Discussion
One news story I shall be following with interest during the next few days is that of the Cardiff boy who died falling from a school bus.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3645604.stm
My worst fear, however, is that we shall only be given the parts of the story that the media want us to read, and that opinion will be turned unfairly against the driver. We shall see. So far we have only heard evidence from the prosecution witnesses, mostly the boy's schoolmates. I sincerely hope that, when it becomes the turn of the defence, we are given a thorough insight into the pressures faced by bus drivers these days.
I know for a fact that few people fully appreciate (or care?) what it is like to have to deal with the public for up to 10 driving hours, on unsocial working shifts of (in my case) up to 13 hours a day. Low hourly rates (especially in Wales) mean that long hours such as this are necessary to achieve anything approaching a reasonable income. Tight timetables, inconsiderate traffic and unco-operative/abusive passengers all take their toll on a driver's stress levels. The added aggravation of having to do a school run or two during the course of a long day simply increases the stress to levels which I believe are unacceptable.
I don't want to prejudge the outcome of the case, but I know what my opinions are. Firstly, the driver had 30 years of experience, so he can't have been all bad. Secondly, the boy who died had that same day been excluded from school, so we can probably come to some conclusions regarding the type of kid he was and his 'state of mind' at the time.
Anyone else interested or have any thoughts?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3645604.stm
My worst fear, however, is that we shall only be given the parts of the story that the media want us to read, and that opinion will be turned unfairly against the driver. We shall see. So far we have only heard evidence from the prosecution witnesses, mostly the boy's schoolmates. I sincerely hope that, when it becomes the turn of the defence, we are given a thorough insight into the pressures faced by bus drivers these days.
I know for a fact that few people fully appreciate (or care?) what it is like to have to deal with the public for up to 10 driving hours, on unsocial working shifts of (in my case) up to 13 hours a day. Low hourly rates (especially in Wales) mean that long hours such as this are necessary to achieve anything approaching a reasonable income. Tight timetables, inconsiderate traffic and unco-operative/abusive passengers all take their toll on a driver's stress levels. The added aggravation of having to do a school run or two during the course of a long day simply increases the stress to levels which I believe are unacceptable.
I don't want to prejudge the outcome of the case, but I know what my opinions are. Firstly, the driver had 30 years of experience, so he can't have been all bad. Secondly, the boy who died had that same day been excluded from school, so we can probably come to some conclusions regarding the type of kid he was and his 'state of mind' at the time.
Anyone else interested or have any thoughts?
A little more info here:
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_objectid=14625016&method=full&siteid=50082&headline=schoolboy-died-in-bus--dare-game--name_page.html
Looks to me like this journalist is also biased against the bus driver!
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/tm_objectid=14625016&method=full&siteid=50082&headline=schoolboy-died-in-bus--dare-game--name_page.html
Looks to me like this journalist is also biased against the bus driver!
medicineman said:
Ah the boy had attention disorder so it probably wasn't his fault. Like so many people have said on here its the no fault culture. So the kids hanging onto the back of bus and its the drivers fault.
Always love reading about kids with that bulls**t 'disorder'. My sympathy is with the driver, poor sod.
yeah that second article appears to be very biased .. bus driver causes death by dangerous driving? . what sort of reporting is that before the facts are fully investigated?
But as an aside .. this game of *dare* ..? .. surely if there was no risk of injury it woudn't be a game of *dare*? .. so therefore the boys knew the risks before jumping onto the bus, therefore how can the driver be held responsible at all?
I'm sure school bus drivers must have to deal with all sorts of *cry wolf* scenarios many times a week, when will the kids learn?
But as an aside .. this game of *dare* ..? .. surely if there was no risk of injury it woudn't be a game of *dare*? .. so therefore the boys knew the risks before jumping onto the bus, therefore how can the driver be held responsible at all?
I'm sure school bus drivers must have to deal with all sorts of *cry wolf* scenarios many times a week, when will the kids learn?
Themoss said:
Ah the boy had attention disorder so it probably wasn't his fault. Like so many people have said on here its the no fault culture. So the kids hanging onto the back of bus and its the drivers fault.
Always love reading about kids with that bulls**t 'disorder'. My sympathy is with the driver, poor sod.
"Do you think he's punishing?"
"That's a child psychology term, a term I dislike. Let's just say he's being a complete bastard."
I knowi'm in a bad mood today - but this statement is such bullsh*t it doesn't even make sense!
[rquote=rubbish rag]A BUS driver caused the death of a schoolboy who was playing a "game of dare" by clinging to the outside of a moving bus, a court heard yesterday.[/quote]
How can a bus driver CAUSE the death of some who was clinging to the outside of a bus by his own accord..? The cause of the death was the kid being a dick.
[rquote=rubbish rag]A BUS driver caused the death of a schoolboy who was playing a "game of dare" by clinging to the outside of a moving bus, a court heard yesterday.[/quote]
How can a bus driver CAUSE the death of some who was clinging to the outside of a bus by his own accord..? The cause of the death was the kid being a dick.
The bus driver must have known that the kid was there or that something was amiss.
The door they were hanging on to was at the front, it is right next to the driver. He drove off from the bus stop with 3 kids hanging on the door, no doubt kicking and taunting. 2 jump off as it goes round the roundabout which is 50 to 75m from the bus stop. Round the roundabout and then down the otherside of the woods to me, to Wild gardens road about 300 to 400m (scammera parking spot), where he fell off. I'll bet that the bus was doing over 40mph at this point. With a bus load of his mates shouting at the driver, how could he not have been aware that something was amiss.
I do hope that it is not a case of 'bl00dy kids, I'll show him who is the hardest'
Ian
The door they were hanging on to was at the front, it is right next to the driver. He drove off from the bus stop with 3 kids hanging on the door, no doubt kicking and taunting. 2 jump off as it goes round the roundabout which is 50 to 75m from the bus stop. Round the roundabout and then down the otherside of the woods to me, to Wild gardens road about 300 to 400m (scammera parking spot), where he fell off. I'll bet that the bus was doing over 40mph at this point. With a bus load of his mates shouting at the driver, how could he not have been aware that something was amiss.
I do hope that it is not a case of 'bl00dy kids, I'll show him who is the hardest'
Ian
Themoss said:
Ah the boy had attention disorder so it probably wasn't his fault. Like so many people have said on here its the no fault culture. So the kids hanging onto the back of bus and its the drivers fault.
Always love reading about kids with that bulls**t 'disorder'. My sympathy is with the driver, poor sod.
Do you mind? I had that when I was a kid, At the time it was an unknown condition. It stopped when I was about 13. I remember it feeling like the world was slipping away and you fall asleep with your eyes open. Threatment was also experimental and involved modifying my diet to include removal of a long list of food additives, certian fruits, dairy products and heavy sugared items. Still, went on to get good grades after it wore off. Point is, its real despite what people still think. On another note it seems as though this disease is "fashionable" right now so you cant be too sure how many false diagnosese there are. As it has already been said there is a blame culture which simply didnt exist when I was that age.
sadako said:
medicineman said:
Ah the boy had attention disorder so it probably wasn't his fault. Like so many people have said on here its the no fault culture. So the kids hanging onto the back of bus and its the drivers fault.
Always love reading about kids with that bulls**t 'disorder'. My sympathy is with the driver, poor sod.
Do you mind? I had that when I was a kid, At the time it was an unknown condition. It stopped when I was about 13. I remember it feeling like the world was slipping away and you fall asleep with your eyes open. Threatment was also experimental and involved modifying my diet to include removal of a long list of food additives, certian fruits, dairy products and heavy sugared items. Still, went on to get good grades after it wore off. Point is, its real despite what people still think. On another note it seems as though this disease is "fashionable" right now so you cant be too sure how many false diagnosese there are. As it has already been said there is a blame culture which simply didnt exist when I was that age.
sadako mein Liebchen - You probably had a biochemical disorder - they probably found out which foodstuff causing production of certain chemicals in your brain to cause the listless behaviour. You had good doctor and caring parent as well. Once the identified the cause and treated it accordingly - it would "wear off"
This boy may not have the responsible parent either - and it is very sad that his self preservation instinct did not kick in either. Low IQ, poor attention skills - maybe as result of being plonked in front of telly with diet of sugary additives/chemicals which
up his brain - and no-one holds either the boy himself or the parent with contributory responsibility for this. I would say on reading the paper blame is 20% fault of driver who should have stopped if children were yelling at him to do so and warning him of this - and 80% fault of the boy. Of course - it is possible that boy's head would have met with bus wheel whilst stationary as well given what he was allegedly doing...
Sad for all concerned anyway ...
sadako said:
medicineman said:
Ah the boy had attention disorder so it probably wasn't his fault. Like so many people have said on here its the no fault culture. So the kids hanging onto the back of bus and its the drivers fault.
Always love reading about kids with that bulls**t 'disorder'. My sympathy is with the driver, poor sod.
Do you mind? I had that when I was a kid, At the time it was an unknown condition. It stopped when I was about 13. I remember it feeling like the world was slipping away and you fall asleep with your eyes open. Threatment was also experimental and involved modifying my diet to include removal of a long list of food additives, certian fruits, dairy products and heavy sugared items. Still, went on to get good grades after it wore off. Point is, its real despite what people still think. On another note it seems as though this disease is "fashionable" right now so you cant be too sure how many false diagnosese there are. As it has already been said there is a blame culture which simply didnt exist when I was that age.
My apologies Sadako, sorry for causing offence. I wasn't refering to any genuine case, just the "fashion" you talk of.
It's tragic that a 16 year old kid has died. Who knows what he could or couldn't have done with his life. I still have sympathy with the bus driver though. Sounds like he lost the plot from continual pressure, which resulted in terrible consequences. I'm sure if he could turn the clock back he would just take some deep breaths and count to ten.
Buffalo said:
I knowi'm in a bad mood today - but this statement is such bullsh*t it doesn't even make sense!
[rquote=rubbish rag]A BUS driver caused the death of a schoolboy who was playing a "game of dare" by clinging to the outside of a moving bus, a court heard yesterday.
How can a bus driver CAUSE the death of some who was clinging to the outside of a bus by his own accord..? The cause of the death was the kid being a dick.
[/quote]
Because "children" (and much of the public) refuse to take any form of personal responsibility.
Problem is, they then get hit by it at 16 and rather than being a gentle slope it is a brick wall.
Had a discussion with a chap who fostered difficult children. He told me of one lad, who used to break things, steal things, and all Social Services did was to replace it.
So he reaches 16, and because his behaviour is reinforced by the idiotic SSD response, he keeps on doing it, and a rather big gentleman in a uniform comes and "arrests him" and possibly locks him up (depends on what he does).
And therein lies the problem. It is IMO highly questionable whether "the best interests of the child" are served by allowing them more or less to do what they want with impunity.
Realistically all the above example is doing is training someone to steal.
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