What Use Are Talivans When...

[WildCat]

"we are puzzled why accidents happen along that stretch of the motorway. It is halfway along the M4 between London and Wales and fatigue could be a factor " per Wiltshire Police in "Mail On Sunday" page 15 and quoted by Martin Delgado in his report.

He writes that camera speed traps are to deployed along the M4 motorway bridges in fresh onslaught against motorists.

Wiltshire so-called safety wallies were denied Gatsos "because drivers may drive into them" and so decided on mobiles between Swindon and Chippenham.

The littel white talivans are to be perched on the 7 bridges targetting drivers in both directions. If deemed successful - the scheme will be extended for entire length of M4 - making this the most photographed m/way in EU....

The journalist rightly warns that drivers may be concentrating on hazards on bridges, dashboards instead of brake lights of cars ahead...

The SCPS want to place scams on roads with no accident history following planned relaxation of rules ( which they take no notice of anyway

Motoring organisations claim rightly that police (but really SCPs ) are obsessed with speed cameras whilst ignoring other ways of improving road safety. RAC calls for action against L2/L3 hoggers and tailgater.

Wiltshire SCP's Speedfinder General Dave Frampton claims this measure is to "reduce accidents and not fine motorists"

And the Police think it is down to fatigue .....

I know what I think .... and I think Wiltshire Police are really in support of yet more talivans....

Perhaps this SCP would prevent more accidents if they ran half decent campaign warning of dangers of driving "whilst under the weather"

Not - of course that I am biased in any way....having experienced at first hand what "driving whilst under the weather" actually means ......

To SCPs
GET YOUR PRIORITIES RIGHT!

[zoomzoomzoom]

I think you're missing the point. If fatigue is a major cause of these accidents, then sending the "almost asleep" driver a letter in the post 14 days later usually causes them to wake up and drive with more concentration. This method typically works best with those who can see 14 days into the future - so Mystic Meg won't be getting any points on her licence on the M4.

One life saved is better than none. Think of the children - if you receive a NIP in the post, go back in time and drive more carefully and slowly past the hidden speed camera van. Under no circumstances pay any attention to other road users etc - split your concentration equally between your speedometer and the top of your windscreen - at bridge height.

[Pigeon]

It's this bit that gets me:

WildCat said:

Wiltshire so-called safety wallies were denied Gatsos "because drivers may drive into them"

If people in Wiltshire are likely to drive into big yellow boxes which aren't even on the road, remind me to stay away from the place!

[MMC]

WildCat said:

To SCPs GET YOUR PRIORITIES RIGHT!

They have. Just for them, not us - and certainly not for road safety.

£er-chingggg

"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong."

H. L. Mencken

[cortinaman]

scamera partnerships love spewing excrement as its their number 1 passtime....afaik apart from making up stats,ripping off drivers for going 0.000000001mph over the nsl on a motorway,they make absolutely no diffrence to any of the real safety issues on our roads,and when something doesnt work you throw it away.

they are nothing but lying,money grabbing,thieving scumbag bastards!!

(not that im bias or anything......but just like the scamera partnerships,im never wrong,and when i am i try to keep spewing bullshit until everyone else believes im right!)

did you know that you could buy the broklyn bridge,hire a do-do or even buy an edible pot-noodle from gap??.........see,im brilliant at it!

[nel]

WildCat said:

"we are puzzled why accidents happen along that stretch of the motorway. It is halfway along the M4 between London and Wales and fatigue could be a factor "

....because drivers are falling asleep doing 70 mph through lack of stimulation. Let them put their foot down a bit, shorter journey time, a little frisson of adrenalin to keep them going. But DON'T stick licence threatening distractions on bridges so that they stop looking at the road.

Bloody hell, between looking at the speedo to avoid straying too far beyond the limit, and keeping a sharp look out for speeding cameras, the rear of the car in front receives less and less attention.

[bennyboysvuk]

If they just raised the speed limit to 100, there'd be no more speeders, no more breaking the law, no reason for any mobile scamera units and several more BiB available for proper police business. It's such a simple solution. If only....

[superlightr]

its more dangerous to keep searching every bridge and behind bridges to see if anything is on it then to keep an eye on the traffic. Every second looking at a bridge is a second not looking at the road.

[plotloss]

superlightr said:

Every second looking at a bridge is a second not looking at the road.

I can only be a matter of time before someone says in court 'Sorry I didnt see the little boy, I was concentrating on my speedo'

[Streetcop]

While I can see your point..

If someone can't monitor their speed and avoid hitting pedestrians, should they really hold a driving licence?

Street

[nel]

Hang on Street - I know you were just reacting to the flattened kid comment but remember we're talking M-ways here.

You have to agree that it's very easy on a M-way for someone who wants to be cruising at 75 mph, to find that the speedo has crept up to 85 mph on a downhill stretch. Hence eyes flicking down frequently to protect licence and not looking ahead/in mirror to protect body. Add to that scamera paranoia and it just gets worse.

While I think driving on cruise control is a bit boring, it's definitely a licence saver as the "speedo watch" task is eliminated.

[Streetcop]

Hi Nel..

Yep you're right...my original comments were aimed at the child accident business.

