Any employment briefs around?
Discussion
My wife works for the MOD in an establishment that is supposed to be closing on the 31st march for a re role. Now the problem is no one is saying what that will be, who will stay on and who will be terminated. The CO has gone and no official letter has arrived to confirm the closure.
The MOD are trying to persuade everyone to go into a redeployment pool which automatically ends their contract after 18 months. Understandably no one has volunteered. Is this the way it should work?
The MOD are trying to persuade everyone to go into a redeployment pool which automatically ends their contract after 18 months. Understandably no one has volunteered. Is this the way it should work?
If She is a civilian and has standard working practices applicable to her contract, then they surely would have to put her (and anyone else in the same situation) into 30 day consultation.
Within that 30 days she can then consider any other employment options on offer but not necessarily accept anything offered, following the end of the consultation period, if the role being undertake no-longer exists then redundancy would then be the only option left.
Ask for this to be moved to the employment section in Pie and Piston, probably get a better response from more knowledgeable PH's
Within that 30 days she can then consider any other employment options on offer but not necessarily accept anything offered, following the end of the consultation period, if the role being undertake no-longer exists then redundancy would then be the only option left.
Ask for this to be moved to the employment section in Pie and Piston, probably get a better response from more knowledgeable PH's
OK, sounds to me as though the MOD are taking the position "nothing to see here". In other words, although the role of the depot will change the jobs of the people will not.
For instance (and this is purely a hypothetical example) if a depot empoloyed a number of "mechanics" who had been working on tanks for years and then switched its activity to maintaining lorries, the employer can say the mechanics are still working in the same job as "mechanics". Similarly the jobs of office staff, cooks, cleaners etc would not necessarily change just because the depot was performing a new role.
If they think they might need fewer or different people going forwards there's nothing to stop them asking the workforce whether anyone is willing to be redeployed elsewhere, before they make any final decisions. If and when the management know they need to reduce (using my example again) from 50 mechanics to 30 on that site there are proper procedures which should be followed as regards offering alternative employment and/or selection for redundancy.
For instance (and this is purely a hypothetical example) if a depot empoloyed a number of "mechanics" who had been working on tanks for years and then switched its activity to maintaining lorries, the employer can say the mechanics are still working in the same job as "mechanics". Similarly the jobs of office staff, cooks, cleaners etc would not necessarily change just because the depot was performing a new role.
If they think they might need fewer or different people going forwards there's nothing to stop them asking the workforce whether anyone is willing to be redeployed elsewhere, before they make any final decisions. If and when the management know they need to reduce (using my example again) from 50 mechanics to 30 on that site there are proper procedures which should be followed as regards offering alternative employment and/or selection for redundancy.
Apache said:
My wife works for the MOD in an establishment that is supposed to be closing on the 31st march for a re role. Now the problem is no one is saying what that will be, who will stay on and who will be terminated. The CO has gone and no official letter has arrived to confirm the closure.
The MOD are trying to persuade everyone to go into a redeployment pool which automatically ends their contract after 18 months. Understandably no one has volunteered. Is this the way it should work?
I have some experience of this, used to be with Mod a few years backThe MOD are trying to persuade everyone to go into a redeployment pool which automatically ends their contract after 18 months. Understandably no one has volunteered. Is this the way it should work?
1st, are you sure it will be compulsory redundancy after 18 months? It may have tightened up in the last couple of years, but I knew of some staff who were in the MoD RDP for a lot lot lot longer than 18 months.
2nd, did you mean to say a "revised" role? There will be a consultation period with the unions, amongst others, for positions whose role are no longer required for whatever reason. Not sure how long this is, but I thought once a role has been declared surplus the individual should be given quite a bit (used to be 6 months) written notice before entering RDP.
3rd, I'm not sure you choose to go into the RDP. You are posted there once your job is gone. You do then have the choice of taking voluntary redundancy/early retirement or wait to be pushed. The last set of exit schemes I saw meant jumping was better than being pushed if you had over 12 years service.
If less than 12 years I would always wait to be pushed. You can then make use of any insurance policies you have if made redundant.
4th, I agree about civil service unions, about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Most reps are only interested in getting time off from work to do "union" business.
5th, not surprised CO or his replacement lost interest. I am well aware of the military view of civilians and they are not really at all interested in what happens to them.
One thing Mod were very good at is writing procedures for this sort of thing and placing them on their intra-net. If anything they overload staff with information that then confuses. If not already done, I suggest your wife surf their personnel website to get the latest information.
I hope the above isn't teaching you to suck eggs and helps.
