Motorcycle visibility
Discussion
For the bikers amongst you..
Do you ever wear flourescent/luminous clothing at any time?
One of these such things, kept under the seat for when the weather turns in, or if out at night is a real life safer...(tea time on a motorway isn't a place to start 'blending in' with other traffic!)
Available from www.respro.com
Street
Do you ever wear flourescent/luminous clothing at any time?
One of these such things, kept under the seat for when the weather turns in, or if out at night is a real life safer...(tea time on a motorway isn't a place to start 'blending in' with other traffic!)
Available from www.respro.com
Street
Gareth, devil's advocate here. Do you honestly think that wearing one of these makes a blind (ha!) bit of difference? I wear bright leathers (dayglow orange 
) and I ride a very large motorcycle with a retina-frazzling headlight permanently switched on. I still have to ride defensively because I regularly find other road users can't see me/won't see me/couldn't give a damn. If a bike is obscured behind a poorly engineered A pillar, brightness doesn't help at all. If the driver is myopic, inattentive or wilfully arrogant it won't help either. Under what circumstances do you see a dayglow jacket being of any use whatsoever?
>> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Monday 23 August 11:54
) and I ride a very large motorcycle with a retina-frazzling headlight permanently switched on. I still have to ride defensively because I regularly find other road users can't see me/won't see me/couldn't give a damn. If a bike is obscured behind a poorly engineered A pillar, brightness doesn't help at all. If the driver is myopic, inattentive or wilfully arrogant it won't help either. Under what circumstances do you see a dayglow jacket being of any use whatsoever? >> Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Monday 23 August 11:54
The wearing of such a garment increased your presence to other road users by 000s%....
On motorways it increases your visibility to lane changers.
On standard roads it can help dramatically in wet weather, when wing mirrors of cars are smeared.
Roundabout are a particular problem for motorcyclists as car drivers approach, look for headlights of a car, don't see them and pull out. Motorcycles have by their very nature nothing reflective at the sides. Such a jacket can stand you out to such approaching drivers.
When other vehicle have their headlights on, motorcyclists can often 'blend' in other traffic. A vehicle emerging from a side road, will often pull out into the path of a motorcyclist believing the bike was much further away...The wearing of such a jacket improves the distance judging of other road users.
Having said all that...if the jacket saves your life once..has it been worth it?
Street
On motorways it increases your visibility to lane changers.
On standard roads it can help dramatically in wet weather, when wing mirrors of cars are smeared.
Roundabout are a particular problem for motorcyclists as car drivers approach, look for headlights of a car, don't see them and pull out. Motorcycles have by their very nature nothing reflective at the sides. Such a jacket can stand you out to such approaching drivers.
When other vehicle have their headlights on, motorcyclists can often 'blend' in other traffic. A vehicle emerging from a side road, will often pull out into the path of a motorcyclist believing the bike was much further away...The wearing of such a jacket improves the distance judging of other road users.
Having said all that...if the jacket saves your life once..has it been worth it?
Street
If you come off and are lying in a ditch it is a lot easier to find you as well.. Has not happened to me, but To someone I once met.. He had come off of his bike and both he and his bike left the road.. The bright coloured jacket was caught in a police cars lights and they decided to see what it was.. Other wise he could still be there today..
But how is a bright jacket more visible than bright leathers? If a driver can't see a brightly dressed 16st bloke on a 1200CC motorcycle with lights on, why should he spot an extra little bit of yellow or orange?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for riders making themselves as visible as possible. I will do anything I can to prolong my life (at least until Blair gets voted in next time...). This includes what I wear, what I ride and how I ride it. If wearing a Sam Browne or a dayglow jacket achieved this, I'd wear it. I honestly don't think it makes any difference though.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for riders making themselves as visible as possible. I will do anything I can to prolong my life (at least until Blair gets voted in next time...). This includes what I wear, what I ride and how I ride it. If wearing a Sam Browne or a dayglow jacket achieved this, I'd wear it. I honestly don't think it makes any difference though.
Mon Ami Mate said:
But how is a bright jacket more visible than bright leathers? If a driver can't see a brightly dressed 16st bloke on a 1200CC motorcycle with lights on, why should he spot an extra little bit of yellow or orange?
You a Suzuki Bandit rider? Or BMW K1200RS?
