Attacking fire engines
Discussion
Whatever my feelings for the government /law and order I could NEVER bring myself to do anything like this!!!
Cameras to foil fire crew attacks
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Firefighters are coming under more attacks while on duty
Fire crews in south Wales are planning to install cameras on their vehicles to help combat increasing violence from gangs.
It follows a series of attacks on firefighters by groups of youths.
The latest were on Sunday in the south Wales valleys, when stones were thrown at a crew in Aberfan, and about 50 youths hurled builders' materials at another crew in Gilfach Goch.
Fire chiefs say blazes are often begun deliberately to lure crews to an area.
Violence against firefighters has become a major concern for fire service chiefs.
On Sunday, fire crews dealing with a fire involving rubber matting at the rear of Ynys Owen Nursery School in Aberfan had stones thrown at them by a group of youths.
There is definite evidence that some of these attacks are planned
Roger Price, South Wales Fire Service
Later on, another crew came under attack from a group of about 50 young people as they tackled two rubbish fires in the Hendreforgan area of Gilfach Goch.
South Wales Fire Service fears that more incidents are likely as the schools break up for half-term and bonfire night approaches.
In a trial, cameras are being installed on engines to film any attacks the crews come under while on call-outs.
Cameras have already been installed onto appliances in other brigades to deter gangs.
Roger Price, assistant divisional commander for South Wales Fire Service, said it was part of efforts to combat the growing problem of violence.
"It is to try and protect the fire crews - we hope it will deter these individuals who are willing to carry out these attacks," he said.
Recordings could be used to help police prosecute any individuals caught throwing missiles at the crews.
"There is definite evidence that some of these attacks are planned," he said.
Emergency treatment
"Quite often these fires have been started to lure fire crews into that area. It can occur any time and any place throughout south Wales.
"What concerns me is that there is the potential for death or serious injury from these attacks.
"They are throwing concrete bricks and it is quite scary," he added.
Some fire crews covering south Wales are subjected to almost daily attacks from gangs of youths.
Fire chiefs say the problem is becoming more violent and prolific and reports of violence against crews are on the increase.
Last October, a firefighter had to have emergency treatment after he was hit on the head by a brick thrown by a gang of youths.
The incident happened as a four-man crew tried to extinguish a rubbish fire in Trelewis near Merthyr Tydfil.
Youths stoned the fire engine before targeting the firefighters - hitting one of them on the head with a brick with such force that it split his helmet.
Firefighter Sabrina Cohen from Cross Keys is currently on an international fact-finding mission on how to deal with violence against fire crews, and her findings will be used by the brigade.
Ermmmm... LESS CAMERAS AND MORE POLICE MAYBE??!
Cameras to foil fire crew attacks
*************************************************
Firefighters are coming under more attacks while on duty
Fire crews in south Wales are planning to install cameras on their vehicles to help combat increasing violence from gangs.
It follows a series of attacks on firefighters by groups of youths.
The latest were on Sunday in the south Wales valleys, when stones were thrown at a crew in Aberfan, and about 50 youths hurled builders' materials at another crew in Gilfach Goch.
Fire chiefs say blazes are often begun deliberately to lure crews to an area.
Violence against firefighters has become a major concern for fire service chiefs.
On Sunday, fire crews dealing with a fire involving rubber matting at the rear of Ynys Owen Nursery School in Aberfan had stones thrown at them by a group of youths.
There is definite evidence that some of these attacks are planned
Roger Price, South Wales Fire Service
Later on, another crew came under attack from a group of about 50 young people as they tackled two rubbish fires in the Hendreforgan area of Gilfach Goch.
South Wales Fire Service fears that more incidents are likely as the schools break up for half-term and bonfire night approaches.
In a trial, cameras are being installed on engines to film any attacks the crews come under while on call-outs.
Cameras have already been installed onto appliances in other brigades to deter gangs.
Roger Price, assistant divisional commander for South Wales Fire Service, said it was part of efforts to combat the growing problem of violence.
"It is to try and protect the fire crews - we hope it will deter these individuals who are willing to carry out these attacks," he said.
Recordings could be used to help police prosecute any individuals caught throwing missiles at the crews.
"There is definite evidence that some of these attacks are planned," he said.
