability from the average driver.
The changes in those 40+ years have been stupendous with the introduction of Motorways, national speed limits, very high performance cars (for example, a new Fiesta has about the same performance as a 1960 Austin-Healey 3000)driven by Mr. Average.
We will all have to adapt to the new technologies and accept their limitations, as we have in other areas of society and we shall really not be able to drive in the manner we used to. For myself, I have already had to change my driving style from that of my younger days, as may well be imagined.
The technology exists for overall control of vehicle speeds and it will permeate into production vehicles in time.
All generations have had to accept the march of progress, good and bad, and although one may not like it, it is inevitable.
Driving at highish speeds on public roads will become impossible, but motorsport will survive, so for those whose only pleasure is fast driving, get into proper motorsport.
Much as we would like to, we can't bury our heads in the sand and avoid the march of technology.
For example, I started driving in the late 50's when there were no speed limits outside built-up areas, few cars with any sort of real performance and, I believe, a better level of intelligence/ability from the average driver.
The changes in those 40+ years have been stupendous with the introduction of Motorways, national speed limits, very high performance cars (for example, a new Fiesta has about the same performance as a 1960 Austin-Healey 3000)driven by Mr. Average.
We will all have to adapt to the new technologies and accept their limitations, as we have in other areas of society and we shall really not be able to drive in the manner we used to. For myself, I have already had to change my driving style from that of my younger days, as may well be imagined.
The technology exists for overall control of vehicle speeds and it will permeate into production vehicles in time.
All generations have had to accept the march of progress, good and bad, and although one may not like it, it is inevitable.
Driving at highish speeds on public roads will become impossible, but motorsport will survive, so for those whose only pleasure is fast driving, get into proper motorsport.
Much as we would like to, we can't bury our heads in the sand and avoid the march of technology.
With all due respect to other feelings on this, I stand by what I have already said.
This speed limting business has obviously been proposed by some bodies, whether or not that includes our own government.
It appears that Cooperman and I have been driving for a similar length of time, so I also well remember (indeed very fondly remember) those first few years of no overall speed limit outside of built-up areas. Ever since the NSL was first introduced I have pretended that it did not exist.
There need be no inevitability about the imposition of speed limiters. If enough people will stand up together and tell the government we're not having it, then it could be killed off, and in my view that is exactly what should happen.
With regard to the government, I believe we should take the following attitude:
"We, the driving community, will play a full part in developing and maintaining all rational practical policies in the interests of achieving a substantial improvement in road safety, but we will not accept limitations on our freedom to decide for ourselves how we drive, so long as that freedom is exercised in a responsible manner that gives proper protection to all other road users".
OK so I may now be ridiculed for suggesting what is perhaps an unconventional, and maybe somewhat idealistic, approach. Well if that is the case, so be it, but I'm long past the stage of being inhibited on that account.
Make no mistake about this, I believe passionately in trying to make real progress in road safety, but I completely reject the notion of any further erosion of our freedom to enjoy driving.
If we could achieve what I would like to see, almost everyone should be satisfied with the result, apart from the control freaks of course, but we'll just have to shut them out. After all, their efforts so far have not yielded any nett benefit have they?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
This speed limting business has obviously been proposed by some bodies, whether or not that includes our own government.
It appears that Cooperman and I have been driving for a similar length of time, so I also well remember (indeed very fondly remember) those first few years of no overall speed limit outside of built-up areas. Ever since the NSL was first introduced I have pretended that it did not exist.
There need be no inevitability about the imposition of speed limiters. If enough people will stand up together and tell the government we're not having it, then it could be killed off, and in my view that is exactly what should happen.
With regard to the government, I believe we should take the following attitude:
"We, the driving community, will play a full part in developing and maintaining all rational practical policies in the interests of achieving a substantial improvement in road safety, but we will not accept limitations on our freedom to decide for ourselves how we drive, so long as that freedom is exercised in a responsible manner that gives proper protection to all other road users".
OK so I may now be ridiculed for suggesting what is perhaps an unconventional, and maybe somewhat idealistic, approach. Well if that is the case, so be it, but I'm long past the stage of being inhibited on that account.
Make no mistake about this, I believe passionately in trying to make real progress in road safety, but I completely reject the notion of any further erosion of our freedom to enjoy driving.
If we could achieve what I would like to see, almost everyone should be satisfied with the result, apart from the control freaks of course, but we'll just have to shut them out. After all, their efforts so far have not yielded any nett benefit have they?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Fair comments both Cooperman & TripleS.
This is only just one example of the lunatics in charge of the asylum syndrome.
I too can remember the 70 limit coming in but not old enough to drive. I have my own example of the way things have gone.
I regularly used to drive the A17 Newark - Kings Lynn. In those days almost the whole A17 was NSL, even through most of the villages. Excellent progress always possible, yet always drove appropriately and especially through the villages, often down at 30.
Now look at it, the whole road is a nightmare, cameras, hatchings, ghost islands, real islands, more white paint than in a B&Q distribution depot, overtaking opportunities almost absent, and where there is one a camera stands guard.
We've shouted like hell against this and where has it got us?
That is not to say we shouldn't oppose and as strongly as possible but…….
The politicians will react to only one thing, the likelihood that their personal gravy train will be derailed, ie votes going missing.
What is the alternative? Pull out of Europe seeing as this is EU legislation? Will that do any good?
What we, the motorist, needs is a political party which has the chance to get a decent shout and some influence. It has been proposed before
I don't know what else to suggest.
FiF
This is only just one example of the lunatics in charge of the asylum syndrome.
I too can remember the 70 limit coming in but not old enough to drive. I have my own example of the way things have gone.