If you've got bright yellows, you might be ok during the day. However, as night you'll need something reflective and the strips and seams on some jackets are ok when you shine a torch at them in your dark garage, but are bugger all use on the road. Then you'll need a hi-viz.
In addition, bright leathers/cordura isn't very common...the vast majority of bikers I see, ride in black leather or fabric jackets and black jeans. Often not even a white or light coloured helmet is even worn. Yeah, I agree you look cool and menacing in black leather, black helmet and dark visor, but how menacing that looks under the wheels of a car hasn't been catered for.[/quote]
Have you taken any advanced tuition/tests monami?
Street
Interesting link to another post on the board - How to Spot an Unmarked BiB...
"Always a hi-vizability belt or waist coat ( normally the belt with single diagonal across one shoulder front and back ). Therefore if you see a large capacity motorcycle, white helmet, black jacket and hi-viz belt slow down."
Police riders aren't daft - they spend a lot of time on the bike and have a particular aversion to being knocked off. I reckon that makes them a good example to follow - get yourself trained and get yourself a yellow jacket.
From a wholly unscientific sample of 1 (ie - me), I now ride in full leathers with a flourescent jacket and a white helmet. It makes a BIG difference. When I don't, despite being on a large capacity, tall bike, light on, people don't see me. In the jacket they see me much, much more. Riding down the M40 some mornings is a bit like being Moses watching the Red Sea parting...
Even so, there are always the numpties who manage to miss me. I had a quiet word with a lady in a Mondeo estate earlier this year who pulled out straight in front of me. I'd assumed she would, so was ready... when we met again at the traffic lights she got half way through "Sorry - I didn't see..." when she realised how daft it sounded; saying this to a big bloke in a bright yellow jacket with his headlight on.
But that happens a LOT less than when I just wore the leathers without the jacket.
I look like a ruddy Christmas tree, and have all the biker cool points of dad dancing at a disco, but at least I've got a better chance (I reckon) of getting home alive.
MMC (da-glo version)
P.S. Anyone want to sell me a white pan European with some nice blue stripes?
"Always a hi-vizability belt or waist coat ( normally the belt with single diagonal across one shoulder front and back ). Therefore if you see a large capacity motorcycle, white helmet, black jacket and hi-viz belt slow down."
Police riders aren't daft - they spend a lot of time on the bike and have a particular aversion to being knocked off. I reckon that makes them a good example to follow - get yourself trained and get yourself a yellow jacket.
From a wholly unscientific sample of 1 (ie - me), I now ride in full leathers with a flourescent jacket and a white helmet. It makes a BIG difference. When I don't, despite being on a large capacity, tall bike, light on, people don't see me. In the jacket they see me much, much more. Riding down the M40 some mornings is a bit like being Moses watching the Red Sea parting...
Even so, there are always the numpties who manage to miss me. I had a quiet word with a lady in a Mondeo estate earlier this year who pulled out straight in front of me. I'd assumed she would, so was ready... when we met again at the traffic lights she got half way through "Sorry - I didn't see..." when she realised how daft it sounded; saying this to a big bloke in a bright yellow jacket with his headlight on.
But that happens a LOT less than when I just wore the leathers without the jacket.
I look like a ruddy Christmas tree, and have all the biker cool points of dad dancing at a disco, but at least I've got a better chance (I reckon) of getting home alive.
MMC (da-glo version)
P.S. Anyone want to sell me a white pan European with some nice blue stripes?
Good post mate..
I know you're joking, but have a look at:
www.forcemotorcycles.com/
Street
MMC said:
P.S. Anyone want to sell me a white pan European with some nice blue stripes?
I know you're joking, but have a look at:
www.forcemotorcycles.com/
Street
Streetcop said:
But how is a bright jacket more visible than bright leathers? If a driver can't see a brightly dressed 16st bloke on a 1200CC motorcycle with lights on, why should he spot an extra little bit of yellow or orange?
You a Suzuki Bandit rider? Or BMW K1200RS?
If you've got bright yellows, you might be ok during the day. However, as night you'll need something reflective and the strips and seams on some jackets are ok when you shine a torch at them in your dark garage, but are bugger all use on the road. Then you'll need a hi-viz.