Emergency treatment
"Quite often these fires have been started to lure fire crews into that area. It can occur any time and any place throughout south Wales.
"What concerns me is that there is the potential for death or serious injury from these attacks.
"They are throwing concrete bricks and it is quite scary," he added.
Some fire crews covering south Wales are subjected to almost daily attacks from gangs of youths.
Fire chiefs say the problem is becoming more violent and prolific and reports of violence against crews are on the increase.
Last October, a firefighter had to have emergency treatment after he was hit on the head by a brick thrown by a gang of youths.
The incident happened as a four-man crew tried to extinguish a rubbish fire in Trelewis near Merthyr Tydfil.
Youths stoned the fire engine before targeting the firefighters - hitting one of them on the head with a brick with such force that it split his helmet.
Firefighter Sabrina Cohen from Cross Keys is currently on an international fact-finding mission on how to deal with violence against fire crews, and her findings will be used by the brigade.
bbc said:
Firefighter Sabrina Cohen from Cross Keys is currently on an international fact-finding mission on how to deal with violence against fire crews, and her findings will be used by the brigade.
Ermmmm... LESS CAMERAS AND MORE POLICE MAYBE??!
TripleS said:
What the hell is going on? I simply don't understand the mentality there. Does anyone?
My instinct would be to punish the culprits very severely, but I'd still like to know WHY they do it.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
What makes it even more unbelieveable is they are actually LURING them out there!! Why?! Why dont they set up a burberry stall and lure a bunch of fellow chavs out to beat the
out of instead of hard working people! Time to start some kind of chav civil war methinks. Maybe they will have a Kappa and Burberry clan that will meet and hopefully destroy each other!
TripleS said:
What the hell is going on? I simply don't understand the mentality there. Does anyone?
My instinct would be to punish the culprits very severely, but I'd still like to know WHY they do it.
I think it's reaction against authority. We're building an "us and them" society where "authority" is frequently "them".
Not wanting to sound rude or aggressive (and will probably be slated by you lot)
But so what???? Police and Ambulance crews have been getting it for years, and now the fire service are getting it BIG WOOP,
4 months ago my crew mate was sexualy assulted in the back of a wagon and the little bastard got away with it, but that never masde the papers, 3 days ago a mate of mine(copper) was smacked in the mouth by a punter again nothing done and didn't reach the news,
Everyday across the country police and ambulance personal are being beaten, kicked, punched, attacked, abused etc etc etc etc, and none of it never reashes the news or papers, so why he big ho ha for the fire service 
But so what???? Police and Ambulance crews have been getting it for years, and now the fire service are getting it BIG WOOP,
4 months ago my crew mate was sexualy assulted in the back of a wagon and the little bastard got away with it, but that never masde the papers, 3 days ago a mate of mine(copper) was smacked in the mouth by a punter again nothing done and didn't reach the news,
Everyday across the country police and ambulance personal are being beaten, kicked, punched, attacked, abused etc etc etc etc, and none of it never reashes the news or papers, so why he big
ho ha for the fire service 
tigerbear, I understand your anger, but the simple answer to your question was given by you yourself... we don't know it's going on!
I've always known that the police get a lot of stick whilst on duty, but I had no idea that ambulance and fire crews came under fire, that really does astonish me. And that's why a big deal is being made about the attacks on the fire crews, the idea of biting the hand that saves you simply beggars belief. You (and your crew mate) have my sympathy.
I've always known that the police get a lot of stick whilst on duty, but I had no idea that ambulance and fire crews came under fire, that really does astonish me. And that's why a big deal is being made about the attacks on the fire crews, the idea of biting the hand that saves you simply beggars belief. You (and your crew mate) have my sympathy.
This sort of thing is sickening, but what puzzles me just as much is why it is thought that installing cameras is a solution.
We used to have improving road safety, now we have cameras.
We used to have plods walking our city streets. Now we have replaced them with ineffective CCTV and street crime is soaring.
Have we learned nothing?
I'm sure this could be stamped out very easily. I have no doubt that the fire crews or their despatchers will recognise the "profile" of a typical hoax shout, so the next time why not send a covert van full of officers to wade in and arrest the perpetrators? By all means use a video camera, but use it to film the scum being arrested rather than to film them having their fun.
