where do i stand legally?
Discussion
Today I've been into a certain 'tweeking' company on wrexham industrial estate where i went to have the tracking done on my girlfriends car.
As you may know if you have read previous posts i had previously fitted camber bolts.
When I went in today I was asked why I wanted the tracking doing. I stated that I had fitted camber bolts and set the camber but as the tracking gauges in college (where I did the work) were broken I was unable to do the rest of the alignment so I did it by eye to the best I could.
They've take the car in, done the tracking and taken the camber back from 1.3 degrees I had set it to, to 0.3 degrees, and then done the rest of the alignment. They then tried to charge me the extra 15quid for doing a camber adjustment. I didn't have much time to argue and said at no point did I say I wanted the camber touching and at no point did they ask if I wanted it doing. They just did it. They then said that to set the camber back to what it was would mean they would have to charge the extra 15quid as they would effectively be doing the job twice. As I had to get the car back to my girlfriend at work so she could get back I paid up with the "camber adjustment" charge removed and went to drop the car off. I have just phoned them now to make a complaint about the whole thing and I was put through to the workshop manager.
He after much arguing I got him to see where I was coming from but then the utter cock womble pulls out this line "any chav and his dog can fit camber bolts and say they have set up the camber" !!! well f
k me did that piss me right off. I put him firmly in his place by explaining that the difference between myself and any chav and his dog is that I did 2 years with a company called TDi North where i was told what goes into doing a fast road setup and so i know what amount of camber is excessive and what amount of camber will give improved grip over factory settings whilst still maintaining fairly even tire wear. He then said I can take it back in tomorrow and he will re-do the camber and the toe but if the job takes more than 30 minutes i will be charged!!!
Where do I stand? Can they legally do this? Shirley it is their job to make sure they understand what needs doing even if it is so blunt as to say "do you want the camber adjusting?". I know that if I didn't clarify with a customer and made a mistake I would be expected to rectify it free of charge and probably get a severe ear bashing.
If they do try and charge me if it takes over 30 minutes what action can i take? if any.
Thanks
A very annoyed Thom!
As you may know if you have read previous posts i had previously fitted camber bolts.
When I went in today I was asked why I wanted the tracking doing. I stated that I had fitted camber bolts and set the camber but as the tracking gauges in college (where I did the work) were broken I was unable to do the rest of the alignment so I did it by eye to the best I could.
They've take the car in, done the tracking and taken the camber back from 1.3 degrees I had set it to, to 0.3 degrees, and then done the rest of the alignment. They then tried to charge me the extra 15quid for doing a camber adjustment. I didn't have much time to argue and said at no point did I say I wanted the camber touching and at no point did they ask if I wanted it doing. They just did it. They then said that to set the camber back to what it was would mean they would have to charge the extra 15quid as they would effectively be doing the job twice. As I had to get the car back to my girlfriend at work so she could get back I paid up with the "camber adjustment" charge removed and went to drop the car off. I have just phoned them now to make a complaint about the whole thing and I was put through to the workshop manager.
He after much arguing I got him to see where I was coming from but then the utter cock womble pulls out this line "any chav and his dog can fit camber bolts and say they have set up the camber" !!! well f
k me did that piss me right off. I put him firmly in his place by explaining that the difference between myself and any chav and his dog is that I did 2 years with a company called TDi North where i was told what goes into doing a fast road setup and so i know what amount of camber is excessive and what amount of camber will give improved grip over factory settings whilst still maintaining fairly even tire wear. He then said I can take it back in tomorrow and he will re-do the camber and the toe but if the job takes more than 30 minutes i will be charged!!!Where do I stand? Can they legally do this? Shirley it is their job to make sure they understand what needs doing even if it is so blunt as to say "do you want the camber adjusting?". I know that if I didn't clarify with a customer and made a mistake I would be expected to rectify it free of charge and probably get a severe ear bashing.
If they do try and charge me if it takes over 30 minutes what action can i take? if any.
Thanks
A very annoyed Thom!
Try being pleasant instead of being uppity. Seems like the workshop manager has come to a fair arrangement to avoid losing face on both sides. Original problem was a misunderstanding through lack of communication - you admit yourself you weren't specific enough - not telling them to do something is not the same as telling them not to, and if someone doing work is not warned in advance of non-standard set-up then to protect themselves they will do work to standard specs.
The issue you have is in the language that has been used.
"Tracking" to some means the toe setting, to others it means a full alignment check and adjust. Your chosen garage believes the latter. Had you asked them to check and adjust the toe setting on the car, then you have quite specifically told them what you want. Unfortunatly you assumed that your instruction to do the "tracking" was to be understood as toe setting only.
If you do want to fight it, is it really worth it?
I do have to aggree that it does seem unreasonable that once the mistake was pointed out the garage wasn't prepared to just sort it out for you.
"Tracking" to some means the toe setting, to others it means a full alignment check and adjust. Your chosen garage believes the latter. Had you asked them to check and adjust the toe setting on the car, then you have quite specifically told them what you want. Unfortunatly you assumed that your instruction to do the "tracking" was to be understood as toe setting only.
If you do want to fight it, is it really worth it?
