Double white line and car passing a cyclist-clarity required
Discussion
I am sure this has been done before, but I cant find it.
What's the law regarding overtaking a cyclist?
Rural A road, double white lines but on a straight stretch (1/2 miles long).
Is it legal to pass, and in doing so, in order to give plenty of room, cross the white lines? For the sake of argument, lets say the cyclist was doing over the 10mph mentioned in the highway for overtaking tractors and the like.
I know that common sense would say yes, but I am really only looking for clear law on this. A link to that law would be nice.
Thanks
What's the law regarding overtaking a cyclist?
Rural A road, double white lines but on a straight stretch (1/2 miles long).
Is it legal to pass, and in doing so, in order to give plenty of room, cross the white lines? For the sake of argument, lets say the cyclist was doing over the 10mph mentioned in the highway for overtaking tractors and the like.
I know that common sense would say yes, but I am really only looking for clear law on this. A link to that law would be nice.
Thanks
It's a shame there isn't a little book to explnin all these rules.
129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
129
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
Steviesam said:
Thanks both.
Looks like there will be MILES of traffic jams from now on then.
Those white lines are at least 9 miles long!
If you are holding up traffic, you are obliged to move over at the first safe place and let it pass, so if there are MILES of traffic held up by a bike, then the cyclist can be persecuted. Looks like there will be MILES of traffic jams from now on then.
Those white lines are at least 9 miles long!
As others have posted, the law/HC is clear on the subject.
In reality, the fault often lies with lazy road design/marking, where the necessary solid lines are so frequent along a stretch that they have all been joined up to form miles of solid lines allowing no opportunity to pass slower vehicles.
As a driver, I'll use my sense, and pass a cyclist if, when, and where, I can see it is safe. Sometimes, with co-operation from the cyclist, this can be achieved without crossing the solid line at all, sometimes the lane is too narrow to allow this, so a brief period across the line is required, and I'll do so where I can see sufficiently far ahead to do it "in the section of road I can see to be clear, and can reasonably expect to remain clear". I'll take my chances with the Police in such situations, and expect them to use some discretion in the sensible application of the law - they are, after all, drivers too.
As a cyclist, I'll try to treat drivers with as much respect as I feel I deserve. Where solid white lines are present, I'll position myself so as to assist following drivers to make an EDUCATED decision regarding an overtake. Bare in mind my elevated position compared to most cars, and my ability to switch from left to right in the lane to 'get a better look' into bends. For a right hander, I'll tuck in left, have a good look around the bend, then, if it's clear, I'll wave traffic past, or signal 'wait' with a flat palm. On approach to a left hander, I may well move all the way out to the middle of the road. I'm not doing this to be an awkward t
t, again I'm looking into the bend. If I see clear road ahead, I'll tuck back over to the left and encourage you to pass. I don't want drivers stuck behind me getting impatient, any more than I want to be stuck behind a cyclist for miles on end in my car. The same applies to twisty rural roads with poor sight lines due to hedges/banks. I can often see better from the bike, and will try to assist cars to pass, if safe.
It's nice to get a flash of 4-ways, or the 'indicator dance' from a driver when you've been able to co-operate. Or even just a simple raised hand through the rear window. It just shows that the driver understood what I was doing, and why. Love of cars/driving, and the love of bikes/riding are not mutually exclusive things, and we can all make life easier if we just have a little patience, and help one another out if we get the chance.
In reality, the fault often lies with lazy road design/marking, where the necessary solid lines are so frequent along a stretch that they have all been joined up to form miles of solid lines allowing no opportunity to pass slower vehicles.
As a driver, I'll use my sense, and pass a cyclist if, when, and where, I can see it is safe. Sometimes, with co-operation from the cyclist, this can be achieved without crossing the solid line at all, sometimes the lane is too narrow to allow this, so a brief period across the line is required, and I'll do so where I can see sufficiently far ahead to do it "in the section of road I can see to be clear, and can reasonably expect to remain clear". I'll take my chances with the Police in such situations, and expect them to use some discretion in the sensible application of the law - they are, after all, drivers too.
As a cyclist, I'll try to treat drivers with as much respect as I feel I deserve. Where solid white lines are present, I'll position myself so as to assist following drivers to make an EDUCATED decision regarding an overtake. Bare in mind my elevated position compared to most cars, and my ability to switch from left to right in the lane to 'get a better look' into bends. For a right hander, I'll tuck in left, have a good look around the bend, then, if it's clear, I'll wave traffic past, or signal 'wait' with a flat palm. On approach to a left hander, I may well move all the way out to the middle of the road. I'm not doing this to be an awkward t
t, again I'm looking into the bend. If I see clear road ahead, I'll tuck back over to the left and encourage you to pass. I don't want drivers stuck behind me getting impatient, any more than I want to be stuck behind a cyclist for miles on end in my car. The same applies to twisty rural roads with poor sight lines due to hedges/banks. I can often see better from the bike, and will try to assist cars to pass, if safe.It's nice to get a flash of 4-ways, or the 'indicator dance' from a driver when you've been able to co-operate. Or even just a simple raised hand through the rear window. It just shows that the driver understood what I was doing, and why. Love of cars/driving, and the love of bikes/riding are not mutually exclusive things, and we can all make life easier if we just have a little patience, and help one another out if we get the chance.
singlecoil said:
Steviesam said:
New POD said:
If you are holding up traffic, you are obliged to move over at the first safe place and let it pass, so if there are MILES of traffic held up by a bike, then the cyclist can be persecuted.
