What part of the car applies to double yellows ?
Discussion
Something posted in the "contesting an unreasonable fine" thread got me thinking.
I have always thought that if my tyres were clear of the end of the double yellow lines, even if the car overhung a bit I was OK, and I have never had a ticket for doing so, I even make a point of parking as close to the end to give other users a bit more space if the end of the parking area is clear.
Have I been wrong and just lucky ?
I have always thought that if my tyres were clear of the end of the double yellow lines, even if the car overhung a bit I was OK, and I have never had a ticket for doing so, I even make a point of parking as close to the end to give other users a bit more space if the end of the parking area is clear.
Have I been wrong and just lucky ?
Technically , any part of a vehicle projecting beyond the boundary of a parking bay can result in a ticket , even if all four wheels are within the bay .
In practice , it seems not usually to be enforced for 'minor' overhangs .
I have personal knowledge , however , of a colleague in a place I used to work who parked his Mercedes Sprinter delivery van tightly within an Edinburgh meter bay , but as soon as he opened the back doors to unload , the waiting 'enforcer' pounced and gave him a ticket for the overhanging door ! That incident made the front page of the Evening News and is typical of the 'zero tolerance' attitude the privatised Edinburgh wardens have become famous for .
Another pictureI recall seeing on here , this time London based IIRC was a car reverse parked into a bay ; the entire car was within the bay and all four wheels were touching Tarmac within the bay , but the wheels were left on full lock and the outermost part of the front wheel was projecting over the line - which resulted in a ticket .
As I already stated , my longest car ( Mercedes 500SEL ) is a whisker over 5m long , and has a towbar . I find that most Glasgow city centre parking spaces are just marginally shorter than this car ( I guess they are 5m ) , so it usually overhangs a few inches one way or the other . There are plenty of other large ish cars parked in the city which I see having the same difficulty , not to mention large vans etc so the Glasgow wardens seem to tolerate it as long as you take care to park as well as you can . Even with smaller cars , some of these spaces can still be tight , especially if larger vehicles in adjacent spaces encroach on the boundary lines .
So , yes , you 'can' be ticketed for any overhang , but it seems to depend on a number of factors : where in the country you are ; how much you are overhanging by and whether you have made a reasonable attempt to park a large vehicle in a tight space , or whether the space is more than adequate for the size of the vehicle and you have just made an a*se of abandoning it well over the boundary .
In practice , it seems not usually to be enforced for 'minor' overhangs .
I have personal knowledge , however , of a colleague in a place I used to work who parked his Mercedes Sprinter delivery van tightly within an Edinburgh meter bay , but as soon as he opened the back doors to unload , the waiting 'enforcer' pounced and gave him a ticket for the overhanging door ! That incident made the front page of the Evening News and is typical of the 'zero tolerance' attitude the privatised Edinburgh wardens have become famous for .
Another pictureI recall seeing on here , this time London based IIRC was a car reverse parked into a bay ; the entire car was within the bay and all four wheels were touching Tarmac within the bay , but the wheels were left on full lock and the outermost part of the front wheel was projecting over the line - which resulted in a ticket .
As I already stated , my longest car ( Mercedes 500SEL ) is a whisker over 5m long , and has a towbar . I find that most Glasgow city centre parking spaces are just marginally shorter than this car ( I guess they are 5m ) , so it usually overhangs a few inches one way or the other . There are plenty of other large ish cars parked in the city which I see having the same difficulty , not to mention large vans etc so the Glasgow wardens seem to tolerate it as long as you take care to park as well as you can . Even with smaller cars , some of these spaces can still be tight , especially if larger vehicles in adjacent spaces encroach on the boundary lines .
So , yes , you 'can' be ticketed for any overhang , but it seems to depend on a number of factors : where in the country you are ; how much you are overhanging by and whether you have made a reasonable attempt to park a large vehicle in a tight space , or whether the space is more than adequate for the size of the vehicle and you have just made an a*se of abandoning it well over the boundary .
It often makes me wonder how you stand if you have a wide vehicle that cannot fit in the 'standard' width of many parking bays (our local town has street parking marked in boxes, rather than just lines).
