Going to court for speeding.
Discussion
Before I get comments about how I deserve it, I appreciate speeding isn't the best thing to do, but it's been done, and now just looking for some advise.
I am 19, so still within my first 2 years of driving so if I get 6 points my licence will be revoked.
So last month I was pulled over on the M5 at 10pm for speeding. The officer was a nice enough bloke, and talked me through it. In the car, all he said was he reached 100mph catching up to me.
I said yes, I was speeding, and he then went on to say I was being reported and I would likely get court papers through, this has since happened today.
The court are prosecuting me for going in excess of 70mph on a motorway. This part is correct. In the witness statement, the police officer has said I was caught driving in excess of 100mph. This is incorrect. I said early HE did that speed to catch up with me, and I honestly didn't go above 95mph.
Now the first question is, do I plead guilty? Yes, I am guilty to speeding, but not the alleged speed. There is nothing about an average speed, although I think it will be less than 90. If it is less than 90, I can qualify for only 3 points (I will be overjoy if this is the case).
There is also some justification as to why I hit 95; I know it is not an excuse, but this might help me. I was sat in the middle lane, about to overtake the car in front (at around 85-90 mph). There was a car in the fast lane (the unmarked car) matching my speed. I then slowed down to a maximum of 80 to let them overtake me, but they didn't. Thus, I accelerated going out in the fast lane to get past the car (this is where I hit 95) as otherwise I would have had to brake relativity hard, which I would have consider to be more unsafe.
I want to see the video which will show the police car's speed so I can build my case accordingly, can I see the evidence if I plead guilty?
How do I go about claiming the police story is incorrect, and getting the point across that I did't do 100, but the police car did?
The punishments I will get is a fine, likely to be around £300, and either 3-6 points or a 7 -56 day ban. If I get 3 points, that is end of story, if I get 6 points, my license would be revoked meaning I would have to do both parts of my test again. This will probably take a month at best to reapply for a provisional, and then book into both tests.
If I have a ban, I receive no points, so might seem the better option, however, both are like a ban to me.
Insurance wise, 6 points is about an other £100 a year so not too fussed, however a ban means my insurance will roughly double (around £1000 more!).
If you were in my situation, what would you try and go for?
If it helps, I need my car for work as I do around 20k miles a year, possibly could use this to try and hold onto my licence also?
Many thanks in advance
I am 19, so still within my first 2 years of driving so if I get 6 points my licence will be revoked.
So last month I was pulled over on the M5 at 10pm for speeding. The officer was a nice enough bloke, and talked me through it. In the car, all he said was he reached 100mph catching up to me.
I said yes, I was speeding, and he then went on to say I was being reported and I would likely get court papers through, this has since happened today.
The court are prosecuting me for going in excess of 70mph on a motorway. This part is correct. In the witness statement, the police officer has said I was caught driving in excess of 100mph. This is incorrect. I said early HE did that speed to catch up with me, and I honestly didn't go above 95mph.
Now the first question is, do I plead guilty? Yes, I am guilty to speeding, but not the alleged speed. There is nothing about an average speed, although I think it will be less than 90. If it is less than 90, I can qualify for only 3 points (I will be overjoy if this is the case).
There is also some justification as to why I hit 95; I know it is not an excuse, but this might help me. I was sat in the middle lane, about to overtake the car in front (at around 85-90 mph). There was a car in the fast lane (the unmarked car) matching my speed. I then slowed down to a maximum of 80 to let them overtake me, but they didn't. Thus, I accelerated going out in the fast lane to get past the car (this is where I hit 95) as otherwise I would have had to brake relativity hard, which I would have consider to be more unsafe.
I want to see the video which will show the police car's speed so I can build my case accordingly, can I see the evidence if I plead guilty?
How do I go about claiming the police story is incorrect, and getting the point across that I did't do 100, but the police car did?
The punishments I will get is a fine, likely to be around £300, and either 3-6 points or a 7 -56 day ban. If I get 3 points, that is end of story, if I get 6 points, my license would be revoked meaning I would have to do both parts of my test again. This will probably take a month at best to reapply for a provisional, and then book into both tests.
If I have a ban, I receive no points, so might seem the better option, however, both are like a ban to me.
