Roadcraft or Hooliganism?
Discussion
Does Roadcraft Enhance your Driving Experience?
I know it does for me. I'm not at all advanced in it, but what I've managed to incorporate into my driving style so far makes me feel much safer - and therefore happier - and also allows me to take opportunities that I'd never have thought of before.
On the other hand, I'm not sure that some of my manouvres could be said to be unobtrusive either in as much as numpties are likely to be annoyed or scared by them. Does this make them wrong?
For example: Yesterday I exited a roundabout in a 30 limit behind three or four cars. Looking to make progress I viewed up the road past the approaching S-bend and saw three or four cars approaching. As my train approached an NSL sign the last of the approaching train passed me. Having been watching the road the other side of the S-bend all the while I knew that no further traffic was approaching from the other direction. Therefore, on reaching the NSL sign I pulled out, took the S-bend on the right hand side of the road and passed the lead vehicle of my train in time move back over before a solid centre-line marking prohibited overtaking.
I am 100% convinced that I was safe in my actions, that I did not break any laws that I know of (except, possibly, the speed limit - I was concentrating too much on the surronding environment to look at the speedo). My question is, was the manouvre in line the principles of Roadcraft?
I know it does for me. I'm not at all advanced in it, but what I've managed to incorporate into my driving style so far makes me feel much safer - and therefore happier - and also allows me to take opportunities that I'd never have thought of before.
On the other hand, I'm not sure that some of my manouvres could be said to be unobtrusive either in as much as numpties are likely to be annoyed or scared by them. Does this make them wrong?
For example: Yesterday I exited a roundabout in a 30 limit behind three or four cars. Looking to make progress I viewed up the road past the approaching S-bend and saw three or four cars approaching. As my train approached an NSL sign the last of the approaching train passed me. Having been watching the road the other side of the S-bend all the while I knew that no further traffic was approaching from the other direction. Therefore, on reaching the NSL sign I pulled out, took the S-bend on the right hand side of the road and passed the lead vehicle of my train in time move back over before a solid centre-line marking prohibited overtaking.
I am 100% convinced that I was safe in my actions, that I did not break any laws that I know of (except, possibly, the speed limit - I was concentrating too much on the surronding environment to look at the speedo). My question is, was the manouvre in line the principles of Roadcraft?
Reminds me of my Yorkshire commute, a long time ago. The roads were infested with the 40mph brigade, and they were also fond of speeding up when I tried to overtake. I ended up doing most of the overtaking on "blind" bends - they weren't blind to me because I had got to know all the gaps in the hedges through which to watch the road on the other side.
You overtake where you have pure, unadulterated visibility of the road ahead.
Not where you can "see" bits of the road ahead through foliage.
Got caught out doing this a year or two back. I could "see" right down the road and "knew" it was clear.
So I rounded a corner, thankfully on my side of the road, and discovered that a single tree had neatly hidden from my view the bloke standing in the middle of the road with his Labrador (not on a leash) chatting to a car (which I had seen) parked up.
Because I had *thought* I had visibility up the road I had just executed a lovely fourth to third heel and two and had already got on the gas for the exit.
I STOOD on the brakes - but there was *no way* I could stop. Luckily the Labrador was well trained and stepped into the grass at the side of the road and the bloke stepped towards the car he was chatting to to.
I went through the middle - no harm done.
But it could have been so, so different.
It was a wake up call about forward observation.
By all means use crossviews, checking up the road, vehicle passage through the bits you *can* see as useful information.
But unless you have a *clear* view of the piece of the road you need for any manouvre no amount of other checking makes it a certainty its available.
And one day it won't be.
(and leave room for others like yourself coming the other way)
yup, best advice anyone has ever given me about overtaking,if your double was coming the other way at the same speed etc, would you hit each other? all things considered i think you were ok, certainally aware of whats around you unlike other road users.
yup, best advice anyone has ever given me about overtaking,if your double was coming the other way at the same speed etc, would you hit each other? all things considered i think you were ok, certainally aware of whats around you unlike other road users.
I got stopped by an unmarked car I overtook by doing something very similar to this.
At one point in the road, you had a clear unobstructed view of the next 1000 yards, allowing you to exit the bend on the wrong side of the road confident that there was nothing in the way.
He stopped me, and although was initally not very impressed, he accepted my explanation and demonstration of visibility, and I did not get ticketed.
At one point in the road, you had a clear unobstructed view of the next 1000 yards, allowing you to exit the bend on the wrong side of the road confident that there was nothing in the way.
He stopped me, and although was initally not very impressed, he accepted my explanation and demonstration of visibility, and I did not get ticketed.
splodge s4 said:
best advice anyone has ever given me about overtaking,if your double was coming the other way at the same speed etc, would you hit each other?
That's very good advice, if I'm going to rag it past a line of cars I often think first, "What would happen if someone was ragging it past a line of cars coming the other way ?, i.e. if I'm going that fast, someone else might be doing it too !"
Without seeing the road Archie was on we can't make a judgement about what he could or couldn't observe.
But in the advanced training I've done I was always told to expand my vision.
