Due care and attention....or lack of it apparently.
Discussion
Before you read this you should know I am 19 years old, had been driving 1 year and 356 days when this took place and under new driver laws if a driver gets 6 or more points in their first 2 years they must retake their test. I drive a 106 Gti but it is not ragged around and only comes off the driveway occasionally. Before this event I had a completely clean driving license but had been on a speed awareness course which I understand gets removed from your record after you have sat it.
Around a month ago I was pulled up by a copper for driving without due care and attention. Now in reality he saw me doing 35 to 40 in a 30 zone at 2am and because he had no speed gun or onboard camera he couldn't prove my speed, so claimed I was cornering too quickly as a reason to pull me over. Yes I was driving too fast for the road but I did take the corners at 30 and my driving was too quick, but not unsafe or careless.
I later received a letter saying I had been summoned to court for Driving without due care attention. I could've pleaded guilty by post, in person at court or not guilty at court. I sent off that i would plead guilty in court.
Now I understand that this charge holds a penalty of 3-9 points and fines. What I would liike to ask is...
Being my first offence, and if I have signed proof by my boss to say that I need a driving license for work and if I were to lose it then my contract states that I could be dismissed, and from my mother to say that she relies on me to pay the majority of the mortgage and if I lost my job we could potentially lose our house, then how lenient would they be on me? Baring in mind I will going to court ina suit to plead guilty instead of just accepting the charge by post and waiting as I thought this looks better.
Am I likely to get the 6 points and have to retake my test or will they be more understanding to a first offence and with these circumstances?
Also is there anything else that I should mention to them which may make them look more kindly on my case?
Thanks
Around a month ago I was pulled up by a copper for driving without due care and attention. Now in reality he saw me doing 35 to 40 in a 30 zone at 2am and because he had no speed gun or onboard camera he couldn't prove my speed, so claimed I was cornering too quickly as a reason to pull me over. Yes I was driving too fast for the road but I did take the corners at 30 and my driving was too quick, but not unsafe or careless.
I later received a letter saying I had been summoned to court for Driving without due care attention. I could've pleaded guilty by post, in person at court or not guilty at court. I sent off that i would plead guilty in court.
Now I understand that this charge holds a penalty of 3-9 points and fines. What I would liike to ask is...
Being my first offence, and if I have signed proof by my boss to say that I need a driving license for work and if I were to lose it then my contract states that I could be dismissed, and from my mother to say that she relies on me to pay the majority of the mortgage and if I lost my job we could potentially lose our house, then how lenient would they be on me? Baring in mind I will going to court ina suit to plead guilty instead of just accepting the charge by post and waiting as I thought this looks better.
Am I likely to get the 6 points and have to retake my test or will they be more understanding to a first offence and with these circumstances?
Also is there anything else that I should mention to them which may make them look more kindly on my case?
Thanks
It is the date of the offence, I checked I passed my test on 29th Sept 2010 btw.
I got informed about the court date on the 3rd october and didn't have any cash to pay for legal advice between then and the 24th Ocgtober when the case is :/
My friend had an accident on the same stretch of road and got charged with the same thing, he was 18 at the time and got offered a 28 day ban or 6 points.
I got informed about the court date on the 3rd october and didn't have any cash to pay for legal advice between then and the 24th Ocgtober when the case is :/
My friend had an accident on the same stretch of road and got charged with the same thing, he was 18 at the time and got offered a 28 day ban or 6 points.
billy939 said:
Before you read this you should know I am 19 years old, had been driving 1 year and 356 days when this took place and under new driver laws if a driver gets 6 or more points in their first 2 years they must retake their test. I drive a 106 Gti but it is not ragged around and only comes off the driveway occasionally. Before this event I had a completely clean driving license but had been on a speed awareness course which I understand gets removed from your record after you have sat it.
Around a month ago I was pulled up by a copper for driving without due care and attention. Now in reality he saw me doing 35 to 40 in a 30 zone at 2am and because he had no speed gun or onboard camera he couldn't prove my speed, so claimed I was cornering too quickly as a reason to pull me over. Yes I was driving too fast for the road but I did take the corners at 30 and my driving was too quick, but not unsafe or careless.
I later received a letter saying I had been summoned to court for Driving without due care attention. I could've pleaded guilty by post, in person at court or not guilty at court. I sent off that i would plead guilty in court.
Now I understand that this charge holds a penalty of 3-9 points and fines. What I would liike to ask is...
Being my first offence, and if I have signed proof by my boss to say that I need a driving license for work and if I were to lose it then my contract states that I could be dismissed, and from my mother to say that she relies on me to pay the majority of the mortgage and if I lost my job we could potentially lose our house, then how lenient would they be on me? Baring in mind I will going to court ina suit to plead guilty instead of just accepting the charge by post and waiting as I thought this looks better.
Am I likely to get the 6 points and have to retake my test or will they be more understanding to a first offence and with these circumstances?
Also is there anything else that I should mention to them which may make them look more kindly on my case?
Thanks
Did they see that? Maybe that is what they are going on for careless?Around a month ago I was pulled up by a copper for driving without due care and attention. Now in reality he saw me doing 35 to 40 in a 30 zone at 2am and because he had no speed gun or onboard camera he couldn't prove my speed, so claimed I was cornering too quickly as a reason to pull me over. Yes I was driving too fast for the road but I did take the corners at 30 and my driving was too quick, but not unsafe or careless.
I later received a letter saying I had been summoned to court for Driving without due care attention. I could've pleaded guilty by post, in person at court or not guilty at court. I sent off that i would plead guilty in court.
Now I understand that this charge holds a penalty of 3-9 points and fines. What I would liike to ask is...
Being my first offence, and if I have signed proof by my boss to say that I need a driving license for work and if I were to lose it then my contract states that I could be dismissed, and from my mother to say that she relies on me to pay the majority of the mortgage and if I lost my job we could potentially lose our house, then how lenient would they be on me? Baring in mind I will going to court ina suit to plead guilty instead of just accepting the charge by post and waiting as I thought this looks better.
Am I likely to get the 6 points and have to retake my test or will they be more understanding to a first offence and with these circumstances?
Also is there anything else that I should mention to them which may make them look more kindly on my case?
Thanks
The officers statement guessed my speed to be around 50-60 because he had to go 70mph in a 30 zone to catch me up and estimated I took 90 degree bends at 40-50. Which is absolut rubbish, if you google maps; Carre Street, Sleaford, Lincolnshire, that is the road which i was going to fast down and the right bend at the end is where he said i cornered too quickly, then the following left bend at the end of that stretch....both corners can't be taken at more than 35mph.
In reality it was because by the time he pulled out of a junction and caught me up he had travelled 300-400m and it just took him that long to catch me around going 30-40mph faster than me.
In reality it was because by the time he pulled out of a junction and caught me up he had travelled 300-400m and it just took him that long to catch me around going 30-40mph faster than me.
billy939 said:
The officers statement guessed my speed to be around 50-60 because he had to go 70mph in a 30 zone to catch me up and estimated I took 90 degree bends at 40-50.
Did he follow a Formula 1 car? Frankly if you are pleading guilty by post I'd be submitting a plea in mitigation which essentially says that there is no way your car can physically take a 90 degree bend at 45mph (avge) so the officer must have been mistaken however as you don't wish to take up the court's valuable time you will plead guilty. Stress clean license etc.Jasandjules said:
billy939 said:
The officers statement guessed my speed to be around 50-60 because he had to go 70mph in a 30 zone to catch me up and estimated I took 90 degree bends at 40-50.
Did he follow a Formula 1 car? Frankly if you are pleading guilty by post I'd be submitting a plea in mitigation which essentially says that there is no way your car can physically take a 90 degree bend at 45mph (avge) so the officer must have been mistaken however as you don't wish to take up the court's valuable time you will plead guilty. Stress clean license etc.I replied to the summons saying I would be pleading guilty at court, because if you let them know early you get a 33% reduction in fines. I don't mind paying the fines but I jsut couldn't bear to lose my license, I live for my car and this has certainly been a wake up call!
He was a young PC who pulled me and I think he was trying to prove his authority. My attitude with Police is always very apologetic and was in this case as well. Pulled over as soon a s I saw the blue lights, opened my window and answered all his questions properly. I don't know if he just tarred me with the whole 'boyracer' brush because of the car I was in and the fact is has a Stainless Stell exhaust system on it(a very discreet one tbf, not some huge cannon).
Either way I think it would be more down to a bored copper wanting a young driver off the road tbh.
Either way I think it would be more down to a bored copper wanting a young driver off the road tbh.
This doesn't make any sense.
If the copper has no evidence and has put in writing a claim that you drove at 50 round a corner that can only be taken at 35 then it is a farce which would be thrown out.
Why plead guilty and then mitigate from the lost position if the facts mentione above are correct!!!!!!?
If the copper has no evidence and has put in writing a claim that you drove at 50 round a corner that can only be taken at 35 then it is a farce which would be thrown out.
Why plead guilty and then mitigate from the lost position if the facts mentione above are correct!!!!!!?
The criminal justice system is geared to give people who plead guilty the lowest penalties. In general, a due care usually carries 3 points unless you've done something bad and if you've done something bad, it generally gets charged as dangerous. Most Magistrates aren't out to ban you, they will generally cut young drivers some slack. They are more concerned about people with no insurance.
By all means have a chat with the duty solicitor on the day but, in general, if you turn up with a solicitor (who you'll have to wait for), the court will take the view that if you can afford a solicitor, you can afford a bigger fine. On the day, you will be a very small fish in a very big pool of real crime.
They also impose prosecution costs and the victim contribution has recently gone up so the financial blow is often hard enough.
By all means have a chat with the duty solicitor on the day but, in general, if you turn up with a solicitor (who you'll have to wait for), the court will take the view that if you can afford a solicitor, you can afford a bigger fine. On the day, you will be a very small fish in a very big pool of real crime.
They also impose prosecution costs and the victim contribution has recently gone up so the financial blow is often hard enough.
Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 22 October 09:15
The Moose said:
If you hire legal representation, and then prove the copper is factually incorrect, do you still have to stomach your own legal costs?
I believe you can ask for costs, but it may not cover the full cost of your representation. I had a case recently where I took a solicitor. He asked for £100 deposit when he took the case. We won, he said the rest was covered by the prosecution having to pay costs.Check - but another possible option is a Newton Hearing where you plead guilty to a lesser charge.
I did this in a similar situation where I could prove the Cop was lying BUT we all agreed where he'd started from and where I was stopped.
I was also charged with speeding so it was easy to drop from 70+ to 50mph I'm unsure whether they'd accept a speeding plee from a Careless charge.
It meant I got a fine and points rather than a possible ban.
I did this in a similar situation where I could prove the Cop was lying BUT we all agreed where he'd started from and where I was stopped.
I was also charged with speeding so it was easy to drop from 70+ to 50mph I'm unsure whether they'd accept a speeding plee from a Careless charge.
It meant I got a fine and points rather than a possible ban.
danjama said:
But you didnt have an accident. What sort of evidence does the police man intend on providing against you? Did you have your phone in your hand?
If you were driving WITH care and attention, prove it.
He doesn't have to prove it. The policeman has to prove his driving was careless.If you were driving WITH care and attention, prove it.
J
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