I do have to aggree that it does seem unreasonable that once the mistake was pointed out the garage wasn't prepared to just sort it out for you.
The previous poster is right. it doesn't matter how right you may be, but if you start sounding off rather than delivering a polite point of view, the primary objective of the garage concerned will be to remove you, as i would at my own workshop. it is also for you to state, preferably in writing, how you wannt the setup done if it deviates from standard. This goes some way to placing the resposibility for the settings with you, as you are in effect telling a professional how to do their job. With good communication none of this stuff is a problem.
Flatinfourth said:
The previous poster is right. it doesn't matter how right you may be, but if you start sounding off rather than delivering a polite point of view, the primary objective of the garage concerned will be to remove you, as i would at my own workshop. it is also for you to state, preferably in writing, how you wannt the setup done if it deviates from standard. This goes some way to placing the resposibility for the settings with you, as you are in effect telling a professional how to do their job. With good communication none of this stuff is a problem.
Really must watch the srceen wehn i'm typing!!Just a point - find someone that is used to non-standard setups for your work, you will find a more engaging environment
PS: you want legal, here's legal. If the garage has your car and wants to charge you the fifteen quid or whatever, you can object and decline to pay. Fine, they will keep your car (lawfully - they will have what is called a repairing lien) while you resolve the dispute. Ultimately, you could sue them or they could sue you over the fifteen quid. The Judge will have an apoplexy when he sees the case, and yell at everyone. You might win, or you might lose, on the basis that you did not specify that you wanted a particular setting. Meanwhile, they have your car.
Or, your could just talk to them reasonably, without anyone waving their bits around, and bear in mind that they might know what they are doing. Maybe not, but, if not, why did you entrust them with the work, especially if you are familiar with the skills involved and so, I would have thought, better placed than Joe Punter might be to choose the right garage for the job?
Or, your could just talk to them reasonably, without anyone waving their bits around, and bear in mind that they might know what they are doing. Maybe not, but, if not, why did you entrust them with the work, especially if you are familiar with the skills involved and so, I would have thought, better placed than Joe Punter might be to choose the right garage for the job?
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 29th January 15:30
bseriesthom said:
Today I've been into a certain 'tweeking' company on wrexham industrial estate where i went to have the tracking done on my girlfriends car.
As you may know if you have read previous posts i had previously fitted camber bolts.
When I went in today I was asked why I wanted the tracking doing. I stated that I had fitted camber bolts and set the camber but as the tracking gauges in college (where I did the work) were broken I was unable to do the rest of the alignment so I did it by eye to the best I could.
They've take the car in, done the tracking and taken the camber back from 1.3 degrees I had set it to, to 0.3 degrees, and then done the rest of the alignment. They then tried to charge me the extra 15quid for doing a camber adjustment. I didn't have much time to argue and said at no point did I say I wanted the camber touching and at no point did they ask if I wanted it doing. They just did it. They then said that to set the camber back to what it was would mean they would have to charge the extra 15quid as they would effectively be doing the job twice. As I had to get the car back to my girlfriend at work so she could get back I paid up with the "camber adjustment" charge removed and went to drop the car off. I have just phoned them now to make a complaint about the whole thing and I was put through to the workshop manager.
He after much arguing I got him to see where I was coming from but then the utter cock womble pulls out this line "any chav and his dog can fit camber bolts and say they have set up the camber" !!! well fk me did that piss me right off. I put him firmly in his place by explaining that the difference between myself and any chav and his dog is that I did 2 years with a company called TDi North where i was told what goes into doing a fast road setup and so i know what amount of camber is excessive and what amount of camber will give improved grip over factory settings whilst still maintaining fairly even tire wear. He then said I can take it back in tomorrow and he will re-do the camber and the toe but if the job takes more than 30 minutes i will be charged!!!
Where do I stand? Can they legally do this? Shirley it is their job to make sure they understand what needs doing even if it is so blunt as to say "do you want the camber adjusting?". I know that if I didn't clarify with a customer and made a mistake I would be expected to rectify it free of charge and probably get a severe ear bashing.
If they do try and charge me if it takes over 30 minutes what action can i take? if any.
Thanks
A very annoyed Thom!
Not sure if serious....... £15, no adverse safety issues......just a post about a miscommunication and £15....... Face palm As you may know if you have read previous posts i had previously fitted camber bolts.
When I went in today I was asked why I wanted the tracking doing. I stated that I had fitted camber bolts and set the camber but as the tracking gauges in college (where I did the work) were broken I was unable to do the rest of the alignment so I did it by eye to the best I could.
They've take the car in, done the tracking and taken the camber back from 1.3 degrees I had set it to, to 0.3 degrees, and then done the rest of the alignment. They then tried to charge me the extra 15quid for doing a camber adjustment. I didn't have much time to argue and said at no point did I say I wanted the camber touching and at no point did they ask if I wanted it doing. They just did it. They then said that to set the camber back to what it was would mean they would have to charge the extra 15quid as they would effectively be doing the job twice. As I had to get the car back to my girlfriend at work so she could get back I paid up with the "camber adjustment" charge removed and went to drop the car off. I have just phoned them now to make a complaint about the whole thing and I was put through to the workshop manager.
