If youve done the crime, done the time, are you done for?

[saaby93]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-1918...

beeb said:

Recalling the details of his offence, Mr Ashford said a group of boys from his school had persuaded him to go out with them and "I felt I had little choice".

He said: "We went to the railway embankment and I felt very uncomfortable about this.

"One of the lads pulled out an air gun and started shooting at cans. I never touched the air gun and felt unable to leave, as I was frightened at what might happen at school.

"A goods train passed and presumably the guard reported our presence to the police who arrived a short time later.

"The lads with the air gun ran away whilst I and two others froze and were arrested."

Mr Ashford said that to the best of his knowledge he was not questioned by police, but was told in court to plead guilty to both offences.

When is a spent conviction spent?
Is this disallowing good people from the job?

[pwrc]

bad luck for him, to be honest someone who has experience of both sides of the law is as valuable as someone with a clean sheet. and it's a shame people even blink at a bit of teenage boyishness 46 years ago

[Gixer]

They were talking about the trouble that people with a record have in getting a job on the radio a few weeks ago. Apparently ex armed robbers make great senior managers as they have great forward planning and management skills....

[selwonk]

Gixer said:

They were talking about the trouble that people with a record have in getting a job on the radio a few weeks ago. Apparently ex armed robbers make great senior managers as they have great forward planning and management skills....

But not that great, as they got caught!

[Somewhatfoolish]

pwrc said:

bad luck for him, to be honest someone who has experience of both sides of the law is as valuable as someone with a clean sheet. and it's a shame people even blink at a bit of teenage boyishness 46 years ago

I don't think anyone does blink at it. It's the moronic law that's the problem.

[SmoothCriminal]

Irony is he got his CRB back and it had no trace of his so called conviction guy got shafted for being honest and declaring it the fool.

[agtlaw]

saaby93 said:

when is a spent conviction spent?

they are never truly spent or at least never for court purposes.

edit: and the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act doesn't apply to quite a few professions.

Edited by agtlaw on Wednesday 8th August 20:17

[SmoothCriminal]

His conviction was spent but it does not matter regarding this role as he was convicted of an offence in which he could have been sent to prision so thy disqualifies him from the job.

[redgriff500]

SmoothCriminal said:

His conviction was spent but it does not matter regarding this role as he was convicted of an offence in which he could have been sent to prision so thy disqualifies him from the job.

I saw that mentioned in the article but no 13yr old in possession of an airgun would be sent to prison.

So perhaps the definition of offences needs tightening.

However I think that actually people who aren't don't have lily white pasts make better Police / employees.

[Aretnap]

saaby93 said:

When is a spent conviction spent?

Two and a half years after the conviction for a fine when you're under 18. In his case 1st July 1975, when the ROA came into force. But it doesn't apply in some situations, and it seems that this is one of them.

saaby93 said:

Is this disallowing good people from the job?

Probably, yes.

[Mojooo]

Where would you draw the line?

Murder 50 years ago?
Theft 10 years ago?
Assault 5 years ago?

[Aretnap]

Mojooo said:

Where would you draw the line?

Murder 50 years ago?
Theft 10 years ago?
Assault 5 years ago?

The law draws the lines set out here - http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/offenders/reha... though as noted there are exceptions to the acts.

For this particular case though here's a novel suggestion. As it's an elected position, require him to disclose the conviction and let the public decide. I'd like to think that most people wouldn't be too worried about a bit of teenage foolishness forty five years ago, but if they are they'll vote for someone else. If he'd been convicted of murder I don't imagine he'd get many votes.

Edited by Aretnap on Thursday 9th August 07:52

[Mill Wheel]

SmoothCriminal said:

Irony is he got his CRB back and it had no trace of his so called conviction guy got shafted for being honest and declaring it the fool.

You would have thought that it made him qualified for the job - not like various ex-politicians who are standing for election to the posts!

[McHaggis]

Personally I think we should let the electorate decide. For any conviction that long ago (lets say 20+ years ago), providing the conviction is stated on every electoral document, let the public decide.

That said, do the same barriers exist to MPs?

Reminds me of the old Blackadder sketch.

Blackadder: Now; any history of insanity in the family? Tell you what, I'll cross out the in. Any history of *sanity* in the family? None whatsoever. Now then; criminal record...

Baldrick: Absolutely not.

Blackadder: Oh, come on, Baldrick, you're going to be an MP, for God's sake! I'll just put fraud and sexual deviancy.

[wildoliver]

Sounds to me like we've lost an asset by him standing down.

Most wouldn't have declared it and taken the position having technically lied, not the greatest start.

It's a shame he sounds an honest bloke.

[richb77]

I worked with a guy (HONEST!) that was banged up for whacking someone 40 odd years ago when he was 20.

He told me that he always claimed a clean record when interviewing as he had lost more jobs than he cared to recall (even in later life) due to being honest.

He was one of the nicest, honest and hard working blokes I have ever come across. Yet the difficulties where all based on the actions (when I heard the story he was treated very harshly) of one drunken night out.

[creampuff]

McHaggis said:

Personally I think we should let the electorate decide. For any conviction that long ago (lets say 20+ years ago), providing the conviction is stated on every electoral document, let the public decide.

Well now that would be silly. To do this you would have to assume that the general public is capable of making a better decision than a committee deciding on somewhat arbitrary eligibility rlues.

[Somewhatfoolish]

Aren`t all your atoms different after seven years or thereabouts? That would seem a good cut off for any offence to me.

[prand]

SmoothCriminal said:

Irony is he got his CRB back and it had no trace of his so called conviction guy got shafted for being honest and declaring it the fool.

Until The Sun discover it (more like someone tips them off for £20), and he has to resign for dishonesty, or worse be prosecuted for lying.

[Aretnap]

richb77 said:

He told me that he always claimed a clean record when interviewing...

Assuming he was jailed for less than two and a half years, and he's not applying for jobs in fields where the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act doesn't apply (eg the police, jobs which involve working with children etc.) he's 100% entitled to do that. ROA section 4 (2)

statute said:

Subject to the provisions of any order made under subsection (4) below, where a question seeking information with respect to a person’s previous convictions, offences, conduct or circumstances is put to him or to any other person otherwise than in proceedings before a judicial authority—
(a)the question shall be treated as not relating to spent convictions or to any circumstances ancillary to spent convictions, and the answer thereto may be framed accordingly; and
(b)the person questioned shall not be subjected to any liability or otherwise prejudiced in law by reason of any failure to acknowledge or disclose a spent conviction or any circumstances ancillary to a spent conviction in his answer to the question.

Thinking about it, the principle of spent convictions couldn't work any other way. If he wasn't obliged to disclose the conviction, but wasn't allowed to claim a clean record instead, the interview would go something like this

Interviewer: Have you ever been convicted of a criminal offence?
Applicant: I'm not obliged to answer that question under the Rehabilitaion of Offenders Act
Interviewer: Next!