However, my view still stands...A driver who has been driving for a number of years, should be able to guage his/her speed limit to a couple of mph without having to look at the speedo.

We all know when we are 'speeding'..if we seem to the the quickest thing on the motorway, you can bet you're exceeding 70mph. Same on other roads.

I just think it's a poor excuse that the driver needs to be constantly checking the speedometer to see what speed he/she is doing. In addition, the regular glancing at the speedometer actually increases observations at the optic nerves get a rest from the distance viewed for a fraction of a second to look at the speedo, then back again towards the horizon. Re-focusing can improve sharpness. (According to my Optician mate)

Street

[mechsympathy]

Streetcop said:

If someone can't monitor their speed and avoid hitting pedestrians, should they really hold a driving licence?

But which is most important from a safety point of view, and which is going to get most attention from someone in the real world.

Unfortunately, many people fail to pay enough attention to all aspects of their driving. This means that if you increase the threat to them (ie license loss) they will get more distracted from the important job of looking where they are going.

[GregE240]

Streetcop said:

While I can see your point.. If someone can't monitor their speed and avoid hitting pedestrians, should they really hold a driving licence? Street

Or actually...

WTF was a kid doing on the motorway in the first place?

We're talking motorways here, don't cloud the issue with that heart-string tugging, jingoistic bollocks. This is Pistonheads, not numptytwats.com, officer.

[cuneus]

"should be able to guage his/her speed to a couple of mph without having to look at the speedo."

Well I can't

[Streetcop]

mechsympathy said:

Unfortunately, many people fail to pay enough attention to all aspects of their driving. This means that if you increase the threat to them (ie license loss) they will get more distracted from the important job of looking where they are going.

You have to do something...what's the alternative? Let everyone drive around at whatever speed they like, as looking at their speedometer might otherwise distract them.

I've personally never attended or even heard of a RTC where the driver has claimed to be more concerned over his/her speedo than what's in the road in front of them.

I, like everyone else on here, are against GASTOs/Scameras/Truvelos etc and want more Trafpol. However, the arguement that speed limit enforcement makes people concentrate more on the speedometer and not the road isn't going to convince me.

I like to 'make good progress' at times, especially on my motorbike, but I know what speed i'm doing all the time and none of it is a 'mystery.'

Street

[TripleS]

bennyboysvuk said:

If they just raised the speed limit to 100, there'd be no more speeders, no more breaking the law, no reason for any mobile scamera units and several more BiB available for proper police business. It's such a simple solution. If only....

I doubt if that would be enough to ensure there would be no more speeders, but it's a useful step in the right direction, so can we start with that and move on from there?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

Streetcop said:

A driver who has been driving for a number of years, should be able to guage his/her speed limit to a couple of mph without having to look at the speedo.

Well I must be seriously lacking in certains skills then, as I often find the speed creeps up to well above the level I had intended to drive at.

To be honest, while I try to keep reasonably to the limits in built up areas, on the open road I just travel at speeds that feel appropriate and safe in the light of all the circumstances prevailing at the time.

A couple of months ago travelling south on the M1 I was intending to keep the speed to no more than about 80 mph, but I came to a section where the traffic was very light, and when I checked the speedometer I found the speed had crept up to about 100 mph.

That is what I find happens in my case, so maybe I should look at the speedometer more frequently.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Streetcop]

Hi Dave.

I don't profess to being an expert driver or in any case faultless...but speed estimation, I find very easy.

It might just be me...

I will ask my colleagues later today...

Street

[mechsympathy]

Streetcop said:

You have to do something...what's the alternative? Let everyone drive around at whatever speed they like, as looking at their speedometer might otherwise distract them.

I'm not saying that at all. What will make things safer is education, and catching the dangerous and the piss-takers.

Streetcop said:

I've personally never attended or even heard of a RTC where the driver has claimed to be more concerned over his/her speedo than what's in the road in front of them.

I wouldn't admit to that if it was true either.

Streetcop said:

I, like everyone else on here, are against GASTOs/Scameras/Truvelos etc and want more Trafpol. However, the arguement that speed limit enforcement makes people concentrate more on the speedometer and not the road isn't going to convince me.

In the good old days, when you saw a trafpol car, you'd back off secure in the knowledge that unless you were taking the piss you'd be fine. You didn't brake hard, cos that would draw attention to you and get you a well justified pull.

These days people slam on the anchors, swerve into other lanes etc secure in the knowledge that as long as they are doing the magic number for 30 yards they won't get any points. This is made worse by the number of people who don't know what the fking speed limit is and brake from their default 40 mph to 30 (generally in a 50/60 zone)

Streetcop said:

I like to 'make good progress' at times, especially on my motorbike, but I know what speed i'm doing all the time and none of it is a 'mystery.' Street

Yes, I agree. And I will concede that you've got to be driving very badly to be so distracted by a speedo that that in itself causes you to crash. But...

Earlier I said:

Unfortunately, many people fail to pay enough attention to all aspects of their driving. This means that if you increase the threat to them (ie license loss) they will get more distracted from the important job of looking where they are going.

And I stand by that. Perhaps I should have added: And reduce the amount of actual decision making and thought involved.