Is this actually enforceable?
Discussion
So today I came into work (I work at a uni) and the ANPR system the have for recognizing your car and letting you on campus has failed at the gate I normally use.
There is a RF ID card reader to use in the event ANPR is broken and you just swipe your Uni ID card to get it to open. However, this morning I find I haven't got mine on me. Thankfully the police are near by ticketing all the scrooges who try to avoid the uni parking permit fee by parking on the grass verges and double yellows (they do this because they've gotten away with it for so long, but there are so many cars now that police have noticed), and Uni Security Team are with them to assist.
The Uni security (which is a private security team...run by the uni) bloke comes over to see whats up and I explain I haven't got my card. "You do know that is normally a £200 fine for not having your University ID whilst on campus?" he said. "can't prove who you are otherwise".
Now I admit I did not know this and I have been here nearly 10 years. He let me off (kind of him) but before I left I told him I didn't realize the ID was actually a valid form of ID (no where else will take it as valid ID, its DL or passport, always have DL on me and it takes them no time to radio in a name check based on the info on your DL) and asked if the fine was enforceable. He said it is, but he's never heard of it ever being enforced.
My gut feeling is that it hasn't ever been enforced because it isn't enforceable really (However, enforceable only in the sense that they can simply add £200 to your university account without notice and not let you graduate/attain your doctorate because of it as you owe the uni money). Guessing, by the way things operate round here you may get a written ticket, but the fine will be automatically added to your uni account where I presume they could probably deduct it from your pay automatically. I.e. it won't be a ticket that could be left outstanding.
So what say ye PH law experts? £200 fine for not having your university ID card on you whilst on campus...
Extortionate fine for such a small and easily worked around misdemeanor?
Enforceable by a private security team run by the uni?
Trying it on?
There is a RF ID card reader to use in the event ANPR is broken and you just swipe your Uni ID card to get it to open. However, this morning I find I haven't got mine on me. Thankfully the police are near by ticketing all the scrooges who try to avoid the uni parking permit fee by parking on the grass verges and double yellows (they do this because they've gotten away with it for so long, but there are so many cars now that police have noticed), and Uni Security Team are with them to assist.
The Uni security (which is a private security team...run by the uni) bloke comes over to see whats up and I explain I haven't got my card. "You do know that is normally a £200 fine for not having your University ID whilst on campus?" he said. "can't prove who you are otherwise".
Now I admit I did not know this and I have been here nearly 10 years. He let me off (kind of him) but before I left I told him I didn't realize the ID was actually a valid form of ID (no where else will take it as valid ID, its DL or passport, always have DL on me and it takes them no time to radio in a name check based on the info on your DL) and asked if the fine was enforceable. He said it is, but he's never heard of it ever being enforced.
My gut feeling is that it hasn't ever been enforced because it isn't enforceable really (However, enforceable only in the sense that they can simply add £200 to your university account without notice and not let you graduate/attain your doctorate because of it as you owe the uni money). Guessing, by the way things operate round here you may get a written ticket, but the fine will be automatically added to your uni account where I presume they could probably deduct it from your pay automatically. I.e. it won't be a ticket that could be left outstanding.
So what say ye PH law experts? £200 fine for not having your university ID card on you whilst on campus...
Extortionate fine for such a small and easily worked around misdemeanor?
Enforceable by a private security team run by the uni?
Trying it on?
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 17th May 10:08
Check your employment contract. It may say that you are subject to their rules etc when you sign your contract and if you aren't happy with it you know where the door is.
If I let you live in my house for £10 with the clause that it will cost you £1000 if you lose the keys and you sign the contract then when you lose the keys you either owe me £1000 or you can leave. You can contract into pretty much anything in this country so probably is enforceable as long as you want to live there.
If I let you live in my house for £10 with the clause that it will cost you £1000 if you lose the keys and you sign the contract then when you lose the keys you either owe me £1000 or you can leave. You can contract into pretty much anything in this country so probably is enforceable as long as you want to live there.
My university ran a system where you got "fined" - if you had any unpaid fines on your account at the end of the year you didn't finish the year.. so no graduation etc...
Antisocial behaviour, bad parking, library books etc all went into the same place.
Not sure how it could impact employment though, unless you have some crazy terms and conditions in your contract of employment..
Antisocial behaviour, bad parking, library books etc all went into the same place.
Not sure how it could impact employment though, unless you have some crazy terms and conditions in your contract of employment..
R11ysf said:
Check your employment contract. It may say that you are subject to their rules etc when you sign your contract and if you aren't happy with it you know where the door is.
If I let you live in my house for £10 with the clause that it will cost you £1000 if you lose the keys and you sign the contract then when you lose the keys you either owe me £1000 or you can leave. You can contract into pretty much anything in this country so probably is enforceable as long as you want to live there.
Not really. A contract term has to be reasonable to be enforceable, and in essence, proportional to loss.If I let you live in my house for £10 with the clause that it will cost you £1000 if you lose the keys and you sign the contract then when you lose the keys you either owe me £1000 or you can leave. You can contract into pretty much anything in this country so probably is enforceable as long as you want to live there.
I can't enforce a contract that says you will give me your house if you are late for work 3 times, taking it to an extreme.
The £200 charge for not carrying your ID badge sounds like the sort of thing a tribunal would love. It isn't reasonable, and I've never heard of an employer doing it... Not even the Walmarts of this world...
Otispunkmeyer said:
So what say ye PH law experts? £200 fine for not having your university ID card on you whilst on campus...
Extortionate fine for such a small and easily worked around misdemeanor?
Enforceable by a private security team run by the uni?
Trying it on?
Trying it on.Extortionate fine for such a small and easily worked around misdemeanor?
Enforceable by a private security team run by the uni?
Trying it on?
If you really want to press the issue, find a politically motivated type in the Students Union staff and remind them of what happened to Germany in the late 30's when a police force was able to go around and exert disproportionate power because people didn't carry their papers with them...
Cheers guys
I'm not angry about this or anything, not looking to do anything about it either really, was just curious about the whole shtick because that was the first time I have heard it. I'm out of here come December anyway. Quite sick of the place now.
I was a student here from 2004 to 2009 and started a PhD in 2010. Contract for the PhD absolutely does not cover anything like this. In fact the contract is very short and mainly relates to the work I am doing being under NDA. Neither is any of this information in the induction pack they give you when you join.
I presume this is something either relatively new and was emailed about (i.e. to go look on security website to check whats what) or it has always been the case and just not communicated very well.
The security lot here are pretty stereo-typical in their behavior...like the jokey "mall cops" who race around trying to use the impression of authority to their advantage when really they have very little power to do anything. Par for the course, you just have to learn how to work around them. I've never been checked for ID before, I guess if you look like a student or a lecturer they don't bother you in general.
Normally get these sorts of threats from old guys who man the main gates for any sort of mistake or slip up. They come across as very bitter old men most of the time.
I am just happy they are finally doing something about the jokers who park right outside one of the side gates (unmanned). The entrance comes off a 40 MPH dual carriage way and their cars obstruct the exit of the DC and entry to the Uni. They also obstruct vision come going home time as they block the view down the road making it difficult to pull out and cross to reach the other side of the DC. Nearly crashed into a guy who I was following into the gate when he suddenly stopped mid exit to reverse onto the verge. And then nearly ran someone over when they stepped out of their car as I was exiting.
I'm not angry about this or anything, not looking to do anything about it either really, was just curious about the whole shtick because that was the first time I have heard it. I'm out of here come December anyway. Quite sick of the place now.
I was a student here from 2004 to 2009 and started a PhD in 2010. Contract for the PhD absolutely does not cover anything like this. In fact the contract is very short and mainly relates to the work I am doing being under NDA. Neither is any of this information in the induction pack they give you when you join.
I presume this is something either relatively new and was emailed about (i.e. to go look on security website to check whats what) or it has always been the case and just not communicated very well.
The security lot here are pretty stereo-typical in their behavior...like the jokey "mall cops" who race around trying to use the impression of authority to their advantage when really they have very little power to do anything. Par for the course, you just have to learn how to work around them. I've never been checked for ID before, I guess if you look like a student or a lecturer they don't bother you in general.
Normally get these sorts of threats from old guys who man the main gates for any sort of mistake or slip up. They come across as very bitter old men most of the time.
I am just happy they are finally doing something about the jokers who park right outside one of the side gates (unmanned). The entrance comes off a 40 MPH dual carriage way and their cars obstruct the exit of the DC and entry to the Uni. They also obstruct vision come going home time as they block the view down the road making it difficult to pull out and cross to reach the other side of the DC. Nearly crashed into a guy who I was following into the gate when he suddenly stopped mid exit to reverse onto the verge. And then nearly ran someone over when they stepped out of their car as I was exiting.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 17th May 11:53
Otispunkmeyer said:
Cheers guys
I'm not angry about this or anything, not looking to do anything about it either really, was just curious about the whole shtick because that was the first time I have heard it. I'm out of here come December anyway. Quite sick of the place now.
I was a student here from 2004 to 2009 and started a PhD in 2010. Contract for the PhD absolutely does not cover anything like this. In fact the contract is very short and mainly relates to the work I am doing being under NDA. Neither is any of this information in the induction pack they give you when you join.
I presume this is something either relatively new and was emailed about (i.e. to go look on security website to check whats what) or it has always been the case and just not communicated very well.
The security lot here are pretty stereo-typical in their behavior...like the jokey "mall cops" who race around trying to use the impression of authority to their advantage when really they have very little power to do anything. Par for the course, you just have to learn how to work around them. I've never been checked for ID before, I guess if you look like a student or a lecturer they don't bother you in general.
Normally get these sorts of threats from old guys who man the main gates for any sort of mistake or slip up. They come across as very bitter old men most of the time.
I am just happy they are finally doing something about the jokers who park right outside one of the side gates (unmanned). The entrance comes off a 40 MPH dual carriage way and their cars obstruct the exit of the DC and entry to the Uni. They also obstruct vision come going home time as they block the view down the road making it difficult to pull out and cross to reach the other side of the DC. Nearly crashed into a guy who I was following into the gate when he suddenly stopped mid exit to reverse onto the verge. And then nearly ran someone over when they stepped out of their car as I was exiting.
I often drop someone off/pick them at those gates (assuming its a very sporting university). Those cars are a pain for any kind of visibility. Just be glad you don't need your card to get into your lab otherwise you wouldn't get any work done I'm not angry about this or anything, not looking to do anything about it either really, was just curious about the whole shtick because that was the first time I have heard it. I'm out of here come December anyway. Quite sick of the place now.
I was a student here from 2004 to 2009 and started a PhD in 2010. Contract for the PhD absolutely does not cover anything like this. In fact the contract is very short and mainly relates to the work I am doing being under NDA. Neither is any of this information in the induction pack they give you when you join.
I presume this is something either relatively new and was emailed about (i.e. to go look on security website to check whats what) or it has always been the case and just not communicated very well.
The security lot here are pretty stereo-typical in their behavior...like the jokey "mall cops" who race around trying to use the impression of authority to their advantage when really they have very little power to do anything. Par for the course, you just have to learn how to work around them. I've never been checked for ID before, I guess if you look like a student or a lecturer they don't bother you in general.
Normally get these sorts of threats from old guys who man the main gates for any sort of mistake or slip up. They come across as very bitter old men most of the time.
I am just happy they are finally doing something about the jokers who park right outside one of the side gates (unmanned). The entrance comes off a 40 MPH dual carriage way and their cars obstruct the exit of the DC and entry to the Uni. They also obstruct vision come going home time as they block the view down the road making it difficult to pull out and cross to reach the other side of the DC. Nearly crashed into a guy who I was following into the gate when he suddenly stopped mid exit to reverse onto the verge. And then nearly ran someone over when they stepped out of their car as I was exiting.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 17th May 11:53
mcdjl said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Cheers guys
I'm not angry about this or anything, not looking to do anything about it either really, was just curious about the whole shtick because that was the first time I have heard it. I'm out of here come December anyway. Quite sick of the place now.
I was a student here from 2004 to 2009 and started a PhD in 2010. Contract for the PhD absolutely does not cover anything like this. In fact the contract is very short and mainly relates to the work I am doing being under NDA. Neither is any of this information in the induction pack they give you when you join.
I presume this is something either relatively new and was emailed about (i.e. to go look on security website to check whats what) or it has always been the case and just not communicated very well.
The security lot here are pretty stereo-typical in their behavior...like the jokey "mall cops" who race around trying to use the impression of authority to their advantage when really they have very little power to do anything. Par for the course, you just have to learn how to work around them. I've never been checked for ID before, I guess if you look like a student or a lecturer they don't bother you in general.
Normally get these sorts of threats from old guys who man the main gates for any sort of mistake or slip up. They come across as very bitter old men most of the time.
I am just happy they are finally doing something about the jokers who park right outside one of the side gates (unmanned). The entrance comes off a 40 MPH dual carriage way and their cars obstruct the exit of the DC and entry to the Uni. They also obstruct vision come going home time as they block the view down the road making it difficult to pull out and cross to reach the other side of the DC. Nearly crashed into a guy who I was following into the gate when he suddenly stopped mid exit to reverse onto the verge. And then nearly ran someone over when they stepped out of their car as I was exiting.
I often drop someone off/pick them at those gates (assuming its a very sporting university). Those cars are a pain for any kind of visibility. Just be glad you don't need your card to get into your lab otherwise you wouldn't get any work done I'm not angry about this or anything, not looking to do anything about it either really, was just curious about the whole shtick because that was the first time I have heard it. I'm out of here come December anyway. Quite sick of the place now.
I was a student here from 2004 to 2009 and started a PhD in 2010. Contract for the PhD absolutely does not cover anything like this. In fact the contract is very short and mainly relates to the work I am doing being under NDA. Neither is any of this information in the induction pack they give you when you join.
I presume this is something either relatively new and was emailed about (i.e. to go look on security website to check whats what) or it has always been the case and just not communicated very well.
The security lot here are pretty stereo-typical in their behavior...like the jokey "mall cops" who race around trying to use the impression of authority to their advantage when really they have very little power to do anything. Par for the course, you just have to learn how to work around them. I've never been checked for ID before, I guess if you look like a student or a lecturer they don't bother you in general.
Normally get these sorts of threats from old guys who man the main gates for any sort of mistake or slip up. They come across as very bitter old men most of the time.
I am just happy they are finally doing something about the jokers who park right outside one of the side gates (unmanned). The entrance comes off a 40 MPH dual carriage way and their cars obstruct the exit of the DC and entry to the Uni. They also obstruct vision come going home time as they block the view down the road making it difficult to pull out and cross to reach the other side of the DC. Nearly crashed into a guy who I was following into the gate when he suddenly stopped mid exit to reverse onto the verge. And then nearly ran someone over when they stepped out of their car as I was exiting.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 17th May 11:53
Otispunkmeyer said:
Cheers guys
I'm not angry about this or anything, not looking to do anything about it either really, was just curious about the whole shtick because that was the first time I have heard it. I'm out of here come December anyway. Quite sick of the place now.
I was a student here from 2004 to 2009 and started a PhD in 2010. Contract for the PhD absolutely does not cover anything like this. In fact the contract is very short and mainly relates to the work I am doing being under NDA. Neither is any of this information in the induction pack they give you when you join.
I presume this is something either relatively new and was emailed about (i.e. to go look on security website to check whats what) or it has always been the case and just not communicated very well.
The security lot here are pretty stereo-typical in their behavior...like the jokey "mall cops" who race around trying to use the impression of authority to their advantage when really they have very little power to do anything. Par for the course, you just have to learn how to work around them. I've never been checked for ID before, I guess if you look like a student or a lecturer they don't bother you in general.
Normally get these sorts of threats from old guys who man the main gates for any sort of mistake or slip up. They come across as very bitter old men most of the time.
I am just happy they are finally doing something about the jokers who park right outside one of the side gates (unmanned). The entrance comes off a 40 MPH dual carriage way and their cars obstruct the exit of the DC and entry to the Uni. They also obstruct vision come going home time as they block the view down the road making it difficult to pull out and cross to reach the other side of the DC. Nearly crashed into a guy who I was following into the gate when he suddenly stopped mid exit to reverse onto the verge. And then nearly ran someone over when they stepped out of their car as I was exiting.
No, it's not enforceable. However they could deny entry and/or remove you from the grounds at their discretion; although I very much doubt the university would be happy about that if you showed another form of identification and stated the reason you were there.I'm not angry about this or anything, not looking to do anything about it either really, was just curious about the whole shtick because that was the first time I have heard it. I'm out of here come December anyway. Quite sick of the place now.
I was a student here from 2004 to 2009 and started a PhD in 2010. Contract for the PhD absolutely does not cover anything like this. In fact the contract is very short and mainly relates to the work I am doing being under NDA. Neither is any of this information in the induction pack they give you when you join.
I presume this is something either relatively new and was emailed about (i.e. to go look on security website to check whats what) or it has always been the case and just not communicated very well.
The security lot here are pretty stereo-typical in their behavior...like the jokey "mall cops" who race around trying to use the impression of authority to their advantage when really they have very little power to do anything. Par for the course, you just have to learn how to work around them. I've never been checked for ID before, I guess if you look like a student or a lecturer they don't bother you in general.
Normally get these sorts of threats from old guys who man the main gates for any sort of mistake or slip up. They come across as very bitter old men most of the time.
I am just happy they are finally doing something about the jokers who park right outside one of the side gates (unmanned). The entrance comes off a 40 MPH dual carriage way and their cars obstruct the exit of the DC and entry to the Uni. They also obstruct vision come going home time as they block the view down the road making it difficult to pull out and cross to reach the other side of the DC. Nearly crashed into a guy who I was following into the gate when he suddenly stopped mid exit to reverse onto the verge. And then nearly ran someone over when they stepped out of their car as I was exiting.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 17th May 11:53
I've worked in a company that does secret stuff for the defence industry. Part of the MOD. I left my ID at the local baths.
I couldn't get into work until my boss came and signed me in.
The MilPolice were a bit pissed off. Threatened to shoot me. Said they could if They wanted.
The Swimming pool people phoned to say it had been found.
All was fine. Mil Plod were fine about it. Apparently I'd have been a waste of bullets.
I couldn't get into work until my boss came and signed me in.
The MilPolice were a bit pissed off. Threatened to shoot me. Said they could if They wanted.
The Swimming pool people phoned to say it had been found.
All was fine. Mil Plod were fine about it. Apparently I'd have been a waste of bullets.
mcdjl said:
I often drop someone off/pick them at those gates (assuming its a very sporting university). Those cars are a pain for any kind of visibility. Just be glad you don't need your card to get into your lab otherwise you wouldn't get any work done
I agree, as are the mainly mini drivers who seem to think that they one dont need to park in the car park for students like everyone else, and then dont even park in a space. Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff