Why do you keep whinging about the plod?
Discussion
This is not meant to be a moan at the whingers, but a serious question. I keep reading all the moans and whinges about the police pulling people up for silly reasons or being heavy handed with motorists.
I have been driving since 1973 and have very rarely been hassled by the police. Most of the times that I have been pulled it has been because I was doing something wrong. In the 31 years on the road I have had 3 or 4 speeding nicks and each one I was taking the pee (one was 60mph in a 30mph limit in a truck) and on each of those occasions the officers were polite to me.
When the police are out in force catching tax dodgers or dodgy cars they are there generaly at the request of VOSA or the DVLA and I am sure they would rather be doing something else.
As for speed cameras, I would rather know that the next camera is round the corner than not know where the next police car may be hiding, to which point you don't see that many traffic cars on the road any more which I prefer.
So, am I lucky in not getting too much trouble from the BIB over the years or are other people over sensitive?
I have been driving since 1973 and have very rarely been hassled by the police. Most of the times that I have been pulled it has been because I was doing something wrong. In the 31 years on the road I have had 3 or 4 speeding nicks and each one I was taking the pee (one was 60mph in a 30mph limit in a truck) and on each of those occasions the officers were polite to me.
When the police are out in force catching tax dodgers or dodgy cars they are there generaly at the request of VOSA or the DVLA and I am sure they would rather be doing something else.
As for speed cameras, I would rather know that the next camera is round the corner than not know where the next police car may be hiding, to which point you don't see that many traffic cars on the road any more which I prefer.
So, am I lucky in not getting too much trouble from the BIB over the years or are other people over sensitive?
I think there are those that are on side with the BIB, those that are proactively offside with the BIB, those that have a bad experience with the BIB and those that blame the BIB for government decision that they are told to enforce.
I would say 80% of the rants on here are the latter, 10% those that have had a bad experience and 10% that just fancy winding things up a little for the hell of it.
Personally, i have only ever been pulled over for doing something wrong and 3 out os 5 times have been let off. Similarly in my younger years outside clubs casuing unecessary trouble, i got all i deserved.
I have no doubt others will disagree but that is just my thoughts on the subject.
I would say 80% of the rants on here are the latter, 10% those that have had a bad experience and 10% that just fancy winding things up a little for the hell of it.
Personally, i have only ever been pulled over for doing something wrong and 3 out os 5 times have been let off. Similarly in my younger years outside clubs casuing unecessary trouble, i got all i deserved.
I have no doubt others will disagree but that is just my thoughts on the subject.
I just posted this on another thread to try to explain things a little:-
Ok,
The police service for one is not a democracy.
We dont have a say in any legislation (im talking about PC's). The only forum to voice any views is the police federation as far as i am aware.
The Police camera vans are staffed by police yes, and it is there choice to man them. I for one wont use any kind of pressure on them to stop, as what they are doing is not unlawful. And they are Police officers and i would like to think other officers would not use any pressure on them. (mainly due to the fact that generally we look after our own so to speak as the public wont)
Civilian operators are employed on the large part by camera partnerships, as it is civilian based the police have very little say in the matter i think.
Speed cameras are again there by the camera partnerships and the yellow ones we retain some of the cash from (im not in management so cant comment with total accuracy)
My main issue here is that we do a difficult job and speeding is part of that job done by officers. But more and more is done by civlian or government agencies. I dont see how we get bashed by MoP's because of the way the government decides to enforce speeding by use of civilian agencies or staff.
The vast majority of us spend alot of time dealing with actual crimes and traffic offences the time to actually protest this would take us well into overtime (at a cost) or mean less time was involved in dealing with crime. As it can be the case quite often that i will arrest someone within the first hour of my shift, then the other 8 hrs are spend interviewing, charging, preparing the case file.
The fact that is lost sometimes is we have discression, i have stopped motorists over the limit and choose to give a warning due to taking all factors into account, but i have also given 3 points and reported for summons.
The only way we can object to something is to use the federation, who have been campainging for less cameras more traffpol on our behalf.