I regularly used to drive the A17 Newark - Kings Lynn. In those days almost the whole A17 was NSL, even through most of the villages. Excellent progress always possible, yet always drove appropriately and especially through the villages, often down at 30.
Now look at it, the whole road is a nightmare, cameras, hatchings, ghost islands, real islands, more white paint than in a B&Q distribution depot, overtaking opportunities almost absent, and where there is one a camera stands guard.
We've shouted like hell against this and where has it got us?
That is not to say we shouldn't oppose and as strongly as possible but…….
The politicians will react to only one thing, the likelihood that their personal gravy train will be derailed, ie votes going missing.
What is the alternative? Pull out of Europe seeing as this is EU legislation? Will that do any good?
What we, the motorist, needs is a political party which has the chance to get a decent shout and some influence. It has been proposed before
streaky said:
"The Common Fecking Sense Party"
I don't know what else to suggest.
FiF
With regard to all the white paint and controls it is now becomming apparent via Dutch and Danish research that they actually make things worse.
The European gps is because the Little Europeans can't get over the fact we are using technology belonging to the enemy (America). They don't care about the cost because they don't have to go to the electorate to vote them in again. Even some democratic governments spend a lot but at least they have the "decency"
to hide them in stealth, lie and dress them up as being "for the environment" or "think of the children".
Politicians logic : "Something must be done. This is something. Therefore we must do it."
The European gps is because the Little Europeans can't get over the fact we are using technology belonging to the enemy (America). They don't care about the cost because they don't have to go to the electorate to vote them in again. Even some democratic governments spend a lot but at least they have the "decency"
to hide them in stealth, lie and dress them up as being "for the environment" or "think of the children". Politicians logic : "Something must be done. This is something. Therefore we must do it."
Flat in Fifth said:
I regularly used to drive the A17 Newark - Kings Lynn. In those days almost the whole A17 was NSL....
Presumably back in them days most cars would strugle to do 70 and there would have been a good few less cars about?
Now EVERYONE wants a piece of the road AND wants to drive their nova flat out at 90 3 inches from the bumper of the clio in front - It's my right innit?
Cooperman said:
There can be little doubt that as our society evolves even more the entire 'driving experience' will change, possibly more than we can imagine.
For example, I started driving in the late 50's when there were no speed limits outside built-up areas, few cars with any sort of real performance and, I believe, a better level of intelligence/ability from the average driver.
The changes in those 40+ years have been stupendous with the introduction of Motorways, national speed limits, very high performance cars (for example, a new Fiesta has about the same performance as a 1960 Austin-Healey 3000)driven by Mr. Average.
We will all have to adapt to the new technologies and accept their limitations, as we have in other areas of society and we shall really not be able to drive in the manner we used to. For myself, I have already had to change my driving style from that of my younger days, as may well be imagined.
The technology exists for overall control of vehicle speeds and it will permeate into production vehicles in time.
All generations have had to accept the march of progress, good and bad, and although one may not like it, it is inevitable.
Driving at highish speeds on public roads will become impossible, but motorsport will survive, so for those whose only pleasure is fast driving, get into proper motorsport.
Much as we would like to, we can't bury our heads in the sand and avoid the march of technology.
It's the march of Communism and Fascism and State control of everything we do.
cdp said:
The European gps is because the Little Europeans can't get over the fact we are using technology belonging to the enemy (America).
Not quite on the mark with this point. The problem with the (American) GPS is that they (the American Millitary) regularly and deliberately reduce the accuracy of the readings you get - in fact without using a differential system (where you can simulataneously read the postion of a known fixed receiver and compare it to the reading you are getting) your GPS location is usually anything upto 10-30 metres out. Some times worse sometimes better.
With a full Differential GPS you should be comfortably able to resolve sub metre and often down to 20cm accuracy provided your are within about 100km of a fixed base station.
Evidently this is useless for tracking vehicles hence the requirement to launch a new system under the administration of a European Agency where the accuracy can be controlled by them.
Interestingly, the current American system can yield extremely accurate results, I've seen reports of tests done in an area where a natural disaster or millitary excercise was going on where the accuracy was reliable to sub 5cm!!! However they very rarely switch it to this level.
best
Ex
mojocvh said:
"Speed" is just the smokescreen.
It's all about Control.
Control of everything that might mark you out as an individual.
Orwell was right on the money, just a couple of generations out.
MoJo.
These words he speaks are true.
The silent surrender to European socialism is very much akin to soft communism.
That is to say, forcing the individual's increasing dependancy on the works of government so that prevailing state activities and policies are by default, automatically accepted as the most desirous or sensible solution to any given issue.
In Britain, the Nulabians agenda - in cahoots with their buddies in certain media - ensure that issues like the health service and education are touted as being the issues that everybody's allegedly most concerned with.
Now, I don't wish to say these aren't matters of gravity, rather, that my instinct is to feel most peoples' primary concern resides with individualistic self-interest, essentially regarding their net position post-Dick Turpin pilferage of the pay packet.
Creeping legislation and taxation, from within (Whitehall) and/or without (Brussels), are the sticks by which such individualism is beaten out, softening populations up for more and more control and restraint whilst simultaneously managing to justify it's own corpulence.
I don't seriously believe too many bureaucrats consciously foister such 'Sir Humphreyesque' notions but like some international coup d'etat, the corrupt miasma of Kinnocktastic gravular lava seems inexorably to be heading this way.
The Eurofighter's first target should be the Europarl.
Hayley Bowen from Dept for Transport said:
The UK strongly opposed the adoption of Directive 2002/85/EC. However, it was alone in voting against it and now has no choice other than to implement its provisions.
We do have a choice though. We could tell them to 4 cough, like the French do. Why are we so spineless in the face of this crap?
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