I'm thinking the likes of Humvees which tend to be rather wide.
But, generally I always thought it was the wheels and where they touch tarmac that is the important bit.
I'm thinking the likes of Humvees which tend to be rather wide.
But, generally I always thought it was the wheels and where they touch tarmac that is the important bit.
Pontoneer said:
I have personal knowledge , however , of a colleague in a place I used to work who parked his Mercedes Sprinter delivery van tightly within an Edinburgh meter bay , but as soon as he opened the back doors to unload , the waiting 'enforcer' pounced and gave him a ticket for the overhanging door !
The warden missed a trick there. Every time anyone parked and opened the car door on the kerbside of the car, he could have been ticketing cars for parking on the pavement.I have had a ticket for having one third of the nearside front tyre outside a residents' parking bay (ie over the dashed line parallel to the pavement) in the People's Democratic Republic of Islington. It was quashed after a letter though.
Greg66 said:
Pontoneer said:
I have personal knowledge , however , of a colleague in a place I used to work who parked his Mercedes Sprinter delivery van tightly within an Edinburgh meter bay , but as soon as he opened the back doors to unload , the waiting 'enforcer' pounced and gave him a ticket for the overhanging door !
The warden missed a trick there. Every time anyone parked and opened the car door on the kerbside of the car, he could have been ticketing cars for parking on the pavement.
If you think about it - if you overhang from one space into another , you are denying someone full use of that space - what if they have a big car too ?
Equally , if you overhang across a footpath , you could in some circumstances make it difficult or impossible for pedestrians or wheelchair users to pass .
While marginal infractions may well be ( and usually are ) overlooked , the line has to be drawn somewhere - hence spaces have marked boundaries .
Equally , if you overhang across a footpath , you could in some circumstances make it difficult or impossible for pedestrians or wheelchair users to pass .
While marginal infractions may well be ( and usually are ) overlooked , the line has to be drawn somewhere - hence spaces have marked boundaries .
Mill Wheel said:
Corpulent Tosser said:
I even make a point of parking as close to the end to give other users a bit more space if the end of the parking area is clear.
You are to be commended sir - I wish more drivers were as considerate in their parking AND driving!
I cannot fathom how selfish f
wits can park right on the middle of two decent sized spaces 
agtlaw said:
It's the footprint of the tyre. Not the overhang. Although I did read somewhere about pending law reform.
Traffic Penalty Tribunal said:
Minimal overhang beyond the markings
The appellant, issued with a PCN for being parked outside a parking bay, appealed on the ground that the contravention had not taken place. The council contested the appeal, claiming that the PCN had been correctly issued and submitting photographs of the vehicle taken at the time.
The Adjudicator found that, while in principle any amount of a vehicle overhanging a bay would justify the issue of a PCN, it was subject to the de minimis rule, which states that in minimal cases, the law is not interested. In this case, he ruled that, from the council's photographs, the overhang was insufficient to amount to a contravention.
The appeal was allowed.
So, it's on a case-by-case basis, depending upon the amount of overhang (possibly taking into account whatever 'obstruction' such might cause ... or not).The appellant, issued with a PCN for being parked outside a parking bay, appealed on the ground that the contravention had not taken place. The council contested the appeal, claiming that the PCN had been correctly issued and submitting photographs of the vehicle taken at the time.
The Adjudicator found that, while in principle any amount of a vehicle overhanging a bay would justify the issue of a PCN, it was subject to the de minimis rule, which states that in minimal cases, the law is not interested. In this case, he ruled that, from the council's photographs, the overhang was insufficient to amount to a contravention.
The appeal was allowed.
Mind you, this was a parking bay, not DYLs.
Streaky
Edited by streaky on Wednesday 26th September 20:28
agtlaw said:
It's the footprint of the tyre. Not the overhang. Although I did read somewhere about pending law reform.
Mmm..... The response here seems to disagree! : http://www.justanswer.com/uk-traffic-law/6jbaq-con... :"The law only requires one inch of your car to overhang into the yellow line area.
