Can I appeal or protest a Section 59?

[DaveL485]

I just drove past a petrol station, here:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=a423+southam&h...

It was on my left. I was in my Clio 172. I accelerated off the preceding roundabout, not particularly hard due to the conditions, to probably around 55 (limit is 50). Its a short geared car and has a filter/exhaust and sounds a lot faster than it is.
There was nobody behind me, nobody in front of me.
A unformed officer ran out to the edge of the road (assume he was filling his car with fuel) and gesticulated at me to slow down. I just drove past and carried on my way as I hadn't done anything wrong, really.

A few minutes later, further down the A423 I overtake a slow moving farm vehicle and as I do so this police car from the garage blazes around the bend behind me with the blues and two's going. I complete the overtake, and pull in.
He accuses me of driving like a lunatic, I politely correct him as to my speed and driving style and explain its a loud car, and im driving it to get the parts I need to fix my Volvo this afternoon.
Basically, he went over the car and found nothing wrong, it's taxed, tested and belongs to me, so decided to S59 me because "the exhaust is too loud".

Bearing in mind I live a quarter mile from the biggest police station in the west mids, and have never had an issue before, I don't think this is the case. Also, my driving was not an issue in the end it seems.

I think he was just narked that there was nothing proper to get me on. I want to protest this.

Can I do anything?

[Zeeky]

You might not have done anything wrong when he directed you to stop. You did when you failed to comply with the direction - unless I have misunderstood what you have written.

[Snowboy]

Get the exhaust tested to prove it's legal.
Take proof to police/court.

[singlecoil]

Also, for the future, consider fitting a quieter exhaust.

[Greengecko]

You cannot appeal a Section 59. Best thing to do would be to make a formal complaint to your local Chief Constable about the officer and ask them to consider possibly overturning the warning.

[TheInternet]

singlecoil said:

Also, for the future, consider fitting a quieter exhaust.

How are you supposed to know how quiet it should be if police officers just make up the rules arbitrarily?

[anonymous-user]

Your only legal remedy against the issue of a notice under section 59 of the Police Reform Act 2002 is to apply to the High Court for judicial review of the police officer's decision to issue such a notice. Such a challenge would be difficult, as you would have to show that no reasonable police officer could have decided to issue the notice, or that the decision was in some other way unlawful (for example, issued for an improper motive).

There is an unresolved question as to whether section 59 is compliant with article 6 of and article 1 of Protocol 1 to the ECHR. Even if it is not, then a domestic Court could only declare the provision incompatible with the Convention, and could not disapply it. Only the Strasbourg Court could effectively strike it down.

[Devil2575]

DaveL485 said:

I politely correct him as to my speed and driving style

I think that this perhaps was your problem

Sometimes just appologising and taking on board what you are told gets the best results, even if it is painful.

[Red Devil]

DaveL485 said:

Can I do anything?

Yes. Read the legislation. Note the 'and' between sub paragraphs a) and b).
If the S59 is on the system the reason for it will have to be recorded.

Breadvan may well be correct that the only legal remedy is an application to the High Court for a judicial review but there are steps you can take which may make this quite unnecessary.

If your intention is to try and get the S59 removed and the record expunged read this which may be of assistance.

There is an increasing tendency for S59 to be used inappropriately as a 'catch-all'. If a C&U Section 54 offence has been committed then that is the legislation which should be used to deal with it.

Edited by Red Devil on Monday 21st January 15:46

[singlecoil]

TheInternet said:

singlecoil said:

Also, for the future, consider fitting a quieter exhaust.

How are you supposed to know how quiet it should be if police officers just make up the rules arbitrarily?

If the policeman thinks it's too loud, it probably is, especially for someone who doesn't like getting S.59s. This sort of thing was one of the reasons S.59s were introduced, so that if someone has a loud exhaust, or is doing other stuff to annoy other people, then something can be done about it without having all sorts of legal wriggling on the part of the culprit.

[anonymous-user]

Or, to put it another way, as an oppressive measure designed to save the police the bother of proper enforcement via courts of previously extant rules.

[singlecoil]

Breadvan72 said:

Or, to put it another way, as an oppressive measure designed to save the police the bother of proper enforcement via courts of previously extant rules.

And us the expense of paying for it. Exhausts are notoriously difficult to measure accurately in any case, as anyone who has put a kit car through the IVA test will know, but we all know when we've heard one that is too loud.

[anonymous-user]

Due process is always expensive. Why not just allow police officers to say: "I think X is a burglar, therefore he is one. Five years". Hey, it works for MegaCity One. If Parliament legislates for a noise limit, then it should also provide a mechanism for testing noisy things and enforcing the limit. "I think it's a bit noisy", says PC Plod, isn't much of a mechanism. I hate Barry Boys and Chav Rockets as much as anyone does, but even Knobheads should have rights.

[singlecoil]

Breadvan72 said:

Due process is always expensive. Why not just allow police officers to say: "I think X is a burglar, therefore he is one. Five years". Hey, it works for MegaCity One. If Parliament legislates for a noise limit, then it should also provide a mechanism for testing noisy things and enforcing the limit. "I think it's a bit noisy", says PC Plod, isn't much of a mechanism. I hate Barry Boys and Chav Rockets as much as anyone, but even Knobheads should have rights.

Nice little staw man in there, plus Parliament does make the laws in this country but doesn't make the laws of physics. Sometimes a compromise is needed. There isn't an ideal solution (except maybe people not fitting loud exhausts in the first place).

[John145]

singlecoil said:

And us the expense of paying for it. Exhausts are notoriously difficult to measure accurately in any case, as anyone who has put a kit car through the IVA test will know, but we all know when we've heard one that is too loud.

I disagree with the bold bit.

As there is no sensible appeal process and it can be used for anything when laws already exist that cover everything it would be used for, seems to me that it is far too open to abuse and should be reviewed. Although my common sense is usually quite different to that of whatever government represents the people...

[singlecoil]

John145 said:

singlecoil said:

And us the expense of paying for it. Exhausts are notoriously difficult to measure accurately in any case, as anyone who has put a kit car through the IVA test will know, but we all know when we've heard one that is too loud.

I disagree with the bold bit.

I, OTOH, do agree with it.

[9mm]

singlecoil said:

Breadvan72 said:

Or, to put it another way, as an oppressive measure designed to save the police the bother of proper enforcement via courts of previously extant rules.

And us the expense of paying for it. Exhausts are notoriously difficult to measure accurately in any case, as anyone who has put a kit car through the IVA test will know, but we all know when we've heard one that is too loud.

Takes about 2 minutes to measure exhaust volume last time I went to Goodwood for a trackday...

[Centurion07]

Zeeky said:

You might not have done anything wrong when he directed you to stop. You did when you failed to comply with the direction - unless I have misunderstood what you have written.

He wasn't given the S.59 for that though.

snowboy said:

Get the exhaust tested to prove it's legal.
Take proof to police/court.

Very much this. There is a legal limit for exhaust noise ALTHOUGH I'm sure I remember reading something along the lines of any aftermarket exhaust fitted to a car is not permitted to be louder than the standard one it came with from the factory*. You may need to do some research before going down this path.

• this may be legislation that was on the cards but never became law or I could have made it up. Like I said, do your research!

[mrmr96]

singlecoil said:

And us the expense of paying for it. Exhausts are notoriously difficult to measure accurately in any case, as anyone who has put a kit car through the IVA test will know, but we all know when we've heard one that is too loud.

Nonsense.

[singlecoil]

9mm said:

singlecoil said:

Breadvan72 said:

Or, to put it another way, as an oppressive measure designed to save the police the bother of proper enforcement via courts of previously extant rules.

And us the expense of paying for it. Exhausts are notoriously difficult to measure accurately in any case, as anyone who has put a kit car through the IVA test will know, but we all know when we've heard one that is too loud.

Takes about 2 minutes to measure exhaust volume last time I went to Goodwood for a trackday...

Doesn't mean it's not difficult to measure. Did the authorities at Goodwood have the sort of equipment that it would be appropriate for a policeman to carry with him?