In addition, bright leathers/cordura isn't very common...the vast majority of bikers I see, ride in black leather or fabric jackets and black jeans. Often not even a white or light coloured helmet is even worn. Yeah, I agree you look cool and menacing in black leather, black helmet and dark visor, but how menacing that looks under the wheels of a car hasn't been catered for.
Have you taken any advanced tuition/tests monami?
Street
[/quote] I have a ZZR1200. I have dayglow orange leathers and I'm front-row forward shaped.
I've been riding continually since I was 16 (that's 20 years) on four different continents. In addition to road riding I've raced short circuit and enduro and I reckon I've covered well over a million miles on motorcycles.
I haven't taken any formal advanced tuition, although I do have a friend who is ex Thames Valley who I have ridden with regularly who always comments positively on my observational and positional skills. I do believe that this is the reason why I've never had any points on my licence and why I'm still around when a lot of bike riding mates from down the years are not.
I know that my bike skills make me an infinitely better car driver.
I don't think I have nothing to learn and I'd certainly like to do an IAM course on the bike, but haven't got around to it yet, despite good intentions.
Streetcop said:
Good post mate..
MMC said:
P.S. Anyone want to sell me a white pan European with some nice blue stripes?
I know you're joking, but have a look at:
www.forcemotorcycles.com/
Street
Thanks Street. Yes, I was joking, but I live just down the road from the police bike auctions and you've got me thinking now!
Nice white Pan... mmmm
Mon Ami Mate said:
If a bike is obscured behind a poorly engineered A pillar, brightness doesn't help at all.
You aint kidding there, I just spent a week driving a brand new Renault Megane Scenic, damn 'A' posts, couldnt see around corners in the bloody thing, which was a real pain on the mountain roads with tight bends, and at junctions, couldnt see cars properly, let alone bikes. Worst visibility I have ever experienced in a car. I had to actually work twice as hard to drive the damn thing and watch my visibility, and I still nearly missed things!
Then to cap it all, I read in the Sunday Times Driving section an article about just this very thing, just as I had been driving one.
What is the point of this car having five stars and all that if it is a potential killer.
Safety groups should campaign against them, I was glad to get out of it, it was like driving wearing blinkers.
Streetcop said:
Available from www.respro.com
Street
You are not supposed to advertise on here you know.
Streetcop will smile at that, for anyone who does not it was sarcasm.
If you can't spot my big bright red Drifter coming then you won't see the Metro/Micra/Starlet etc. that your doddery old pals drive either ! I favour the reflective piping material, it doesn't look obtrusive yet shows up well in lights as bright stripes.
Oh yes, and I wear leather trousers and gloves which your bloke in the picture seems to think unnecessary !!
Oh yes, and I wear leather trousers and gloves which your bloke in the picture seems to think unnecessary !!
Streetcop said:
Available from <a href="http://www.respro.com">www.respro.com</a>
Street
Now what's the point of looking like a tit in the day-glow top if your just going to wear jeans, without gloves as well, posing gits on their on a Ducatis eh
Personally I either wear my bright red Aprilia fleece or dark blue PH fleece over my leathers (keeps the midges off).
I've still had people pull out in front of me, even wearing the Aprilia one which is very visible, and that combined with a race can and the headlights permanently on, oh and the worst one had his window was wound down, so blind as well as deaf... stupid c
ts >> Edited by rsvnigel on Monday 23 August 22:52
Mon Ami Mate said:
Surprised nobody has commented upon Mon Ami Mate said:
with a retina-frazzling headlight permanently switched on.
Why?
Well they *are* a pain in the arse sometimes. Perhaps bikers don't realise - because they are sat higher - that the high-intensity headlights some of them fit to their machines are pretty much at eye level for most car drivers. They can be momentarily blinding even in broad daylight, in which case they are more of a danger than they are a help.
By the nature of the animal, the vast majority of bikers are enthusiasts and therefore take more interest in their riding skill than the vast majority of car drivers who are just travelling from A to B - many of them on cloud 9. By the same theory, bikers are more inclined to ride more enthusiastically and with modern bikes being able to change their speed very rapidly, I'm sure many accidents occur because older; inexperienced; unattentive mundane car drivers misjudge the closing speed of a sports bike... perhaps some riders could take a bit more care when in busy traffic.
