Example of Poor Policing?
Discussion
Well, I'm not really sure about this one. I'm going to keep the area anonymous just in case, as I don't want to get anyone in trouble if the wrong person reads this. I don't think it is a serious incident but I wanted to see what PHers, and particularly the PH dibble thought...
So, I am out driving during the day today and I pull over at the side of the road to check my map. I have my window down and some noise from the pavement on the other side of the road attracts my attention. I realise a police officer is dealing with two fairly old, and certainly very drunk, men. They looked like 'down and outs' for want of a better expression and I suspect that wasn't the first time the police had had to deal with them.
The police officer is holding up the taller of the two men whilst the other drunk rants on. For a moment I think about getting out of the car to give the officer a hand, but then I realise the two guys are so drunk he could easily handle them. For some reason the police officer let go of the taller drunk and turned away and started talking in to his radio (calling in some form of support I would imagine). The next thing I see is the tall drunk falling backwards as the police officer had just stopped holding him and walked away. He was so drunk he fell over backwards without even putting out his hands. It was horrendous to see because he was so drunk his natural instincts for self preservation were completely overwhelmed.
So, the drunk falls straight back and smacks (and I mean smacks) his head into the floor of the concrete car park. The other drunk crouches down next to his mate who is still concious but obviously in pain. The short drunk has blood on his hands (I think) from the back of his friend's head. Maybe a minute or so later what looks like a medical team arrives, which stopped me getting out of the car to point out to the officer just how hard the guy's head had hit the floor (he had his back to the drunk when he fell). I was genuinely worried that although he appeared OK at the time, he could have serious problems later. However, the arrival of the medical team put my mind at rest so I went on my way.
My question is, did the police officer handle this correctly? My feeling is that he was so sick of dealing with these people that he let his standards slip a little - it really was a bad decision to just stop holding the guy up and walk off, as opposed to sitting him down for example. I think and hope on this occasion that there are no repercussions for the drunk but blows like that can kill someone and with the kind of enquiries that go on these days the plod could have been in trouble...
So, I am out driving during the day today and I pull over at the side of the road to check my map. I have my window down and some noise from the pavement on the other side of the road attracts my attention. I realise a police officer is dealing with two fairly old, and certainly very drunk, men. They looked like 'down and outs' for want of a better expression and I suspect that wasn't the first time the police had had to deal with them.
The police officer is holding up the taller of the two men whilst the other drunk rants on. For a moment I think about getting out of the car to give the officer a hand, but then I realise the two guys are so drunk he could easily handle them. For some reason the police officer let go of the taller drunk and turned away and started talking in to his radio (calling in some form of support I would imagine). The next thing I see is the tall drunk falling backwards as the police officer had just stopped holding him and walked away. He was so drunk he fell over backwards without even putting out his hands. It was horrendous to see because he was so drunk his natural instincts for self preservation were completely overwhelmed.
So, the drunk falls straight back and smacks (and I mean smacks) his head into the floor of the concrete car park. The other drunk crouches down next to his mate who is still concious but obviously in pain. The short drunk has blood on his hands (I think) from the back of his friend's head. Maybe a minute or so later what looks like a medical team arrives, which stopped me getting out of the car to point out to the officer just how hard the guy's head had hit the floor (he had his back to the drunk when he fell). I was genuinely worried that although he appeared OK at the time, he could have serious problems later. However, the arrival of the medical team put my mind at rest so I went on my way.
My question is, did the police officer handle this correctly? My feeling is that he was so sick of dealing with these people that he let his standards slip a little - it really was a bad decision to just stop holding the guy up and walk off, as opposed to sitting him down for example. I think and hope on this occasion that there are no repercussions for the drunk but blows like that can kill someone and with the kind of enquiries that go on these days the plod could have been in trouble...
catso said:
IMHO If people get themselves so f d up that they fall over and hurt themselves that's tough sh1t, why should Police waste their time Nannying drunks etc.
If you want examples of poor Policing look at any 'safety'camera partnership.
I would agree, but for one thing: Maybe he is on the streets cos he's no place left to go? Maybe he drowns out his current situation by getting so pissed that it actually helps him to forget his circumstances?
Its very very easy to condemn people when youre in an "ok" situation yourself when most things in your life are ok.
Most of us on PH would lose the plot in a very short period of time if put in that particular situation...just something to think about?...nighty night...
deltaf said:
I would agree, but for one thing: Maybe he is on the streets cos he's no place left to go? Maybe he drowns out his current situation by getting so pissed that it actually helps him to forget his circumstances?
Its very very easy to condemn people when youre in an "ok" situation yourself when most things in your life are ok.
Most of us on PH would lose the plot in a very short period of time if put in that particular situation...just something to think about?...nighty night...
but, who the hell has hijacked deltaf's profile and posted this ever-so-slighty left-wing response? 
roadsweeper said:
I would agree, but for one thing: Maybe he is on the streets cos he's no place left to go? Maybe he drowns out his current situation by getting so pissed that it actually helps him to forget his circumstances?
Its very very easy to condemn people when youre in an "ok" situation yourself when most things in your life are ok.
Most of us on PH would lose the plot in a very short period of time if put in that particular situation...just something to think about?...nighty night...
Let me add my applause to that.
Deltaf may be a serious rebel so far as speed limits are concerned, and so am I, but that does not indicate any lack of compassion or concern for the wellbeing of our fellow human beings.
As for the conduct of the police officer, I really don't know. It is impossible to do just the right thing all the time, especially when you have to deal with difficult and frustrating situations on a regular basis. I just hope the guy was not seriously hurt, but it sounded bad.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Not all down and outs in this situation are scum of the earth.It has been known for quite respectable people who previously had posh lifestyles to end up like this.
Many people with mental problems are being put out onto the streets as well instead of being looked after.
My advice would be to see how this guy is doing and maybe act as a witness if there are serious injuries. He could be dead now.
Many people with mental problems are being put out onto the streets as well instead of being looked after.
My advice would be to see how this guy is doing and maybe act as a witness if there are serious injuries. He could be dead now.
I can't see the problem....
In an ideal world the police officer perhaps could have carried the man to a place of safety and then offered black coffee and aftercare advice for hangovers...
However, it's not an ideal world...perhaps the police officer had to let go of the person to radio for an ambulance, or to request how long the ambulance was going to take to arrive...I don't know how loud the drunk was...
There's also personal space and contamination issues about 'hugging' people....
We talk on here about Nanny states and yet we are advocating that the police prevent drunks from falling in the street..
No wonder people bleat about the tax that they pay...they want the police to do everything...
Street
In an ideal world the police officer perhaps could have carried the man to a place of safety and then offered black coffee and aftercare advice for hangovers...
However, it's not an ideal world...perhaps the police officer had to let go of the person to radio for an ambulance, or to request how long the ambulance was going to take to arrive...I don't know how loud the drunk was...
There's also personal space and contamination issues about 'hugging' people....
We talk on here about Nanny states and yet we are advocating that the police prevent drunks from falling in the street..
No wonder people bleat about the tax that they pay...they want the police to do everything...
Street
Tend to agree with Street Maybe the police officer should have sat the man down; then again maybe he didn't want to sit down. Its a real shame to see people like this (i live and work in manchester and see it all the time) but its not the BiB job to tackle social issues. This is not an example of poor policing. An example of that would be using CCTV to track your ex-gilrfriend while out shopping with her new boyfriend (me) and then phoning her on her mobile to let her know she's been watched!
Maybe the police officer should have sat the man down; then again maybe he didn't want to sit down. Its a real shame to see people like this (i live and work in manchester and see it all the time) but its not the BiB job to tackle social issues. This is not an example of poor policing. An example of that would be using CCTV to track your ex-gilrfriend while out shopping with her new boyfriend (me) and then phoning her on her mobile to let her know she's been watched! MilnerR said:
.. An example of that would be using CCTV to track your ex-gilrfriend while out shopping with her new boyfriend (me) and then phoning her on her mobile to let her know she's been watched!
This happened to me as well (and worse would you believe). I got one of the emergency services involved in the end....
Streetcop said:
MilnerR
Now that does need to be complained about....
You have my full support on that matey..
Street
I was going to at the time (couple of years ago) but it would have inflamed the situation even more and i like my joints to articulate only in the direction nature intended.
She was nice but not that nice......Tricky one. Without having seen it, difficult to comment with any validity, other than it's always tricky when dealing with drunks.
How far do you go? If you've been holding them upright for five minutes, then let go of them and they walk off and trip over a kerb, is it your fault becasue you've let them walk off?
At least the guy got some medical help, rather than being carted off to the cells (I assume).
How far do you go? If you've been holding them upright for five minutes, then let go of them and they walk off and trip over a kerb, is it your fault becasue you've let them walk off?
At least the guy got some medical help, rather than being carted off to the cells (I assume).
We had this the other night in Kilburn.
Dealing with a complicated 'crime scene' and the road was cordoned off on both sides with tape etc. There were about 10 Policeman there together with the wreckage of several cars.
This p*ssed up nutter tried to get through the cordon,he was warned and subsequently arrested and placed in the seated position on the kerb. He did, however, try to get up several times and took up a lot of our valuable time...holding him down etc until he was carted off to sleep it off and collect his £80 fine.
Dealing with a complicated 'crime scene' and the road was cordoned off on both sides with tape etc. There were about 10 Policeman there together with the wreckage of several cars.
This p*ssed up nutter tried to get through the cordon,he was warned and subsequently arrested and placed in the seated position on the kerb. He did, however, try to get up several times and took up a lot of our valuable time...holding him down etc until he was carted off to sleep it off and collect his £80 fine.
For sure there are few people more annoying than aggressive drunks. To a large extent I do think it's the guy's own fault for being drunk, but I also think the police are there to serve the public and he should have taken more care. My suspicion is that night after night of dealing with that kind of sh1t had made him more careless than he should have been. Regardless, as a fan of plod generally I certainly wouldn't have said anything, hence the reason I aired it on here just to get a feel for what others thought.
StreetCop, I was a bit surprised by the tone of your post considering the discussions we have both contributed to recently. I would have thought it was obvious I'm not the type to expect the police to nanny us, in fact that's the last thing I would want, but perhaps I have to be more obvious?
StreetCop, I was a bit surprised by the tone of your post considering the discussions we have both contributed to recently. I would have thought it was obvious I'm not the type to expect the police to nanny us, in fact that's the last thing I would want, but perhaps I have to be more obvious?
Tonyrec said:
We had this the other night in Kilburn.
Dealing with a complicated 'crime scene' and the road was cordoned off on both sides with tape etc. There were about 10 Policeman there together with the wreckage of several cars.
This p*ssed up nutter tried to get through the cordon,he was warned and subsequently arrested and placed in the seated position on the kerb. He did, however, try to get up several times and took up a lot of our valuable time...holding him down etc until he was carted off to sleep it off and collect his £80 fine.
Sounds like a real tw@t.
These people should be made to pay a financial penalty for the number of police man minutes/hours they wasted. 
I had to deal with a guy who wanted to fight me because he'd been "in" with some girl before I showed up. In fact she was a friend of a friend and I had been asked to go to her rescue because he wouldn't leave her alone. I did so in the least aggressive manner possible (went over, said hi to them both and told her she had a drink at the bar) and he decided I deserved to be pulped. I won't say any more but suffice to say the ending was quite comical and he was made to look rather stupid. (I didn't hit him!) Jesus, I really hare nasty drunks.
roadsweeper said:
StreetCop, I was a bit surprised by the tone of your post considering the discussions we have both contributed to recently. I would have thought it was obvious I'm not the type to expect the police to nanny us, in fact that's the last thing I would want, but perhaps I have to be more obvious?
Sorry mate...didn't mean to come across too much like that....
I know you're a good guy....you have my vote mate.
Regards,
Street
Streetcop said:
StreetCop, I was a bit surprised by the tone of your post considering the discussions we have both contributed to recently. I would have thought it was obvious I'm not the type to expect the police to nanny us, in fact that's the last thing I would want, but perhaps I have to be more obvious?
Sorry mate...didn't mean to come across too much like that....
I know you're a good guy....you have my vote mate.
Regards,
Street
No worries, cheers for the reply.
(Of course, I'll probably get 3 points for 31mph in a 30mph zone tomorrow and a VPRN for having a dodgy plate and then I'll come on here blaming all the ills of the world on the BiB!
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