abandoned car can I claim it?

abandoned car can I claim it?

Author
Discussion

duncancallum

Original Poster:

904 posts

192 months

Friday 14th June 2013
quotequote all
By my mates house on a dirt path there's a Saab on a 54 plate missing its front bumper and a dent in the rear wing. The police have been out to it and its not registered to any one apparently.

So What is to stop me taking and re registering it to me?

TheEnd

15,370 posts

202 months

Friday 14th June 2013
quotequote all
There's nothing to stop you, you'll be able to apply to the DVLA for the logbook, and they'll contact or try to contact the previous keeper.
If all goes well, you'll get the logbook, but remember the car will still belong to someone else!

Rubin215

4,154 posts

170 months

Friday 14th June 2013
quotequote all
A car cannot just be "not registered to anyone," there will always be a registered keeper.

When you sell a car, you should send of the main part of the V5 with the new keeper's details, otherwise the car still belongs to you.

Even if the new keeper gives a hokum name and address, the vehicle still becomes registered to that identity.

duncancallum

Original Poster:

904 posts

192 months

Friday 14th June 2013
quotequote all
That's What I thought, my mate said the Coppers who attended said no registered keeper? Is it a possible fleet car but I would of thought a business name would be used. I've got the reg that helps

Nick1point9

3,920 posts

194 months

Friday 14th June 2013
quotequote all
RK and owner are not the same thing.


Even if you do become the RK you still won't own it, so legally couldn't sell it on and the rightful owner could take it back if they wanted to.

4rephill

5,089 posts

192 months

Friday 14th June 2013
quotequote all
Nick1point9 said:
RK and owner are not the same thing.


Even if you do become the RK you still won't own it, so legally couldn't sell it on and the rightful owner could take it back if they wanted to.
And if the rightful owner took the car back, you'd lose any money spent on it!

drchris

318 posts

194 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
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How long has it been there?

Pontoneer

3,643 posts

200 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all
I knew someone who did exactly that .

He had spotted this Triumph Vitesse sitting in a Perthshire village and noted that it never seemed to move , with grass growing up around it etc .

After seeing no movement over a period of time , he knocked a number of doors and no one knew who it belonged to , he also checked with local police station , explained he was interested in the car and was going to apply for the document , but wanted to check he wouldn't be in trouble for just taking it .

They said that DVLA wouldn't issue documents without trying to contact the last registered keeper and that they weren't bothered since if the owner turned up and complained they would be able to trace my friend through the car now being registered to him .

He duly got the document and towed the car away , got it on the road and enjoyed it for a few years without ever hearing any more about it .

These days , councils will generally remove abandoned cars after so long - so it is better someone getting the use of it than it going for scrap .

redstu

2,287 posts

253 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all
Surely even if a v5 was obtained it would still be theft.
The v5 would be a nice piece of evidence.


4rephill

5,089 posts

192 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all
Pontoneer said:
I knew someone who did exactly that .

He had spotted this Triumph Vitesse sitting in a Perthshire village and noted that it never seemed to move , with grass growing up around it etc .

After seeing no movement over a period of time , he knocked a number of doors and no one knew who it belonged to , he also checked with local police station , explained he was interested in the car and was going to apply for the document , but wanted to check he wouldn't be in trouble for just taking it .

They said that DVLA wouldn't issue documents without trying to contact the last registered keeper and that they weren't bothered since if the owner turned up and complained they would be able to trace my friend through the car now being registered to him .

He duly got the document and towed the car away , got it on the road and enjoyed it for a few years without ever hearing any more about it .

These days , councils will generally remove abandoned cars after so long - so it is better someone getting the use of it than it going for scrap .
He is still only the registered keeper though, he does not own the car.

If the rightful owner turns up with proof of ownership and says: "I want My car back!", then he cannot refuse to had it over because that would be theft of property.

Also, your friend could not claim back any money he spent restoring/maintaining the car from the rightful owner because he never legally owned it and any money spent on it was volunteered.

As for councils removing cars and scrapping them, that all depends on where the car has been abandoned. They don't automatically remove every car that's been abandoned (see the "Cars left to die/rotting" thread in the Classic Cars and Yesterdays Heroes section for proof of that).

Derek Smith

47,335 posts

262 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all
redstu said:
Surely even if a v5 was obtained it would still be theft.
The v5 would be a nice piece of evidence.
If any object has been abandoned by the owner it cannot be stolen.

carreauchompeur

18,176 posts

218 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
redstu said:
Surely even if a v5 was obtained it would still be theft.
The v5 would be a nice piece of evidence.
If any object has been abandoned by the owner it cannot be stolen.
And one would argue that there is no dishonesty on the part of the "claimer" if they have gone through the correct channels.

SV8Predator

2,102 posts

179 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
If any object has been abandoned by the owner it cannot be stolen.
Sez who?

carreauchompeur

18,176 posts

218 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all
SV8Predator said:
Sez who?
Derek Smith, I'd imagine. I suppose there is "Theft by finding" but still no dishonesty here.

Derek Smith

47,335 posts

262 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all
SV8Predator said:
Derek Smith said:
If any object has been abandoned by the owner it cannot be stolen.
Sez who?
The 1968 Theft Act.

As pointed out, the actions of the finder are not dishonest and, for an object to be stolen, it needs an owner. If a person abandons an object and retains no rights to the object then it cannot be stolen.

DCS01

350 posts

196 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all
I undrstand how he can become the RK, but if there is no trace of an 'owner' how do you become the owner, how does anyone become the owner and not just a RK then. Or is it the fact that someone 'has' to sell or give you the car for you to be the owner.

johnfm

13,676 posts

264 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all
carreauchompeur said:
SV8Predator said:
Sez who?
Derek Smith, I'd imagine. I suppose there is "Theft by finding" but still no dishonesty here.
For a theft to occur, the object of the theft must 'belong to another'.

How can an abondoned item belong to anybody?

Hence, no possibility of theft.

4rephill

5,089 posts

192 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
If any object has been abandoned by the owner it cannot be stolen.
But in the case of a vehicle in that situation, the person who abandoned it will still be the legal owner!

As the person who found the vehicle and became the registered keeper, to be declared the legal owner you have to prove that that the vehicle became your property by way of a sale/gift or such as like, with supporting evidence, preferably in writing, or with witnesses.

Without that proof of ownership, if you were to sell the vehicle, you would be obtaining money by selling something you do not legally own! - That's where the problem lies.

Technically, you would be defrauding the person you're selling the vehicle to! Should the rightful owner turn up and take the car back from them, then the buyer will come after you because the car was never yours to sell!
(Unless you can prove that you specifically informed the buyer that all they were purchasing was the right to become the registered keeper of the vehicle rather than the legal owner).

Proof of ownership is the key point here, without it, you are merely the user of the car and not the owner.

OzzyR1

6,092 posts

246 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all


Surprised its not a Tuscan.



SV8Predator

2,102 posts

179 months

Saturday 15th June 2013
quotequote all
4rephill said:
But in the case of a vehicle in that situation, the person who abandoned it will still be the legal owner!

Proof of ownership is the key point here, without it, you are merely the user of the car and not the owner.
That's correct.

And the point I was making earlier, is that who is to say it's abandoned? There could be lots of legal argument over the exact definition of the word 'abandoned'.

And if the real owner discovers his old car is now all shiny and restored I'm sure he'll decide that it wasn't 'abandoned' after all, and would like it back.