He after much arguing I got him to see where I was coming from but then the utter cock womble pulls out this line "any chav and his dog can fit camber bolts and say they have set up the camber" !!! well f
k me did that piss me right off. I put him firmly in his place by explaining that the difference between myself and any chav and his dog is that I did 2 years with a company called TDi North where i was told what goes into doing a fast road setup and so i know what amount of camber is excessive and what amount of camber will give improved grip over factory settings whilst still maintaining fairly even tire wear. He then said I can take it back in tomorrow and he will re-do the camber and the toe but if the job takes more than 30 minutes i will be charged!!!Where do I stand? Can they legally do this? Shirley it is their job to make sure they understand what needs doing even if it is so blunt as to say "do you want the camber adjusting?". I know that if I didn't clarify with a customer and made a mistake I would be expected to rectify it free of charge and probably get a severe ear bashing.
If they do try and charge me if it takes over 30 minutes what action can i take? if any.
Thanks
A very annoyed Thom!
Breadvan72 said:
I give up. Bloke wants to legalise a situation involving a potential charge for half an hour's work, which seems to be about fifteen quid. Seeks to negotiate with supplier of services by "putting him in his place". We really are all doomed.
Yeah, but he fitted camber bolts himself http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...PS: I see, bloke finds out how to fit camber bolts by asking on internet. Bloke is now leading expert on camber bolts. Bloke puts professional mechanic in place in dispute over fifteen quid. Presumably, after this thread, the OP will be an expert on repairing liens and the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, and will be able to put his lawyer in his place when there's an argument about the bill for suing the garage for fifteen quid. Me love me internet, me.
Breadvan72 said:
PS: I see, bloke finds out how to fit camber bolts by asking on internet. Bloke is now leading expert on camber bolts. Bloke puts professional mechanic in place in dispute over fifteen quid. Presumably, after this thread, the OP will be an expert on repairing liens and the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, and will be able to put his lawyer in his place when there's an argument about the bill for suing the garage for fifteen quid. Me love me internet, me.
A bit like a bloke who becomes an expert on a certain vehicle's fuel consumption after owning it for < 6 months ? 
Stalking ? Moi ? I'm not even wearing tweed today
OP - you are
FWIW.... I and a few of my friends have used this place many times to set up camber, tracking and alignment....
My experience is that they're excellent at what they do, and considering the cost of the equipment, wages etc, are very reasonably priced to...
In fact, I've found that the technicians will go out of their way to explain what, they're doing and why they have to do it that way... For example, certain settings need adjusting before others, and then they return to the first setting etc
Highly recommended from me anyway
My experience is that they're excellent at what they do, and considering the cost of the equipment, wages etc, are very reasonably priced to...
In fact, I've found that the technicians will go out of their way to explain what, they're doing and why they have to do it that way... For example, certain settings need adjusting before others, and then they return to the first setting etc
Highly recommended from me anyway
IMHO they aren't being unreasonable, although it's best if they don't speak to customers as if they (customers) know nothing.
Better than the main agent near me who insisted that an oil and filter change after 8k on our new car wouldn't retain the warranty because we had to have a 'minor service' (usual first service was 18k, but oil was a year old so I wanted it changed!)
After a vastly expensive 'minor service' they'd overfilled the engine by 1litre, and managed somehow to put £2 of fluid in the washer bottle that was overflowing when I gave the car to them....... When challenged they said the overfill of oil would 'be alright'. I put them in their place, and now the car is out of warranty do all my own work.
If you aren't happy with the alignment people, then get/make your own equipment - surprisingly simple kit ,such as a bit of string (and some time) can be remarkably accurate
Better than the main agent near me who insisted that an oil and filter change after 8k on our new car wouldn't retain the warranty because we had to have a 'minor service' (usual first service was 18k, but oil was a year old so I wanted it changed!)
After a vastly expensive 'minor service' they'd overfilled the engine by 1litre, and managed somehow to put £2 of fluid in the washer bottle that was overflowing when I gave the car to them....... When challenged they said the overfill of oil would 'be alright'. I put them in their place, and now the car is out of warranty do all my own work.
If you aren't happy with the alignment people, then get/make your own equipment - surprisingly simple kit ,such as a bit of string (and some time) can be remarkably accurate
I'm thinking of suing the manufacturer of my work boots.
They are 4 years old and have started to give me a blister.Now,I could replace them by filling in a form but that would mean wear and tear on my wrist,not to mention all that ink used so have decided the only course of action is to take them to court.Below is a breakdown of what I am claiming for:
-£1.20 for a plaster
-£0.10 for some cream
-£15 for wear and tear on my body parts and pain and mental anguish caused by the obviously defective footwear.
What are my chances of victory?
They are 4 years old and have started to give me a blister.Now,I could replace them by filling in a form but that would mean wear and tear on my wrist,not to mention all that ink used so have decided the only course of action is to take them to court.Below is a breakdown of what I am claiming for:
-£1.20 for a plaster
-£0.10 for some cream
-£15 for wear and tear on my body parts and pain and mental anguish caused by the obviously defective footwear.
What are my chances of victory?
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