Thanks, although thats unlikely to happen.yellowjack said:
As others have posted, the law/HC is clear on the subject.
In reality, the fault often lies with lazy road design/marking, where the necessary solid lines are so frequent along a stretch that they have all been joined up to form miles of solid lines allowing no opportunity to pass slower vehicles.
As a driver, I'll use my sense, and pass a cyclist if, when, and where, I can see it is safe. Sometimes, with co-operation from the cyclist, this can be achieved without crossing the solid line at all, sometimes the lane is too narrow to allow this, so a brief period across the line is required, and I'll do so where I can see sufficiently far ahead to do it "in the section of road I can see to be clear, and can reasonably expect to remain clear". I'll take my chances with the Police in such situations, and expect them to use some discretion in the sensible application of the law - they are, after all, drivers too.
As a cyclist, I'll try to treat drivers with as much respect as I feel I deserve. Where solid white lines are present, I'll position myself so as to assist following drivers to make an EDUCATED decision regarding an overtake. Bare in mind my elevated position compared to most cars, and my ability to switch from left to right in the lane to 'get a better look' into bends. For a right hander, I'll tuck in left, have a good look around the bend, then, if it's clear, I'll wave traffic past, or signal 'wait' with a flat palm. On approach to a left hander, I may well move all the way out to the middle of the road. I'm not doing this to be an awkward tt, again I'm looking into the bend. If I see clear road ahead, I'll tuck back over to the left and encourage you to pass. I don't want drivers stuck behind me getting impatient, any more than I want to be stuck behind a cyclist for miles on end in my car. The same applies to twisty rural roads with poor sight lines due to hedges/banks. I can often see better from the bike, and will try to assist cars to pass, if safe.
It's nice to get a flash of 4-ways, or the 'indicator dance' from a driver when you've been able to co-operate. Or even just a simple raised hand through the rear window. It just shows that the driver understood what I was doing, and why. Love of cars/driving, and the love of bikes/riding are not mutually exclusive things, and we can all make life easier if we just have a little patience, and help one another out if we get the chance.
I agree with all that.In reality, the fault often lies with lazy road design/marking, where the necessary solid lines are so frequent along a stretch that they have all been joined up to form miles of solid lines allowing no opportunity to pass slower vehicles.
As a driver, I'll use my sense, and pass a cyclist if, when, and where, I can see it is safe. Sometimes, with co-operation from the cyclist, this can be achieved without crossing the solid line at all, sometimes the lane is too narrow to allow this, so a brief period across the line is required, and I'll do so where I can see sufficiently far ahead to do it "in the section of road I can see to be clear, and can reasonably expect to remain clear". I'll take my chances with the Police in such situations, and expect them to use some discretion in the sensible application of the law - they are, after all, drivers too.
As a cyclist, I'll try to treat drivers with as much respect as I feel I deserve. Where solid white lines are present, I'll position myself so as to assist following drivers to make an EDUCATED decision regarding an overtake. Bare in mind my elevated position compared to most cars, and my ability to switch from left to right in the lane to 'get a better look' into bends. For a right hander, I'll tuck in left, have a good look around the bend, then, if it's clear, I'll wave traffic past, or signal 'wait' with a flat palm. On approach to a left hander, I may well move all the way out to the middle of the road. I'm not doing this to be an awkward t
t, again I'm looking into the bend. If I see clear road ahead, I'll tuck back over to the left and encourage you to pass. I don't want drivers stuck behind me getting impatient, any more than I want to be stuck behind a cyclist for miles on end in my car. The same applies to twisty rural roads with poor sight lines due to hedges/banks. I can often see better from the bike, and will try to assist cars to pass, if safe.It's nice to get a flash of 4-ways, or the 'indicator dance' from a driver when you've been able to co-operate. Or even just a simple raised hand through the rear window. It just shows that the driver understood what I was doing, and why. Love of cars/driving, and the love of bikes/riding are not mutually exclusive things, and we can all make life easier if we just have a little patience, and help one another out if we get the chance.
However, in todays world, the Police are getting more and more "black or white" with regards to offences.
The problem with the double white line system is that it was intended to be used only in those areas where it was unsafe to overtake: hump-back bridges, that sort of thing. Its use has changed to that of regulating traffic.
I've recently followed in a queue of traffic stuck behind an electric vehicle which was travelling at 10mph (on the flat) along a road with double whites. The person driving the car immediately behind complied with the law and did not overtake. He left a gap to allow anyone else to overtake, but then the person behind complied with the law as well.
The superintendent in charge of my force's process unit said that before passing any file for crossing double whites there must be evidence of danger, potential or actual. That seemed eminently sensible to me for a county that is infested with tractors and double whites.
I've recently followed in a queue of traffic stuck behind an electric vehicle which was travelling at 10mph (on the flat) along a road with double whites. The person driving the car immediately behind complied with the law and did not overtake. He left a gap to allow anyone else to overtake, but then the person behind complied with the law as well.
The superintendent in charge of my force's process unit said that before passing any file for crossing double whites there must be evidence of danger, potential or actual. That seemed eminently sensible to me for a county that is infested with tractors and double whites.
General rule of thumb - if a police vehicle not on B&Ts would overtake in a particular slow moving situation then its ok for others to do the same
Common sense in this rules over strict adherence of the law - same applies to cyclists riding on empty pavements for example
A driver sitting for ages behind a cycle doing 12 mph is more likely to get a tug if they refused to take the safe passing opportunities presented and caused a queue
Common sense in this rules over strict adherence of the law - same applies to cyclists riding on empty pavements for example
A driver sitting for ages behind a cycle doing 12 mph is more likely to get a tug if they refused to take the safe passing opportunities presented and caused a queue
yellowjack said:
As a cyclist, I'll try to treat drivers with as much respect as I feel I deserve. Where solid white lines are present, I'll position myself so as to assist following drivers to make an EDUCATED decision regarding an overtake. Bare in mind my elevated position compared to most cars, and my ability to switch from left to right in the lane to 'get a better look' into bends. For a right hander, I'll tuck in left, have a good look around the bend, then, if it's clear, I'll wave traffic past, or signal 'wait' with a flat palm. On approach to a left hander, I may well move all the way out to the middle of the road. I'm not doing this to be an awkward tt, again I'm looking into the bend. If I see clear road ahead, I'll tuck back over to the left and encourage you to pass. I don't want drivers stuck behind me getting impatient, any more than I want to be stuck behind a cyclist for miles on end in my car. The same applies to twisty rural roads with poor sight lines due to hedges/banks. I can often see better from the bike, and will try to assist cars to pass, if safe.
You sound like some cyclists I was following around the country lanes round here last week.t, again I'm looking into the bend. If I see clear road ahead, I'll tuck back over to the left and encourage you to pass. I don't want drivers stuck behind me getting impatient, any more than I want to be stuck behind a cyclist for miles on end in my car. The same applies to twisty rural roads with poor sight lines due to hedges/banks. I can often see better from the bike, and will try to assist cars to pass, if safe.I'd been following them ride two abreast for a while and when we were half way round what I know is a blind bend they went single file and waved me past.
As you say, their higher position meant he was able to see over the hedge and that the straight we were about to arrive onto was clear.
Big thumbs up from me and a wave of thanks out of the window.
R0G said:
General rule of thumb - if a police vehicle not on B&Ts would overtake in a particular slow moving situation then its ok for others to do the same
Common sense in this rules over strict adherence of the law - same applies to cyclists riding on empty pavements for example
A driver sitting for ages behind a cycle doing 12 mph is more likely to get a tug if they refused to take the safe passing opportunities presented and caused a queue
Yes, but in this pedantic world, I would rather have a tug for not breaking the law, than doing so and expecting to talk my way out of a fine and points.Common sense in this rules over strict adherence of the law - same applies to cyclists riding on empty pavements for example
A driver sitting for ages behind a cycle doing 12 mph is more likely to get a tug if they refused to take the safe passing opportunities presented and caused a queue
I understand the common sense approach, but after this morning, it made me realsie that common sense is fast dissapearing from us and our police forces.
And before you start, no I am not tarring all with the same brush, butI think we all know that in reality, discression is becoming a thing of the past for the Police.
R0G said:
General rule of thumb - if a police vehicle not on B&Ts would overtake in a particular slow moving situation then its ok for others to do the same
Common sense in this rules over strict adherence of the law - same applies to cyclists riding on empty pavements for example
A driver sitting for ages behind a cycle doing 12 mph is more likely to get a tug if they refused to take the safe passing opportunities presented and caused a queue
The law takes precedence over common sense when there is a police officer or a "safety" camera about.Common sense in this rules over strict adherence of the law - same applies to cyclists riding on empty pavements for example
A driver sitting for ages behind a cycle doing 12 mph is more likely to get a tug if they refused to take the safe passing opportunities presented and caused a queue
I would not overtake a cyclist at 12 mph if to do so meant crossing a solid line in a double white line system if there was a police vehicle behind me. Why should I risk the chance of 3 points, a £60 fine and increased insurance premiums for years?
I am not allowed to use "common sense" and pass a red traffic light at a deserted junction in the middle of the night, now, am I?
The police can't have it both ways!
R0G said:
Legally 10 mph or less = ok
Reality = ok if over 10 mph and very safely and quickly done
The 10 mph is so that the overtake can be done with very little time across the line
Didn't think that applied to double white lines.Reality = ok if over 10 mph and very safely and quickly done
The 10 mph is so that the overtake can be done with very little time across the line
Just checked,,doesn't mention double white lines (solid), just broken or solid your side, nommention of double solid, somguess thats a no go area, but s'pose someone has broken down?
Edited by Vipers on Tuesday 14th May 10:47
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