Insurance wise, 6 points is about an other £100 a year so not too fussed, however a ban means my insurance will roughly double (around £1000 more!).
If you were in my situation, what would you try and go for?
If it helps, I need my car for work as I do around 20k miles a year, possibly could use this to try and hold onto my licence also?
Many thanks in advance
Wild Swordfish said:
Before I get comments about how I deserve it, I appreciate speeding isn't the best thing to do, but it's been done, and now just looking for some advise.
I am 19, so still within my first 2 years of driving so if I get 6 points my licence will be revoked.
So last month I was pulled over on the M5 at 10pm for speeding. The officer was a nice enough bloke, and talked me through it. In the car, all he said was he reached 100mph catching up to me.
I said yes, I was speeding, and he then went on to say I was being reported and I would likely get court papers through, this has since happened today.
The court are prosecuting me for going in excess of 70mph on a motorway. This part is correct. In the witness statement, the police officer has said I was caught driving in excess of 100mph. This is incorrect. I said early HE did that speed to catch up with me, and I honestly didn't go above 95mph.
Now the first question is, do I plead guilty? Yes, I am guilty to speeding, but not the alleged speed. There is nothing about an average speed, although I think it will be less than 90. If it is less than 90, I can qualify for only 3 points (I will be overjoy if this is the case).
There is also some justification as to why I hit 95; I know it is not an excuse, but this might help me. I was sat in the middle lane, about to overtake the car in front (at around 85-90 mph). There was a car in the fast lane (the unmarked car) matching my speed. I then slowed down to a maximum of 80 to let them overtake me, but they didn't. Thus, I accelerated going out in the fast lane to get past the car (this is where I hit 95) as otherwise I would have had to brake relativity hard, which I would have consider to be more unsafe.
I want to see the video which will show the police car's speed so I can build my case accordingly, can I see the evidence if I plead guilty?
How do I go about claiming the police story is incorrect, and getting the point across that I did't do 100, but the police car did?
The punishments I will get is a fine, likely to be around £300, and either 3-6 points or a 7 -56 day ban. If I get 3 points, that is end of story, if I get 6 points, my license would be revoked meaning I would have to do both parts of my test again. This will probably take a month at best to reapply for a provisional, and then book into both tests.
If I have a ban, I receive no points, so might seem the better option, however, both are like a ban to me.
Insurance wise, 6 points is about an other £100 a year so not too fussed, however a ban means my insurance will roughly double (around £1000 more!).
If you were in my situation, what would you try and go for?
If it helps, I need my car for work as I do around 20k miles a year, possibly could use this to try and hold onto my licence also?
Many thanks in advance
I am 19, so still within my first 2 years of driving so if I get 6 points my licence will be revoked.
So last month I was pulled over on the M5 at 10pm for speeding. The officer was a nice enough bloke, and talked me through it. In the car, all he said was he reached 100mph catching up to me.
I said yes, I was speeding, and he then went on to say I was being reported and I would likely get court papers through, this has since happened today.
The court are prosecuting me for going in excess of 70mph on a motorway. This part is correct. In the witness statement, the police officer has said I was caught driving in excess of 100mph. This is incorrect. I said early HE did that speed to catch up with me, and I honestly didn't go above 95mph.
Now the first question is, do I plead guilty? Yes, I am guilty to speeding, but not the alleged speed. There is nothing about an average speed, although I think it will be less than 90. If it is less than 90, I can qualify for only 3 points (I will be overjoy if this is the case).
There is also some justification as to why I hit 95; I know it is not an excuse, but this might help me. I was sat in the middle lane, about to overtake the car in front (at around 85-90 mph). There was a car in the fast lane (the unmarked car) matching my speed. I then slowed down to a maximum of 80 to let them overtake me, but they didn't. Thus, I accelerated going out in the fast lane to get past the car (this is where I hit 95) as otherwise I would have had to brake relativity hard, which I would have consider to be more unsafe.
I want to see the video which will show the police car's speed so I can build my case accordingly, can I see the evidence if I plead guilty?
How do I go about claiming the police story is incorrect, and getting the point across that I did't do 100, but the police car did?
The punishments I will get is a fine, likely to be around £300, and either 3-6 points or a 7 -56 day ban. If I get 3 points, that is end of story, if I get 6 points, my license would be revoked meaning I would have to do both parts of my test again. This will probably take a month at best to reapply for a provisional, and then book into both tests.