Is it worth literally just an inch of the bonnet of your car and you received a ticket, however, then it may be possible to argue that the issue of such a ticket offends against the de minimis principle in law on the basis that the contravention is too trivial to take up the time of an adjudicator.
That may or may not succeed. What is clear is that any part of your car but is overhanging can commit this offence."
You'll love this incident .....
Many years ago (late 80s) I was delering to a shop in Macclesfield sfter a heavy overnight snowfall
I was driving a 75 tonne lorry and the shop was on the left a little before a pedestrian light controlled crossing
The compact snow was about 3 or 4 inches deep so I had to judge when the zigzag lines started
About half way through this 10 min deleivery a cop pulled up and got a shovel out of his boot then proceeded to remove the snow under the front of my lorry
He found that the front overhang was about 15 inches over the zigzags and prosecuted me for it !!
That ended up being the last 3 points of a possible 12 so I had to return some time later to their local court where the magistrate decided that the points would go on it but the licence would not be revoked
The other 9 points were all for exceeding the speed limits 3 times for a 7.5 tonner - not for the posted limits
Many years ago (late 80s) I was delering to a shop in Macclesfield sfter a heavy overnight snowfall
I was driving a 75 tonne lorry and the shop was on the left a little before a pedestrian light controlled crossing
The compact snow was about 3 or 4 inches deep so I had to judge when the zigzag lines started
About half way through this 10 min deleivery a cop pulled up and got a shovel out of his boot then proceeded to remove the snow under the front of my lorry
He found that the front overhang was about 15 inches over the zigzags and prosecuted me for it !!
That ended up being the last 3 points of a possible 12 so I had to return some time later to their local court where the magistrate decided that the points would go on it but the licence would not be revoked
The other 9 points were all for exceeding the speed limits 3 times for a 7.5 tonner - not for the posted limits
R0G said:
You'll love this incident .....
Many years ago (late 80s) I was delivering to a shop in Macclesfield sfter a heavy overnight snowfall
I was driving a 75 tonne lorry and the shop was on the left a little before a pedestrian light controlled crossing.........
Many years ago (late 80s) I was delivering to a shop in Macclesfield sfter a heavy overnight snowfall
I was driving a 75 tonne lorry and the shop was on the left a little before a pedestrian light controlled crossing.........
How did he notice the illegal parking despite the snow and yet completely failed to notice that you were driving an illegally overweight truck?
4rephill said:
R0G said:
You'll love this incident .....
Many years ago (late 80s) I was delivering to a shop in Macclesfield sfter a heavy overnight snowfall
I was driving a 75 tonne lorry and the shop was on the left a little before a pedestrian light controlled crossing.........
Many years ago (late 80s) I was delivering to a shop in Macclesfield sfter a heavy overnight snowfall
I was driving a 75 tonne lorry and the shop was on the left a little before a pedestrian light controlled crossing.........
How did he notice the illegal parking despite the snow and yet completely failed to notice that you were driving an illegally overweight truck?
LOL
Edited by R0G on Wednesday 26th September 12:55
4rephill said:
Mmm..... The response here seems to disagree! : http://www.justanswer.com/uk-traffic-law/6jbaq-con... :
"The law only requires one inch of your car to overhang into the yellow line area.
Is it worth literally just an inch of the bonnet of your car and you received a ticket, however, then it may be possible to argue that the issue of such a ticket offends against the de minimis principle in law on the basis that the contravention is too trivial to take up the time of an adjudicator.
That may or may not succeed. What is clear is that any part of your car but is overhanging can commit this offence."
That website is useless as an authority but my knowledge of parking could be very out of date. nb I don't do parking ticket cases. "The law only requires one inch of your car to overhang into the yellow line area.
Is it worth literally just an inch of the bonnet of your car and you received a ticket, however, then it may be possible to argue that the issue of such a ticket offends against the de minimis principle in law on the basis that the contravention is too trivial to take up the time of an adjudicator.
That may or may not succeed. What is clear is that any part of your car but is overhanging can commit this offence."
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