An example of this is an accident I saw the aftermath of, two weeks ago... a sports bike travelling along a dual carrigeway and negotiating a roundabout, had hit a Peugeot hatchback... it was obvious what had happened from the position of both vehicles; the car had obviously pulled out from the road joining the roundabout from the left and the bike had hit it in the drivers side rear quarter, with such force that it had spun the car around and perched its rear wheels on the centre reservation... the bike had then slid up the carriageway a bit. Now I'm guessing because I didn't see it happen, but the Peugeot driver was an old man... he probably looked to his right and saw nothing, or saw a bike in the distance, then by the time he had looked ahead and pulled away (misjudging the bike's closing speed) slowly, the bike, committed to the speed he was taking the roundabout at, was on top of him. Fortunately no-one as hurt, even the biker, who appeared to be no spring chicken himself.
Mon Ami Mate said:
Surprised nobody has commented upon Mon Ami Mate said:
with a retina-frazzling headlight permanently switched on.
Why?
Well they *are* a pain in the arse sometimes. Perhaps bikers don't realise - because they are sat higher - that the high-intensity headlights some of them fit to their machines are pretty much at eye level for most car drivers. They can be momentarily blinding even in broad daylight, in which case they are more of a danger than they are a help.
By the nature of the animal, the vast majority of bikers are enthusiasts and therefore take more interest in their riding skill than the vast majority of car drivers who are just travelling from A to B - many of them on cloud 9. By the same theory, bikers are more inclined to ride more enthusiastically and with modern bikes being able to change their speed very rapidly, I'm sure many accidents occur because older; inexperienced; unattentive mundane car drivers misjudge the closing speed of a sports bike... perhaps some riders could take a bit more care when in busy traffic.
An example of this is an accident I saw the aftermath of, two weeks ago... a sports bike travelling along a dual carrigeway and negotiating a roundabout, had hit a Peugeot hatchback... it was obvious what had happened from the position of both vehicles; the car had obviously pulled out from the road joining the roundabout from the left and the bike had hit it in the drivers side rear quarter, with such force that it had spun the car around and perched its rear wheels on the centre reservation... the bike had then slid up the carriageway a bit. Now I'm guessing because I didn't see it happen, but the Peugeot driver was an old man... he probably looked to his right and saw nothing, or saw a bike in the distance, then by the time he had looked ahead and pulled away (misjudging the bike's closing speed) slowly, the bike, committed to the speed he was taking the roundabout at, was on top of him. Fortunately no-one as hurt, even the biker, who appeared to be no spring chicken himself.
Mon Ami Mate said:
Surprised nobody has commented upon Mon Ami Mate said:
with a retina-frazzling headlight permanently switched on.
Why?
Well they *are* a pain in the arse sometimes. Perhaps bikers don't realise - because they are sat higher - that the high-intensity headlights some of them fit to their machines are pretty much at eye level for most car drivers. They can be momentarily blinding even in broad daylight, in which case they are more of a danger than they are a help.
By the nature of the animal, the vast majority of bikers are enthusiasts and therefore take more interest in their riding skill than the vast majority of car drivers who are just travelling from A to B - many of them on cloud 9. By the same theory, bikers are more inclined to ride more enthusiastically and with modern bikes being able to change their speed very rapidly, I'm sure many accidents occur because older; inexperienced; unattentive mundane car drivers misjudge the closing speed of a sports bike... perhaps some riders could take a bit more care when in busy traffic.
An example of this is an accident I saw the aftermath of, two weeks ago... a sports bike travelling along a dual carrigeway and negotiating a roundabout, had hit a Peugeot hatchback... it was obvious what had happened from the position of both vehicles; the car had obviously pulled out from the road joining the roundabout from the left and the bike had hit it in the drivers side rear quarter, with such force that it had spun the car around and perched its rear wheels on the centre reservation... the bike had then slid up the carriageway a bit. Now I'm guessing because I didn't see it happen, but the Peugeot driver was an old man... he probably looked to his right and saw nothing, or saw a bike in the distance, then by the time he had looked ahead and pulled away (misjudging the bike's closing speed) slowly, the bike, committed to the speed he was taking the roundabout at, was on top of him. Fortunately no-one as hurt, even the biker, who appeared to be no spring chicken himself.
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