If I have a ban, I receive no points, so might seem the better option, however, both are like a ban to me.
Insurance wise, 6 points is about an other £100 a year so not too fussed, however a ban means my insurance will roughly double (around £1000 more!).
If you were in my situation, what would you try and go for?
If it helps, I need my car for work as I do around 20k miles a year, possibly could use this to try and hold onto my licence also?
Many thanks in advance
mike9009 said:
Try posting in the sub forum, speed, plod and the law. Many peeps should be able to help there.
Mike
He won't be able to as he's a new member. Need to be here for a fortnight before you're allowed to post in there. However a mod will move it in due time.Mike
you are legally entitled to all the evidence the prosecution has against you. they should have sent you some kind of pack outlining why you have been summoned to court and the evidence I think is in there. as for video evidence, you should be able to view that as well.
I would plead not guilty on the basis the prosecution material is factually wrong. It is up to them to prove your guilt, not for you to defend your innocence. So they must prove beyond all reasonable doubt that you were doing 100mph.
I would plead not guilty on the basis the prosecution material is factually wrong. It is up to them to prove your guilt, not for you to defend your innocence. So they must prove beyond all reasonable doubt that you were doing 100mph.
I was in a very similar situation to you when I was 18-19.
I got myself a solicitor and wrote one hell of a mitigation with letters from employer and people in the right places, and was fortunate enough to be issued 5 points and fined £200.
I still have those points but boy have I learned a lesson.
Good luck.
Mike
I got myself a solicitor and wrote one hell of a mitigation with letters from employer and people in the right places, and was fortunate enough to be issued 5 points and fined £200.
I still have those points but boy have I learned a lesson.
Good luck.
Mike
mikeplayer said:
I was in a very similar situation to you when I was 18-19.
I got myself a solicitor and wrote one hell of a mitigation with letters from employer and people in the right places, and was fortunate enough to be issued 5 points and fined £200.
I still have those points but boy have I learned a lesson.
Good luck.
Mike
Thank you for that Mike.I got myself a solicitor and wrote one hell of a mitigation with letters from employer and people in the right places, and was fortunate enough to be issued 5 points and fined £200.
I still have those points but boy have I learned a lesson.
Good luck.
Mike
I have taken legal advise and that is the plan to try and only get 5 points. I have tried googleing this but can't find any previous cases of only getting 4 or 5 points.
Do you mind me asking what speed you were caught doing?
Wild Swordfish said:
In the car, all he said was he reached 100mph catching up to me.
In the witness statement, the police officer has said I was caught driving in excess of 100mph. This is incorrect.
This doesn't seem to hang together. Most normal cars have very "optimistic" speedos and an indicated 95 would probably only be an actual speed in the 80s. Or do you use a GPS speedo?In the witness statement, the police officer has said I was caught driving in excess of 100mph. This is incorrect.
What I am saying is that if plod had to do 100 on his accurate speedo to catch you then it seems likely you had a very high reading on your car's speedo. Plod can only nick you if he has either hard evidence or two people agreeing on your speed. Have a look at this link,
http://www.bllaw.co.uk/services_for_individuals/mo...
Wild Swordfish said:
I want to see the video which will show the police car's speed so I can build my case accordingly, can I see the evidence if I plead guilty?
The real question is how much money you want to spend challenging the police evidence. I don't know how much it would cost you to hire a solicitor but I expect it would be a fair packet, win or lose. Also I believe there is a risk of a harsher penalty if the court thinks you are trying it on.http://www.speedingfinesuk.co.uk/speeding_fines_ev...
RevolveR said:
you are legally entitled to all the evidence the prosecution has against you. they should have sent you some kind of pack outlining why you have been summoned to court and the evidence I think is in there. as for video evidence, you should be able to view that as well.
I would plead not guilty on the basis the prosecution material is factually wrong. It is up to them to prove your guilt, not for you to defend your innocence. So they must prove beyond all reasonable doubt that you were doing 100mph.
The important bit is in bold - which is almost right.I would plead not guilty on the basis the prosecution material is factually wrong. It is up to them to prove your guilt, not for you to defend your innocence. So they must prove beyond all reasonable doubt that you were doing 100mph.
You are entitled to see the evidence that the CPS intends to use, or thinks relevant to your case.
If the police officer did not supply the video to the CPS then they don't need to supply you with it.
The cynic inside me, which grew from bitter experience, might say that the video may not be forthcoming.
My advice would be this:
If you are convicted for 100 plus, you will most likely get a ban. This will cost you a few hundred quid, and you'll have to declare this on your insurance for five years. As a young male driver, this will cost you possibly £4000 or more.
On that basis it is worthwhile employing a solicitor. I have the name of the specialist in the NW, but a local specialist is best, in case they need to come to court. The cost may be between £500 - £1000.
That'll sting, but it will sting less than four grand. First off, they'll go through the evidence with a fine tooth comb. Depending on the source of the evidence (VASCAR I presume?) you may have a getout. Even more so if it's merely opinion.
They'll probably also ask for the video to relate that to the evidence, to again look for leverage.
This leverage is given to the CPS to get them to either drop the case, or, to negotiate that you would plead guilty for say 80mph. The likely scenario is that they accept this, and you get 3-4 points.
What device did they catch you with? Vascar (timing you between set objects as a distance reference) or radar etc? The police have to time you for at least 1/4 of a mile, so they may be chancing their arm and hope that you plead guilty.
They must PROVE that you were speeding and give an exact speed, not "we had to do 100 mph to catch you"!
I would wait until you get the letter through stating EXACTLY what the charge is and HOW they caught you.
Relax and remember that the police are not always honest!
Cheers
They must PROVE that you were speeding and give an exact speed, not "we had to do 100 mph to catch you"!
I would wait until you get the letter through stating EXACTLY what the charge is and HOW they caught you.
Relax and remember that the police are not always honest!
Cheers
Burbleboy said:
What device did they catch you with? Vascar (timing you between set objects as a distance reference) or radar etc? The police have to time you for at least 1/4 of a mile, so they may be chancing their arm and hope that you plead guilty.
They must PROVE that you were speeding and give an exact speed, not "we had to do 100 mph to catch you"!
I would wait until you get the letter through stating EXACTLY what the charge is and HOW they caught you.
Relax and remember that the police are not always honest!
Cheers
They dont have to give an exact speed,this depends on how the speed is checked.They must PROVE that you were speeding and give an exact speed, not "we had to do 100 mph to catch you"!
I would wait until you get the letter through stating EXACTLY what the charge is and HOW they caught you.
Relax and remember that the police are not always honest!
Cheers
When I got done a couple of years ago I was charged with speeding between 100-110mph using a follow check method.I think,but stand to be corrected,that the officer checks your speed then matches it with his calibrated speedo over a set distance.As this method will never give an 100% accurate snapshot of the speed it is measured at an approximate speed.
This is legal and stood up in court.I got 5 weeks and no fine.It mattered not that I needed my car to commute 40 miles to work and back every day,still got the ban.
OP,good luck.
Ozzie Osmond said:
The real question is how much money you want to spend challenging the police evidence. I don't know how much it would cost you to hire a solicitor but I expect it would be a fair packet, win or lose. Also I believe there is a risk of a harsher penalty if the court thinks you are trying it on.
http://www.speedingfinesuk.co.uk/speeding_fines_ev...
Does that first link basically mean, that on a motorway or in speed restrcited roadworks, a bobby can prosecute for speeding, without any sort of calibrated speedo, Vascar, speed laser or whatever? And it's then down to the court to decide whether the bobby is accurate/credible?http://www.speedingfinesuk.co.uk/speeding_fines_ev...
And secondly, if two bobbies are in the same vehicle, and can witness you speeding on their own speedo (none-calibrated, no vascar etc) then this will likely stick at court?
defblade said:
IF they "had" to do 100mph to catch up with you, that PROVES you were doing less than 100mph, or they could NOT have caught up by doing 100mph. QED, next case please.
(Assuming everything is exactly as presented by OP)
When I got stopped on the M27 the Officer said the same thing except it was 95mph. As he was static on a junction bridge when I went under him it was no surprise that even at the 70mph I was doing as I went under him, that he would have to do considerably more to catch me up.(Assuming everything is exactly as presented by OP)
I don't know why they do it, perhaps it is something they are taught at driving school.
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