A few high profile cases where the troublemakers get carted off and locked up would be a simple and effective solution. Putting them on camera merely turns them into film stars, as they know only too well that the chances of it leading to a prosecution are minimal. Catch them red-handed in front of witnesses and it becomes a lot simpler.
We used to have improving road safety, now we have cameras.
We used to have plods walking our city streets. Now we have replaced them with ineffective CCTV and street crime is soaring.
Have we learned nothing?
I'm sure this could be stamped out very easily. I have no doubt that the fire crews or their despatchers will recognise the "profile" of a typical hoax shout, so the next time why not send a covert van full of officers to wade in and arrest the perpetrators? By all means use a video camera, but use it to film the scum being arrested rather than to film them having their fun.
A few high profile cases where the troublemakers get carted off and locked up would be a simple and effective solution. Putting them on camera merely turns them into film stars, as they know only too well that the chances of it leading to a prosecution are minimal. Catch them red-handed in front of witnesses and it becomes a lot simpler.
mr2mike said:
They have high pressure hoses...perhaps they should be given permission to use them on the scum.
Either that, or like during the strikes, make use of the army firefighters for a while in the areas where this is happening. Only let them take their SA80s on call with them.
To me it seems like the group of scum behind these sort of attacks do it to prove how big and tough they are fighting authority. But obviously not big and tough enough to take on the police so they go for weaker targets like the firefighters and medical people. Who's going to be next, librarians?
BlackStuff said:
I'm sure this could be stamped out very easily. I have no doubt that the fire crews or their despatchers will recognise the "profile" of a typical hoax shout, so the next time why not send a covert van full of officers to wade in and arrest the perpetrators? By all means use a video camera, but use it to film the scum being arrested rather than to film them having their fun.
Arrest them? Bollox to that. Wade into the little sh1ts and send them home with something to think about.
(And tigerbear (and other BiB), it's disgusting that anything like this happens to any of the emergency services. I think the shock of this is that unlike the fire/ambulance peeps, you BiB are expected to deal with scum like this
)And the real problem is that there are too many do gooders who will want to "understand why they are so angry with authority" instead of kicking the shit out of them.I was listening to radio 2 today and there were two charities debating, one who has been given money from the goverment to take scrotes and teach them how to beat each other in the boxing ring. The other guy was moaning how his charity gets no money when understanding and kindness was the best way.Charities who pander to the chavs, scotes malcontents and underacheivers in scociety, have made themselves into multi million pound businesses with good salaries etc and perpetuate the problem not solve it. If the fire men turned their hoses on the yobs who would be punised worse. You all know the answer there they would appoint a team of specialist to help the yob but the system would lambast the victim. God it makes me angry.
Yes, the scum who lay traps for fire crews are indeed scum.
But there was always scum, and this sort of thing simply didn't happen when I was a lad.
So we need to consider what's changed in society to cause it now. Some proposals:
* Punishment is not sufficient, or else it's too remote (take place out of the context of the offence).
* Respect for authority is so very damaged that overwhelming disrespect (verging on hatred) has taken its place.
* For some reason the scum only sees the uniform and not the people.
* PCness prevents the instant justice (let's get 'em lads) that may have been the norm in the past.
* The scum is now completely warped by drugs or greed.
* Any more?
I'm quite sure we should blame the scum - but blaming the scum in itself isn't going to fix the problem. We really do need to understand what's gone wrong if we're to get back to a society where this sort of thing simply didn't happen.
But there was always scum, and this sort of thing simply didn't happen when I was a lad.
So we need to consider what's changed in society to cause it now. Some proposals:
* Punishment is not sufficient, or else it's too remote (take place out of the context of the offence).
* Respect for authority is so very damaged that overwhelming disrespect (verging on hatred) has taken its place.
* For some reason the scum only sees the uniform and not the people.
* PCness prevents the instant justice (let's get 'em lads) that may have been the norm in the past.
* The scum is now completely warped by drugs or greed.
* Any more?
I'm quite sure we should blame the scum - but blaming the scum in itself isn't going to fix the problem. We really do need to understand what's gone wrong if we're to get back to a society where this sort of thing simply didn't happen.
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