Believe it or not, our hands are tied somewhat. And yes it can be a career limiting move sometimes, but i love my job, i have worked hard to get into the force. And we work long hours dealing with the very things that hurt people or cause them distress, sometimes we fail but that is not always down to officers, its down to police numbers on shift covering an area meaning we cant give you the service you deserve. When i deal with burglaries, i would like to take the time to ensure everything is right and if a suspect is caught i have all the evidence i need to secure a conviction (if he only gets a 12 month supervision order then thats the courts fault not mine) but more frequently we dont have the time we would like to put in on these jobs as control hastle us to redeploy us. Again down to numbers.
I supose my main gripe is that i have been in situations where i was at severe risk of getting hurt, all to protect someone. I know its my job and i know the risks, its just that alot of people who arnt officers have no idea what we do and will never understand, as it all very nice watching cops fight on TV, try being there when someone is waving a metal bar about and you have to restrain him before he hurts or kills you, a colleague, or a MoP.
And i spose in a way as an officer alot of things become trivial compared to what we deal with, and i have to say speed cameras are trivial things in life compared to what really goes on out there and what people go through that others rarely see.
I appreciate that from the outside you see one side of the police, but you dont see what really happends. And i appreciate that speed cameras are a major problem for everyone else, but in reality there are not worth worrying about because i need to divote my time and efforts into the more serious problems of kids fighting with knives, robbing and stabbing people for mobile phones, car crime, burglary. Everything hopefully you will never have to face yourselves.
It is really hard to explain what really goes on unless you see it for yourself. Im not trying to justify anything, im just trying to put it into perspective from what the police deal with everyday. And why we cant just stand up to the government, let alone spend the time to do this.
With or without the publics support we still do this job and i still love it. But the tide will turn and suddenly the police wont give a toss about the public, we do this job because we actually want to help you, but the errosion of support will eventually wear that down, the good guys will leave and see what your left with.
Ok,
The police service for one is not a democracy.
We dont have a say in any legislation (im talking about PC's). The only forum to voice any views is the police federation as far as i am aware.
The Police camera vans are staffed by police yes, and it is there choice to man them. I for one wont use any kind of pressure on them to stop, as what they are doing is not unlawful. And they are Police officers and i would like to think other officers would not use any pressure on them. (mainly due to the fact that generally we look after our own so to speak as the public wont)
Civilian operators are employed on the large part by camera partnerships, as it is civilian based the police have very little say in the matter i think.
Speed cameras are again there by the camera partnerships and the yellow ones we retain some of the cash from (im not in management so cant comment with total accuracy)
My main issue here is that we do a difficult job and speeding is part of that job done by officers. But more and more is done by civlian or government agencies. I dont see how we get bashed by MoP's because of the way the government decides to enforce speeding by use of civilian agencies or staff.
The vast majority of us spend alot of time dealing with actual crimes and traffic offences the time to actually protest this would take us well into overtime (at a cost) or mean less time was involved in dealing with crime. As it can be the case quite often that i will arrest someone within the first hour of my shift, then the other 8 hrs are spend interviewing, charging, preparing the case file.
The fact that is lost sometimes is we have discression, i have stopped motorists over the limit and choose to give a warning due to taking all factors into account, but i have also given 3 points and reported for summons.
The only way we can object to something is to use the federation, who have been campainging for less cameras more traffpol on our behalf.
Believe it or not, our hands are tied somewhat. And yes it can be a career limiting move sometimes, but i love my job, i have worked hard to get into the force. And we work long hours dealing with the very things that hurt people or cause them distress, sometimes we fail but that is not always down to officers, its down to police numbers on shift covering an area meaning we cant give you the service you deserve. When i deal with burglaries, i would like to take the time to ensure everything is right and if a suspect is caught i have all the evidence i need to secure a conviction (if he only gets a 12 month supervision order then thats the courts fault not mine) but more frequently we dont have the time we would like to put in on these jobs as control hastle us to redeploy us. Again down to numbers.
I supose my main gripe is that i have been in situations where i was at severe risk of getting hurt, all to protect someone. I know its my job and i know the risks, its just that alot of people who arnt officers have no idea what we do and will never understand, as it all very nice watching cops fight on TV, try being there when someone is waving a metal bar about and you have to restrain him before he hurts or kills you, a colleague, or a MoP.