With the correct observation you can do this (overtake) perfectly safely. To the onlooker with a more blinkered way of viewing the road this could be seen as dangerous.
In fact, I was picked up by the instructor (serving BiB) for missing an overtake where I wasn't happy I could see properly. He said that with correct observation I could have pieced together the fact that the road was clear.
Splodge, I too was also taught to always bear in mind on any overtake that 'I' could be coming in the opposite direction.
But in the advanced training I've done I was always told to expand my vision.
With the correct observation you can do this (overtake) perfectly safely. To the onlooker with a more blinkered way of viewing the road this could be seen as dangerous.
In fact, I was picked up by the instructor (serving BiB) for missing an overtake where I wasn't happy I could see properly. He said that with correct observation I could have pieced together the fact that the road was clear.
Splodge, I too was also taught to always bear in mind on any overtake that 'I' could be coming in the opposite direction.
em! Just to bring up a story I think I've told before...
I was out and about in my dad's Ultima, stuck behind the usual 40mph 10 vehicle numpty-chain in an NSL. We came to a straight bit with a slight dip in the road ahead and I could see four vehicles coming the other way, so I didn't overtake. The last vehicle in the group coming from the other way was a bright red van, I watched the group go into the dip, I watched the group exit the dip and I knew there were no more cars between the last red van and approaching corner. Anyway, the moment the van passed, I changed lanes and booted it past the numpties, only to suddenly find a white van at the bottom of the blind dip, he'd just pulled out of a dirt track and was heading towards me.
Thankfully, the power of the Ultima meant that I managed to clear the numpties and pull back into the lane without any incident. Not so for mr BMW behind who was trying to follow me, he got the shock of his life, he was probably doing 100mph, not enough time to clear the numpties, the numpties kindly 'closed the door' for him and he had a huge lockup and then pulled back in at the end of the queue. The white van, realising what was happening, pulled over onto the verge just incase and everyone was fine.
Anyway, it just proved to me that even when you think you know what's in a blind spot, you can never be 100% sure.
I was out and about in my dad's Ultima, stuck behind the usual 40mph 10 vehicle numpty-chain in an NSL. We came to a straight bit with a slight dip in the road ahead and I could see four vehicles coming the other way, so I didn't overtake. The last vehicle in the group coming from the other way was a bright red van, I watched the group go into the dip, I watched the group exit the dip and I knew there were no more cars between the last red van and approaching corner. Anyway, the moment the van passed, I changed lanes and booted it past the numpties, only to suddenly find a white van at the bottom of the blind dip, he'd just pulled out of a dirt track and was heading towards me.
Thankfully, the power of the Ultima meant that I managed to clear the numpties and pull back into the lane without any incident. Not so for mr BMW behind who was trying to follow me, he got the shock of his life, he was probably doing 100mph, not enough time to clear the numpties, the numpties kindly 'closed the door' for him and he had a huge lockup and then pulled back in at the end of the queue. The white van, realising what was happening, pulled over onto the verge just incase and everyone was fine.
Anyway, it just proved to me that even when you think you know what's in a blind spot, you can never be 100% sure.
mondeoman said:
Yeah -em!
I hear that.
As long as they see you, and you don't spook them into doing something dumb or dangerous, and you don't put them at risk, I couldn't give a crap what they think.
The number of times I get flashed following a textbook overtake convinces me that a lot of the driving population have *no* idea......
Mr E said:I couldn't agree more, but where the line is that "spooks" them is not the easiest thing to judge I guess.
Yeah -
I hear that.
As long as they see you, and you don't spook them into doing something dumb or dangerous, and you don't put them at risk, I couldn't give a crap what they think.
The number of times I get flashed following a textbook overtake convinces me that a lot of the driving population have *no* idea......
I must admit that I was a little surprised not to get a flash or two for this manoeuvre. Mind you, once I was into it I wasn't spending much time looking in the mirrors.
V8 Archie said:
I couldn't agree more, but where the line is that "spooks" them is not the easiest thing to judge I guess.
There'll be times the cars you go past think "Textbook manoevre, good man (or woman
)". And other times when the reaction will be more "Did you see that Mildred? He must have been doing 200mph, bloody lunatic boyracers! He won't get there any sooner."BliarOut said:
Caterhams are good at hiding below hedgerows and popping up just when you least want them to
Oh
I was in the 7 on Saturday, and I could see the top of a tractor (cos the rest was in a dip) I didn't really think about it but backed off slightly and as I crested the rise there was a mondeo overtaking it It wasn't a particularly close one, but it brought a sense of how vulnerable I was.mondeoman said:
V8 Archie said:
Thanks for your support chaps (and a few comments I think help to crystalise my thinking).
However, I was really thinking about the effect of my actions on the motorists I was overtaking. Does anyone have any thoughts on that aspect?
Yeah -
Werrrllll.........
a read of an excellent article on Julian Smith's site might help crystalise a few more thoughts.....
www.ridedrive.co.uk/tipoffs01.htm
not to mention
www.ridedrive.co.uk/tipoffs07.htm
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Tuesday 14th September 12:31
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