Apache said:
civilian and several presentations by 2 CO's who said they didn't know anything other than a closure was definite
Just to clarify, civilian or civil servant. This is common within the civil service and sometimes ends up with people sitting at home for the 18 months although I doubt that happens much now. I suppose it may be worthwhile check the T&C's of the contract.Breadvan72 said:
The decent employment lawyer is busy, but I can tell you that there are fairly elaborate rules about consultations for large scale redundancies. Perhaps, however, the MOD is not talking about redundancies, but some other changes. More detail is needed to advise further.
I'll get her to elaborate tomorrowuknick said:
Apache said:
My wife works for the MOD in an establishment that is supposed to be closing on the 31st march for a re role. Now the problem is no one is saying what that will be, who will stay on and who will be terminated. The CO has gone and no official letter has arrived to confirm the closure.
The MOD are trying to persuade everyone to go into a redeployment pool which automatically ends their contract after 18 months. Understandably no one has volunteered. Is this the way it should work?
I have some experience of this, used to be with Mod a few years backThe MOD are trying to persuade everyone to go into a redeployment pool which automatically ends their contract after 18 months. Understandably no one has volunteered. Is this the way it should work?
1st, are you sure it will be compulsory redundancy after 18 months? It may have tightened up in the last couple of years, but I knew of some staff who were in the MoD RDP for a lot lot lot longer than 18 months.
They are saying that there will be V redundancy then C redundancy.
2nd, did you mean to say a "revised" role? There will be a consultation period with the unions, amongst others, for positions whose role are no longer required for whatever reason. Not sure how long this is, but I thought once a role has been declared surplus the individual should be given quite a bit (used to be 6 months) written notice before entering RDP.
This should be the case but has not happened yet.
3rd, I'm not sure you choose to go into the RDP. You are posted there once your job is gone. You do then have the choice of taking voluntary redundancy/early retirement or wait to be pushed. The last set of exit schemes I saw meant jumping was better than being pushed if you had over 12 years service.
We have been asked by our line managers if we want to g in the RDP.
People that have over 12 yrs have jumped ship now bur, we have been
told that OP TAG may be coming so they are all rather annoyed.
If less than 12 years I would always wait to be pushed. You can then make use of any insurance policies you have if made redundant.
4th, I agree about civil service unions, about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Most reps are only interested in getting time off from work to do "union" business.
5th, not surprised CO or his replacement lost interest. I am well aware of the military view of civilians and they are not really at all interested in what happens to them.
There has been no replacement for the CO and are now reporting to
the QM who is in charge.
One thing Mod were very good at is writing procedures for this sort of thing and placing them on their intra-net. If anything they overload staff with information that then confuses. If not already done, I suggest your wife surf their personnel website to get the latest information.
I hope the above isn't teaching you to suck eggs and helps.
The policies are on the website but when you call them they seem to be different to what they state on the policy.
It's all a bloody nightmare.
zasker said:
Just to clarify, civilian or civil servant.
Civilian MOD employees would be civil servants, wouldn't they?The Civil Service Department my missus worked for cut back dramatically a while ago - she's worked for three other Departments and has always been able to find an opening somewhere but this time it was clear they wanted them out altogether.
She qualified for early retirement and took that, but the package was cut in value twice during the process (they were told once they'd applied they couldn't back out even if the vlaue changed) and they ended up letting more go than they'd planned as it cost less than expected per employee. They were leaned on and told if they didn't volunteer then any compulsory termination would be on much worse terms.
Mrs Apache
I have every sympathy with you.
If your local union rep is not very good then try escalating it higher up the union, but as I said my experience of MoD unions is that they are a waste of union subs. However, the union head office in London I eventually dealt with was a lot better.
May I ask, where in the country your unit is, if that is not going to break any rules.
Finally, when dealing with PPPA, or whatever silly name they call themselves these days, I always found if you keep on calling their "help" line you eventually get the answer you want. I do know that can be soul destroying as you realize your future is in the hands of muppets. (excuse my cynicism)
I have every sympathy with you.
If your local union rep is not very good then try escalating it higher up the union, but as I said my experience of MoD unions is that they are a waste of union subs. However, the union head office in London I eventually dealt with was a lot better.
May I ask, where in the country your unit is, if that is not going to break any rules.
Finally, when dealing with PPPA, or whatever silly name they call themselves these days, I always found if you keep on calling their "help" line you eventually get the answer you want. I do know that can be soul destroying as you realize your future is in the hands of muppets. (excuse my cynicism)
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