And i spose in a way as an officer alot of things become trivial compared to what we deal with, and i have to say speed cameras are trivial things in life compared to what really goes on out there and what people go through that others rarely see.
I appreciate that from the outside you see one side of the police, but you dont see what really happends. And i appreciate that speed cameras are a major problem for everyone else, but in reality there are not worth worrying about because i need to divote my time and efforts into the more serious problems of kids fighting with knives, robbing and stabbing people for mobile phones, car crime, burglary. Everything hopefully you will never have to face yourselves.
It is really hard to explain what really goes on unless you see it for yourself. Im not trying to justify anything, im just trying to put it into perspective from what the police deal with everyday. And why we cant just stand up to the government, let alone spend the time to do this.
With or without the publics support we still do this job and i still love it. But the tide will turn and suddenly the police wont give a toss about the public, we do this job because we actually want to help you, but the errosion of support will eventually wear that down, the good guys will leave and see what your left with.
Personally, I think some see the BiB as the public face of legislation. Some of us are sensible enough to realise that this is not the case, and that you are just another employee carrying out the wishes of his/her employer.
The fact that you post on SPL shows that you have a thicker skin than most!
For me, the only thing that really grates in posts by BiB is the "if only you saw the things that I see" or "My job is dangerous and I could get hurt". we all appreciate that, and many would not choose to swap professions. However, please remember that your career is your own choice, and playing the martyr(sp?) does not really work for me.
Other than that, keep up the good work.
Steve
The fact that you post on SPL shows that you have a thicker skin than most!
For me, the only thing that really grates in posts by BiB is the "if only you saw the things that I see" or "My job is dangerous and I could get hurt". we all appreciate that, and many would not choose to swap professions. However, please remember that your career is your own choice, and playing the martyr(sp?) does not really work for me.
Other than that, keep up the good work.
Steve
Nice post Towman....
I think the reason the odd BiB post comes across in the 'if you see the things I see' way (and I'm probably guilty than most) is that ones views change the more one experiences things. BiB just experience the darker sides of life...the side that most MoP would also like to see, if the amount of rubbernecking on motorways or the number of TV programs about the emergency services is anything to go by...
Street
I think the reason the odd BiB post comes across in the 'if you see the things I see' way (and I'm probably guilty than most) is that ones views change the more one experiences things. BiB just experience the darker sides of life...the side that most MoP would also like to see, if the amount of rubbernecking on motorways or the number of TV programs about the emergency services is anything to go by...
Street
There a good bad people in every profession it's just the police are faceless as you no longer have you're local bobby who everyone knows, so when you deal with one copper you think they are all the same - Actually I think they are bringing that back aren't they, community beat officers or something?
I got pulled a very long time ago by a copper who was rude and arrogant and it blatantly came from jealousy of the car I was driving. It's easy to become defensive next time you get pulled when you have been treated like this and I do sense a bit of that attitude on here, not the jealousy but arrogance "we are the law".
Having said that my main point really is that an internet forum called 'Speed Plod & Law' is going to be filled with negative vibes about the police as usually you're only going to post in here if you have been done for something and you think it is unfair, which on the whole most speed restriction and enforcement is unfair.
Most people will have nothing to do with the police during their life if they are normal law abiding citizens. Their only contact is likely to be through a motoring offence and as everyone thinks they are the best driver in the world they'll take the hump - the nanny speed limits don't help either.
The only other time they're likely to come across the police is if they get burgled and more often than not the police can't do much about catching the people that do these crimes, so in the eyes of the victim the Police are useless.
With regards to "some of the stuff I've seen" I know how bad it can be, both my father and my father in law are ex-police and I have several associates that are in the police (CID to be exact) and some of the stuff they come out with is pretty hideous. There are murders and all sorts of stuff going on that you're not even aware of through the local press. So I can see that it is very easy for Bib to think of everyone as a criminal.
I got pulled a very long time ago by a copper who was rude and arrogant and it blatantly came from jealousy of the car I was driving. It's easy to become defensive next time you get pulled when you have been treated like this and I do sense a bit of that attitude on here, not the jealousy but arrogance "we are the law".
Having said that my main point really is that an internet forum called 'Speed Plod & Law' is going to be filled with negative vibes about the police as usually you're only going to post in here if you have been done for something and you think it is unfair, which on the whole most speed restriction and enforcement is unfair.
Most people will have nothing to do with the police during their life if they are normal law abiding citizens. Their only contact is likely to be through a motoring offence and as everyone thinks they are the best driver in the world they'll take the hump - the nanny speed limits don't help either.
The only other time they're likely to come across the police is if they get burgled and more often than not the police can't do much about catching the people that do these crimes, so in the eyes of the victim the Police are useless.
With regards to "some of the stuff I've seen" I know how bad it can be, both my father and my father in law are ex-police and I have several associates that are in the police (CID to be exact) and some of the stuff they come out with is pretty hideous. There are murders and all sorts of stuff going on that you're not even aware of through the local press. So I can see that it is very easy for Bib to think of everyone as a criminal.
I post the "if you see what we see" "risk getting hurt" comments etc purely to put accross the BiB perspective on things and why we will take offence at some of the things that are posted here, not for sympathy, or one upmanship, just a perspective.
Yes we do know the risks, and we choose to still do the job. My point there was that you see all the persuits, weekend scrapping with drunks on telly and i admit it does look like fun (yes sometimes it is) but in reality being a police officer is more than that. We still deal with the crappy side of life and people, and i would think if anyone here could actually see what we do rather than just catch motorists speeding, or the bad stuff you see in the press then all the bashing we get would suddenly back off.
Its not an easy job, sometimes the crims just fall into your lap, sometimes we cant catch the crim, but i just feel that some people need to see the bigger picture of what the police really do, not what they think we do or see on telly.
Yes we do know the risks, and we choose to still do the job. My point there was that you see all the persuits, weekend scrapping with drunks on telly and i admit it does look like fun (yes sometimes it is) but in reality being a police officer is more than that. We still deal with the crappy side of life and people, and i would think if anyone here could actually see what we do rather than just catch motorists speeding, or the bad stuff you see in the press then all the bashing we get would suddenly back off.
Its not an easy job, sometimes the crims just fall into your lap, sometimes we cant catch the crim, but i just feel that some people need to see the bigger picture of what the police really do, not what they think we do or see on telly.
^Slider^ said:
I post the "if you see what we see" "risk getting hurt" comments etc purely to put accross the BiB perspective on things and why we will take offence at some of the things that are posted here, not for sympathy, or one upmanship, just a perspective.
Yes we do know the risks, and we choose to still do the job. My point there was that you see all the persuits, weekend scrapping with drunks on telly and i admit it does look like fun (yes sometimes it is) but in reality being a police officer is more than that. We still deal with the crappy side of life and people, and i would think if anyone here could actually see what we do rather than just catch motorists speeding, or the bad stuff you see in the press then all the bashing we get would suddenly back off.
Its not an easy job, sometimes the crims just fall into your lap, sometimes we cant catch the crim, but i just feel that some people need to see the bigger picture of what the police really do, not what they think we do or see on telly.
Personally I think the majority of the police force are decent people who should be admired. I have considered becoming a dibble myself (assumming they'd have me!) but the following reasons deterred me:
(1) I'd probably have to make Chief-Super-Boss-God Inspector-Commisioner before I could earn the salary to maintain my current lifestyle.
(2) I know I'd get p1ssed off at catching scrotes only to see them given 10 hours community service by some idiot on the bench because they had a tough childhood.
(3) I'm not sure I would be able to prevent myself from punching some of the people I'd have to deal with - imagine arresting someone who's just mugged an old lady and knowing he'll get nothing like the sentence he deserves...
(4) I'd be frustrated at enforcing legislation that is patently wrong.
I've been stopped in my car by the police at least eight times. On one occasion the policeman was just being a tw@t, on the other seven either I was in the wrong (mostly when I was a student and couldn't afford to maintain my ancient cars so I'd have a blowing exhaust or faulty lights, etc. - no such problems with the Tiv
) or it was just a check. (Since I bought a decent car (starting with a fairly new Megane) I've never been stopped). On all seven occasions the police were decent with me. I particularly appreciated this when I had done something wrong and I got a b0ll0cking (which I took seriously and acted on) and then sent on my way.
I also think the PH dibble generally do a good PR job for the police and are usually very helpful so thanks guys (even if StreetCop is a bit censored these days
).
So, all in, the police are a decent sort generally. By all means blame individuals if they are rude, etc., but people shouldn't tar the whole force with the same brush because they've had maybe one bad experience, particularly if being a copper is a job the person doesn't fancy....
(1) I'd probably have to make Chief-Super-Boss-God Inspector-Commisioner before I could earn the salary to maintain my current lifestyle.
(2) I know I'd get p1ssed off at catching scrotes only to see them given 10 hours community service by some idiot on the bench because they had a tough childhood.
(3) I'm not sure I would be able to prevent myself from punching some of the people I'd have to deal with - imagine arresting someone who's just mugged an old lady and knowing he'll get nothing like the sentence he deserves...
(4) I'd be frustrated at enforcing legislation that is patently wrong.
I've been stopped in my car by the police at least eight times. On one occasion the policeman was just being a tw@t, on the other seven either I was in the wrong (mostly when I was a student and couldn't afford to maintain my ancient cars so I'd have a blowing exhaust or faulty lights, etc. - no such problems with the Tiv
) or it was just a check. (Since I bought a decent car (starting with a fairly new Megane) I've never been stopped). On all seven occasions the police were decent with me. I particularly appreciated this when I had done something wrong and I got a b0ll0cking (which I took seriously and acted on) and then sent on my way. I also think the PH dibble generally do a good PR job for the police and are usually very helpful so thanks guys (even if StreetCop is a bit censored these days
). So, all in, the police are a decent sort generally. By all means blame individuals if they are rude, etc., but people shouldn't tar the whole force with the same brush because they've had maybe one bad experience, particularly if being a copper is a job the person doesn't fancy....
Streetcop said:
I post the "if you see what we see" "risk getting hurt" comments etc purely to put accross the BiB perspective on things and why we will take offence at some of the things that are posted here, not for sympathy, or one upmanship, just a perspective.
Yes we do know the risks, and we choose to still do the job. My point there was that you see all the persuits, weekend scrapping with drunks on telly and i admit it does look like fun (yes sometimes it is) but in reality being a police officer is more than that. We still deal with the crappy side of life and people, and i would think if anyone here could actually see what we do rather than just catch motorists speeding, or the bad stuff you see in the press then all the bashing we get would suddenly back off.
Its not an easy job, sometimes the crims just fall into your lap, sometimes we cant catch the crim, but i just feel that some people need to see the bigger picture of what the police really do, not what they think we do or see on telly.
Seconded.
(I still think stopping someone for a mis-spaced but otherwise perfectly legal numberplate is a bit much though
).Streetcop said:
(I still think stopping someone for a mis-spaced but otherwise perfectly legal numberplate is a bit much though
You never know what else you find...
Street
Fair point, stopping using that as the 'excuse' is fine, but I'd be irritated if I was made to change it, or worse, fined on the spot.
Streetcop said:
Which do you mean as an excuse?
I mean that it is technically an offence, but in the real world does no harm since it can be read by the public just as, if not more easily, than when properly spaced. Further, because the size and font are standard it should not trip up automated plate reading systems. Therefore, as it does no harm I would see it as being overly anal were I forced to change it by plod.
Streetcop said:
As for the plate...if it's mispaced, I'll offer the driver VDRS, every time...
Is that similar to a Vehicle Rectification Notice? If so, then we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one for the reasons outlined above.
^Slider^ said:
We still deal with the crappy side of life and people, and i would think if anyone here could actually see what we do rather than just catch motorists speeding, or the bad stuff you see in the press then all the bashing we get would suddenly back off.
I'd be suprised if anyone with any intelligence actually thought that plod didn't have to deal with lots of very horrible things and did an excellent job dealing with them.
IMO any resentment is generally towards the actual justice system and the punishments they dish out and the fact that, in the motorists' eyes, it is unfairly weighted.
It is public perception that a burglar might get community service, or an unlicenced driver gets a driving ban - while a tax paying, 99.99% law abiding motorist gets 4 strikes (of 3 pts) before they lose their job, income, house and possibly family.
This, alongside the fact that there are forces at work to manipulate speed limits and generally increase the amount of drivers caught who are represented by the POLICE (even a scamera letter looks like it comes from plod), to me is why the police often get a public bashing on forums like this. It's really the same as moaning at the teacher because the government has changed the school system - pointless but also not suprising as they are the public 'face' of the policy makers.
Plod in person are normally as nice as you are to them - like big attitude mirrors. A scamera operator is indiscriminate and is dressed like plod - in a plod type van, with plod reflective logos - it's not suprising lots of people think of them as the same thing, and make their feelings known. Traffic wardens are differently dressed and are generally thought of as a different entity.
Just IMO, obviously.
Yeah i understand that, but also bear in mind that the resentment for the guys being let off with silly sentences is probably more so from police than public, as for example, we deal with the aftermath of a crime (deal with victim)then we investigate the crime (xx hours / days) find our man or woman, interview, hopefully charge, then spend a good number of hours doing the court file, possibly spend a day in court, then suspect gets a puny sentence. And then we probably see the suspect again, repeating the offence and so the circle goes on.
Traffic offences are different, and sometimes they are not all that hard to get away with if you present the right attitude to the officer that stops you. But be warned we will remember you for next time of the fault is not rectified or manor of driving does not improve.
Traffic stops disclose other offences as well its traffic stops that generate other arrests such as theft or brugalry, drug offences etc, as an officer said to me recently... Someone may get away without going to prison for ages and repeating the crime, but get them banned then the chances go up of them going to prison for traffic offences. What duties did the officer that caught jack the ripper i believe? Traffic..
I generally treat people the way they treat me, they have done something minor wrong and give me stick then they get fined or points. If they are reasonable and willing to listen then as an act of good faith they get a telling off and a warning.
Traffic offences are different, and sometimes they are not all that hard to get away with if you present the right attitude to the officer that stops you. But be warned we will remember you for next time of the fault is not rectified or manor of driving does not improve.
Traffic stops disclose other offences as well its traffic stops that generate other arrests such as theft or brugalry, drug offences etc, as an officer said to me recently... Someone may get away without going to prison for ages and repeating the crime, but get them banned then the chances go up of them going to prison for traffic offences. What duties did the officer that caught jack the ripper i believe? Traffic..
I generally treat people the way they treat me, they have done something minor wrong and give me stick then they get fined or points. If they are reasonable and willing to listen then as an act of good faith they get a telling off and a warning.
roadsweeper said:
Which do you mean as an excuse?
I mean that it is technically an offence, but in the real world does no harm since it can be read by the public just as, if not more easily, than when properly spaced. Further, because the size and font are standard it should not trip up automated plate reading systems. Therefore, as it does no harm I would see it as being overly anal were I forced to change it by plod.
Hiya roadsweeper..
I'm afraid it's one of my pet hates..along with fog lights on in clear conditions (I hate the fog light merchants more, I think)
The fact that the word it makes up might be easier than the registration, doesn't always mean it's easier to find on PNC. A witness might say, "the car had the registration BIG COCK"
Try finding that on PNC!
For example; the plate was actually B168 OCK, but the owner put a yellow rivet in the middle part of the 6 making it into a G. Moved the 8 over to the right and with other rivets made it a C.
You get what I mean..?
Streetcop said:
As for the plate...if it's mispaced, I'll offer the driver VDRS, every time...
Is that similar to a Vehicle Rectification Notice? If so, then we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one for the reasons outlined above.
[/quote] Yep. VDRS Vehicle Defect Rectification Scheme.
I do find a lot of people who have really altered their plates normally do many other things wrong.
The car that is driven on a road in the most selfish manner usually has one or more of these things, in my experience;
1) Driver no seat belt
2) Blue washer jets
3) Altered number plate, or certainly not the original
4) Fog lights on in clear conditions
5) Modification sticker or website address somewhere on the vehicle
Street
^Slider^ said:
Traffic offences are different, and sometimes they are not all that hard to get away with if you present the right attitude to the officer that stops you.
Absolutely! But I think my point was that a camera doesnt have this attitude - BUT outwardly appears to be endorsed and operated by the POLICE - undoing your good work.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff