Insurance Question - Driving other vehicles
Discussion
Could someone in the know please explain
Most drivers on their Fully Comp policies have 3rd party insurance to drive any vehicle if they don't own the car.
From what I can gather the vehicle does not have to have a policy against it just that the driver is insured yes? However to get tax the car has to have it's own policy yes?.
Someone please explain what you are & are not allowed to do. Eg can I drive a friends car that I'm personally insured to drive but that he does not have a policy for (it's a trackday car that is usually trailered to events) as an example.
Most drivers on their Fully Comp policies have 3rd party insurance to drive any vehicle if they don't own the car.
From what I can gather the vehicle does not have to have a policy against it just that the driver is insured yes? However to get tax the car has to have it's own policy yes?.
Someone please explain what you are & are not allowed to do. Eg can I drive a friends car that I'm personally insured to drive but that he does not have a policy for (it's a trackday car that is usually trailered to events) as an example.
The wording of policies does differ - mine doesn't specify that the vehicle is insured on it's own right but some do, so read all the small print carefully because a driving without insurance conviction is not something you want to get!
As mentioned you'd also have to drive it from private property to private property to be legal. I imagine that case law would cover what is deemed to be "driving" eg. whether the vehicle is covered if you stop for petrol.
Gareth
As mentioned you'd also have to drive it from private property to private property to be legal. I imagine that case law would cover what is deemed to be "driving" eg. whether the vehicle is covered if you stop for petrol.
Gareth
Ooookay...
IF (and it's a big IF - it is NOT granted by right) your policy states that you are entitled to drive any other car with the owner's permission then, provided that
1. You are the holder of the policy offering the cover - it doesn't apply to named drivers
2. The car you are insuring on your own policy is still owned by you and has not been damaged beyond economical repair i.e. this doesn't work if your car is a burnt out wreck
3. You actually do have the permission of the owner (or, IIRC and don't quote me on this - could reasonably be expected to have the permission of the owner e.g. the owner is your Dad who is under anaesthetic in hospital and you need to borrow his car in an emergency)
then
You are satisfying the conditions of section 143(1)(a) of the Road Traffic Act - that there is in force a policy of insurance in respect of third party risks relating to your use of that vehicle on a public road.
You can leave the car parked on a road/car park with no problems, as you are the last person to drive the vehicle and therefore your insurance is in force on the car until someone else drives it. (note S143 states 'in relation to the use of the vehicle' - not necessarily driving it - and the last person to drive the car is the de facto user until someone else does).
Your policy does not have to be comprehensive - most underwriters now provide this cover on TPFT and TPO policies as well but CHECK THE SMALL PRINT.
Any cover provided under this provision will be at best third party only - damage to or theft of or from the car almost certainly will NOT be covered.
Your certificate of motor insurance (for your own car) will NOT be sufficient to get a VED disc as it does not prove you have the permission of the owner to use it. And no, a letter from your Mum won't help
As regards whether or not the car has to have it's own policy or not; the law doesn't specify but your policy might insist on it. Again, read the small print.
Sorry I can't answer your question directly but I'd need to see your policy documents to do so. Hopefully this has helped though
>> Edited by loaf on Wednesday 1st September 12:14
IF (and it's a big IF - it is NOT granted by right) your policy states that you are entitled to drive any other car with the owner's permission then, provided that
1. You are the holder of the policy offering the cover - it doesn't apply to named drivers
2. The car you are insuring on your own policy is still owned by you and has not been damaged beyond economical repair i.e. this doesn't work if your car is a burnt out wreck
3. You actually do have the permission of the owner (or, IIRC and don't quote me on this - could reasonably be expected to have the permission of the owner e.g. the owner is your Dad who is under anaesthetic in hospital and you need to borrow his car in an emergency)
then
You are satisfying the conditions of section 143(1)(a) of the Road Traffic Act - that there is in force a policy of insurance in respect of third party risks relating to your use of that vehicle on a public road.
You can leave the car parked on a road/car park with no problems, as you are the last person to drive the vehicle and therefore your insurance is in force on the car until someone else drives it. (note S143 states 'in relation to the use of the vehicle' - not necessarily driving it - and the last person to drive the car is the de facto user until someone else does).
Your policy does not have to be comprehensive - most underwriters now provide this cover on TPFT and TPO policies as well but CHECK THE SMALL PRINT.
Any cover provided under this provision will be at best third party only - damage to or theft of or from the car almost certainly will NOT be covered.
Your certificate of motor insurance (for your own car) will NOT be sufficient to get a VED disc as it does not prove you have the permission of the owner to use it. And no, a letter from your Mum won't help
As regards whether or not the car has to have it's own policy or not; the law doesn't specify but your policy might insist on it. Again, read the small print.
Sorry I can't answer your question directly but I'd need to see your policy documents to do so. Hopefully this has helped though
>> Edited by loaf on Wednesday 1st September 12:14
Well posted Loaf, but I am not entirely happy with:
>>>>>>You can leave the car parked on a road/car park with no problems, as you are the last person to drive the vehicle and therefore your insurance is in force on the car until someone else drives it. (note S143 states 'in relation to the use of the vehicle' - not necessarily driving it - and the last person to drive the car is the de facto user until someone else does). <<<<<<<<<<.
A has car parked on road outside his home and it is uninsured. B, unaware of the state of Insurance held by A, asks A if he can use the car and is given permission. B uses the extention on his own Insurance to cover use of a vehicle not owned by him. Stops at shops and parks up while he shops. Agreed while away from vehicle is still the user. Drives off and returns to outside A house and parks up lobbing the keys through A's letter box. At this stage I would argue that B is no longer driver/user as he has relinquished control back to A and at that point it is A's responsibility to ensue car on road has Insurance - not B's.
Appreciate you work in the Insurance business and if Plod came across these circumstances he may well write to Insurance Company of B to clarify if they considered themselves "at risk" while returned car parked outside B's. Their reply would be interesting?
DVD
>>>>>>You can leave the car parked on a road/car park with no problems, as you are the last person to drive the vehicle and therefore your insurance is in force on the car until someone else drives it. (note S143 states 'in relation to the use of the vehicle' - not necessarily driving it - and the last person to drive the car is the de facto user until someone else does). <<<<<<<<<<.
A has car parked on road outside his home and it is uninsured. B, unaware of the state of Insurance held by A, asks A if he can use the car and is given permission. B uses the extention on his own Insurance to cover use of a vehicle not owned by him. Stops at shops and parks up while he shops. Agreed while away from vehicle is still the user. Drives off and returns to outside A house and parks up lobbing the keys through A's letter box. At this stage I would argue that B is no longer driver/user as he has relinquished control back to A and at that point it is A's responsibility to ensue car on road has Insurance - not B's.
Appreciate you work in the Insurance business and if Plod came across these circumstances he may well write to Insurance Company of B to clarify if they considered themselves "at risk" while returned car parked outside B's. Their reply would be interesting?
DVD
As you may or may not know Mrs S works in insurance... so...
How's that?
slinky
Mrs Slinky said:
For the driving of other vehicles extension to work, a vehicle must have its own policy attached to it, which means, for example, if you have a policy and you sell the car, but still keep the policy running as the replacement will be along in a week, for that week, the driving other cars extension will not apply... In the same way, if you collect a car from a dealership/garage that car must be insured before you drive it.
(Had exactly this query today!!)
How's that?
slinky
Slinky
My policy book states that I can drive any other persons car with their permission. It does not state that there has to be a policy in force for the driven car.
However I am aware that different Companies have different interpretations on this question and if any doubt arises Policy/Insurance Co should be consulted.
DVD.
My policy book states that I can drive any other persons car with their permission. It does not state that there has to be a policy in force for the driven car.
However I am aware that different Companies have different interpretations on this question and if any doubt arises Policy/Insurance Co should be consulted.
DVD.
I recently renewed my insurance on my Mini TPFT (£97!) and the wording is:
The insured, who may also drive for third party cover a private motor car not belonging to him and not hired to him under a hire purchase or leasing agreement in respect of which no insurance is afforded to him under any other insurance applying to such a car.
I take that to mean they'll pay out if no other policy covers me. So if I'm an named fdriver on a friends car and I drive it I can't claim on my policy.
The insured, who may also drive for third party cover a private motor car not belonging to him and not hired to him under a hire purchase or leasing agreement in respect of which no insurance is afforded to him under any other insurance applying to such a car.
I take that to mean they'll pay out if no other policy covers me. So if I'm an named fdriver on a friends car and I drive it I can't claim on my policy.
These documents might shed some light on when cover begins ends:
www.theiob.org.uk/digest/m/motor_vehicle_insurance.html
www.theiob.org.uk/digest/b/borrowed_cars.html
The first one implies that if you lend a car to somebody (eg. while you are on holiday) the theft cover is suspended until you get the car back.
So DVD's scenario of lobbing the keys through the letterbox is probably correct, but if say the person drove it home, parked up on the road, went to bed and returned it the following day to a driveway it might be covered.
Personally I wouldn't take the risk - I would only drive such a car after checking with the insurer that a certain course of action is covered, perhaps getting a fax explaining it in plain english to be sure.
Gareth
www.theiob.org.uk/digest/m/motor_vehicle_insurance.html
www.theiob.org.uk/digest/b/borrowed_cars.html
The first one implies that if you lend a car to somebody (eg. while you are on holiday) the theft cover is suspended until you get the car back.
So DVD's scenario of lobbing the keys through the letterbox is probably correct, but if say the person drove it home, parked up on the road, went to bed and returned it the following day to a driveway it might be covered.
Personally I wouldn't take the risk - I would only drive such a car after checking with the insurer that a certain course of action is covered, perhaps getting a fax explaining it in plain english to be sure.
Gareth
Dwight VanDriver said:
Well posted Loaf
Thankyou
Dwight VanDriver said:
but I am not entirely happy with:
(stuff wot I wrote)
A has car parked on road outside his home and it is uninsured. B, unaware of the state of Insurance held by A, asks A if he can use the car and is given permission. B uses the extention on his own Insurance to cover use of a vehicle not owned by him. Stops at shops and parks up while he shops. Agreed while away from vehicle is still the user. Drives off and returns to outside A house and parks up lobbing the keys through A's letter box. At this stage I would argue that B is no longer driver/user as he has relinquished control back to A and at that point it is A's responsibility to ensue car on road has Insurance - not B's.
DVD
And you'd be quite right. Once B lobs the keys back into A's house B ceases to be the user of the vehicle...whereupon I guess an offence has been committed, probably by A as he is now the user and therefore responsible for ensuring adequate insurance is in force. No-one said this insurance lark was clear-cut
and I maybe wasn't quite clear enough in my earlier post. Nuts and bolts of it are that, if in doubt, contact your insurer as they will have the definitive information relating to their policy. Get them to put it in writing or at least make sure that they record all their calls.
>> Edited by loaf on Wednesday 1st September 12:15
Dwight VanDriver said:
Well posted Loaf
Thankyou
Dwight VanDriver said:
but I am not entirely happy with:
(stuff wot I wrote)
A has car parked on road outside his home and it is uninsured. B, unaware of the state of Insurance held by A, asks A if he can use the car and is given permission. B uses the extention on his own Insurance to cover use of a vehicle not owned by him. Stops at shops and parks up while he shops. Agreed while away from vehicle is still the user. Drives off and returns to outside A house and parks up lobbing the keys through A's letter box. At this stage I would argue that B is no longer driver/user as he has relinquished control back to A and at that point it is A's responsibility to ensue car on road has Insurance - not B's.
DVD
And you'd be quite right. Once B lobs the keys back into A's house B ceases to be the user of the vehicle...whereupon I guess an offence has been committed, probably by A as he is now the user and therefore responsible for ensuring adequate insurance is in force. No-one said this insurance lark was clear-cut
Nuts and bolts of it are that, if in doubt, contact your insurer as they will have the definitive information relating to their policy. Get them to put it in writing or at least make sure that they record all their calls.
I thought this was not quite as simple as it sounds, I knew about the last driver is the insured.
If I'm covered legally thats all I'm actually concerened about, so technically I can drive his car to a trackday for example on my policy. Obviously Mr Plod in the ANPR van may well stop us but I'll bring my ins cert along with me.
If I'm covered legally thats all I'm actually concerened about, so technically I can drive his car to a trackday for example on my policy. Obviously Mr Plod in the ANPR van may well stop us but I'll bring my ins cert along with me.
I assume the intention is that you drive the car to the track day then you both drive it on the track. One point to remember when considering who is in charge of the car at any time, while the track and the pits will be private property so there is no need for insurance, the car park to the track is likely to be public property so insurance is needed when car is parked there.
cptsideways said:
I thought this was not quite as simple as it sounds, I knew about the last driver is the insured.
If I'm covered legally thats all I'm actually concerened about, so technically I can drive his car to a trackday for example on my policy. Obviously Mr Plod in the ANPR van may well stop us but I'll bring my ins cert along with me.
It sounds as though you'll be OK to drive it to the track day - although bear in mind that your policy will almost certainly exclude use of a vehicle on track days so you won't have any cover whilst on the track.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff