Discussion
There are a few 20MPH zones where I live. And instead of make the roads safer (which I presume is the reason they were introduced) In my experience, has made them substantially more unsafe !!!
Traffic flow at 30-35 seemed to keep most people sane. However, at 20mph I have a constant build-up of traffic behind me and on MOST occasions will get overtaken by the vehicle immediately behind me or worse still the 2nd or 3rd back
I never had this when the road was 30, neither did I get flashed, hooted or threatened by vehicles driving literally a few inches off my bumper !!!!
I use Richmond Park frequently, which (apparently) has a 20mph limit for "environmental" reasons ? I don’t know any vehicle that is more efficient at 20 then 30 ? The speed limit has always been enforced rigorously there and again I will stick to 20. This again is unsafe as lots of cyclists use the park and overtaking them at 20 takes much longer and is more dangerous, let alone those cyclists that are easily breaking the 20mph limit ... I'm not a speed freak, considering my line-up of vehicles, 20mph is actually hard to maintain as even on tick-over they all want to do more than 20 but I do. It just seems too frustrating for most other drivers, which will inevitably lead to someone getting hurt - a reason for lowering the limit in the first place.... 20mph zones should be kept where there is no possibilty of being overtaken... (there are none around the locals schools)
>>> Edited by ws6 on Monday 18th October 11:45
Traffic flow at 30-35 seemed to keep most people sane. However, at 20mph I have a constant build-up of traffic behind me and on MOST occasions will get overtaken by the vehicle immediately behind me or worse still the 2nd or 3rd back
I never had this when the road was 30, neither did I get flashed, hooted or threatened by vehicles driving literally a few inches off my bumper !!!!
I use Richmond Park frequently, which (apparently) has a 20mph limit for "environmental" reasons ? I don’t know any vehicle that is more efficient at 20 then 30 ? The speed limit has always been enforced rigorously there and again I will stick to 20. This again is unsafe as lots of cyclists use the park and overtaking them at 20 takes much longer and is more dangerous, let alone those cyclists that are easily breaking the 20mph limit ... I'm not a speed freak, considering my line-up of vehicles, 20mph is actually hard to maintain as even on tick-over they all want to do more than 20 but I do. It just seems too frustrating for most other drivers, which will inevitably lead to someone getting hurt - a reason for lowering the limit in the first place.... 20mph zones should be kept where there is no possibilty of being overtaken... (there are none around the locals schools)
>>> Edited by ws6 on Monday 18th October 11:45
Shirley since the signs are the speed limit in a red circle then they are 'Order' signs?
I have followed numerous Panda and Traffic Police cars alogn the A355 Farnham Road in Slough where the limit goes 30/20/30/20 a few times. I have never seen them keep to the 20 limit.
I think we should have more of these signs past schools, hospitals and similar. Plus they should be enforced by the Police. Might make people think about their driving a bit then.
I have followed numerous Panda and Traffic Police cars alogn the A355 Farnham Road in Slough where the limit goes 30/20/30/20 a few times. I have never seen them keep to the 20 limit.
I think we should have more of these signs past schools, hospitals and similar. Plus they should be enforced by the Police. Might make people think about their driving a bit then.
best thing outside schools is to have no cars at all.
If you enforce 20MPH, then people stare at their speedos, not the road which is very dangerous outside a school (when the kids are about of course, not 3am in the morning).
Remove the cars, you remove the problem.
lines of 4x4 illegally parked on the zig zags. Seen it hundreds of times.
Most kids get hit running out between cars by vehicles travelling slowly.
If you enforce 20MPH, then people stare at their speedos, not the road which is very dangerous outside a school (when the kids are about of course, not 3am in the morning).
Remove the cars, you remove the problem.
lines of 4x4 illegally parked on the zig zags. Seen it hundreds of times.
Most kids get hit running out between cars by vehicles travelling slowly.
bryan35 said:
apparently, 20MPH isn't enforceable under law.
There isn't such as offence as exceeding a 20MPH limit.
Bet you didn't know that!
WHAT !!!!!!
The Royal Parks Agency advise that they do enforce the 20mph zone within Richmond Park as it has it's own Bye Laws... as for the public highway - any proof to your claim ???
bryan35 said:
best thing outside schools is to have no cars at all.
If you enforce 20MPH, then people stare at their speedos, not the road which is very dangerous outside a school (when the kids are about of course, not 3am in the morning).
Remove the cars, you remove the problem.
lines of 4x4 illegally parked on the zig zags. Seen it hundreds of times.
Most kids get hit running out between cars by vehicles travelling slowly.
Totally agree, 20mph is hard to maintain without constantly looking at your speedo... I did hire a Merc once that had an inverted cruise control - you set your max speed and it would allow you to go over it !! Very useful
Sorry to disappoint Bryan but I see it that RTRA 1984 (Amendment) Order 1999 allows Local Authorites, without the consent of the Sec of State (previously required)to make an Order in respect of 20 mph speed limits. These ARE enforceable under Sect 89 RTRA 1984 - person guilty of an offence of speeding.
DVD
DVD
This is interesting, a village near where I work has recently installed a 20mph limit (when all it really needs is some good parking provision). I've usually just kept to a definite 30..
I wonder what the lowest speed conviction has been in the country. Anyone been unlucky enough to get nicked at 23mph?
I reckon I could sprint faster than 20 (for a few metres)!
Re: Richmond Park, if the limit is to reduce pollution, surely they should ban cars over a certain CO2 emissions level?
I wonder what the lowest speed conviction has been in the country. Anyone been unlucky enough to get nicked at 23mph?
I reckon I could sprint faster than 20 (for a few metres)!
Re: Richmond Park, if the limit is to reduce pollution, surely they should ban cars over a certain CO2 emissions level?
Raify said:
Re: Richmond Park, if the limit is to reduce pollution, surely they should ban cars over a certain CO2 emissions level?
The local authority and papers seem to think its an environmental issue, the Parks Police say it's safety.
Presumably reducing the speed to 20 will make drivers think weather to use it pass through, pity then that they didn't consult with whoever put a 20mph zone on one of the outside perimeter roads
as now it makes little to no difference.... If it is safety, then as I said above, it actually seems to make it more unsafe, by constantly being overtaken and trying to overtake a cyclist doing 15-18mph at 20mph takes far too long and is a danger in itself !
bryan35 said:
best thing outside schools is to have no cars at all.
If you enforce 20MPH, then people stare at their speedos, not the road which is very dangerous outside a school (when the kids are about of course, not 3am in the morning).
Remove the cars, you remove the problem.
lines of 4x4 illegally parked on the zig zags. Seen it hundreds of times.
Most kids get hit running out between cars by vehicles travelling slowly.
They should score a few hits in scotland then as they are installing 20mph limits outside of all schools in the very near future.
Perhaps you should get on to the scottish seretary and warn him.
dimmadan said:
may be of interest
Department of Transport traffic advisory leaflet on 20mph zones
Difficult to disagree with what is trying to be done. And pictures of the roads in the document seem very suited to having a 20 limit... However, the road in Kingston (one of the 1st to have a 20 limit in the country)As above, leaves too much scope for being overtaken and I would estimate that every other time I used that section I do get overtaken... Trying to be intimidated by drivers revving up behind, flashing and hooting I can cope with... It just becomes so much more dangerous and completely against the point of having the limit in the first place when you see cars shooting past at god knows what speeds !...
Raify said:AGRH, you nutcase, don't you know that even 20MPH is too fast!
This is interesting, a village near where I work has recently installed a 20mph limit (when all it really needs is some good parking provision). I've usually just kept to a definite 30..
I wonder what the lowest speed conviction has been in the country. Anyone been unlucky enough to get nicked at 23mph?
I reckon I could sprint faster than 20 (for a few metres)!
Re: Richmond Park, if the limit is to reduce pollution, surely they should ban cars over a certain CO2 emissions level?
Bournemouth and Poole promenade anyone?
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=10&h=&t=122258
supraman2954 said:
Bournemouth and Poole promenade anyone?
<a href="http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=10&h=&t=122258">www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=10&h=&t=122258</a>
Just read that
In anycase, back to the 20 limit, how accurate would 20mph be on a speedo that reads 180, 200 or more mph ? The margin of error must be significant ??
ws6 said:
Just read that
In anycase, back to the 20 limit, how accurate would 20mph be on a speedo that reads 180, 200 or more mph ? The margin of error must be significant ??
Bloody good point. I had an integrale that used to do 20kph whilst parked up!
wouldn't it just be easier to get that bloke with the red flag to walk in front of everyone?
hmmmm 20mph limits or "areas of sandalist silliness" as I prefer to call them are a bad idea. They encourage children to treat every road like a play street and will inevitably increase death. This in turn will cause the thinkofthechidrenists to insist on even lower speed limits which will in the end prevent the economy from operating and the whole place will end up like Ethiopia. George Monbiot will then be happy because we will all be starving but at least we will be truly equal.
As for by laws-they are really a load of crap. I once saw an enforcement warden limping up Abersoch beach with his bull horn handle stuck up his arse. It had been put there by a man from Glasgow who refused to pay the fine or recognise his authority.
As for by laws-they are really a load of crap. I once saw an enforcement warden limping up Abersoch beach with his bull horn handle stuck up his arse. It had been put there by a man from Glasgow who refused to pay the fine or recognise his authority.
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