10 seconds 'parking' = 80 quid!!
Discussion
Greating all, I've been looking at this forum for a while and finally got off my lazy arse and joined up -it's strangely addictive. No prizes for guessing what I drive!
My friends dad recently received a superb photo of himself and his car on double yellows by Reading railway station. This was accompanied by a semi threatening letter saying 'its a private road, he was breaking terms and conditions by stopping there' so 80 pounds please. he was actually dropping someone off so about 10 seconds worth of parking. These terms and conditions are in 6pt type or something ridiculous on a signpost next to the bay - to read them would require getting out of your car and therefore getting a ticket.
The company employ several 'agents' to loiter by the bay and then take digital photos of drivers who stray into this 1!! bay.
They say it will be 80 pounds or 40 if he a feeling a bit scared and wants to pay up within two weeks. What can he do? Not bother paying? Send them back a digital photo of him holding two twentys and flaming their letter or pay up?
My friends dad recently received a superb photo of himself and his car on double yellows by Reading railway station. This was accompanied by a semi threatening letter saying 'its a private road, he was breaking terms and conditions by stopping there' so 80 pounds please. he was actually dropping someone off so about 10 seconds worth of parking. These terms and conditions are in 6pt type or something ridiculous on a signpost next to the bay - to read them would require getting out of your car and therefore getting a ticket.
The company employ several 'agents' to loiter by the bay and then take digital photos of drivers who stray into this 1!! bay.
They say it will be 80 pounds or 40 if he a feeling a bit scared and wants to pay up within two weeks. What can he do? Not bother paying? Send them back a digital photo of him holding two twentys and flaming their letter or pay up?
Raify said:
stuff
What he said. It was a feature on Fifth Gear the other week. Completely un-enforceable and would never get to court.
File it in the bin.
And if they harass you take them to court for attempted extortion......according to my legal guys you'd win hands down......
Does the ticket mention any appeal procedure, if it does enter one straight away on the grounds you mention. This will keep the option of only 40 notes open while it is considered and you marshall more evidence.
Find out if you can if there is a Traffic Order for the double yellow and inspect it as it may contain a clause exempting stopping for the purpose of dropping/picking up passengers.
LA or as you mention near Railway Station local BiB or BTC may be able to help to ID.
If Order in force then signing has to comply with Traffic Signs and General Directions 2004 as to width of lines and manner in which they end with a T across and upright signs to accompany(otherwise illegal).
But you mention private road so may not have the authority of an Order and purely on the whim of the owner of the land (which could be Railway?). Question of whether or not clear signing is important see the following case regarding clamping in private land:
www.tinyurl.com/4zen5
Again if private non payment they will have to take action at County Court to get a payment Order and the bailiffs in to be legal. If it is a one man band running the scam then is it likely he will be bothered to take this action where as a Company may well go the whole hog.
So many questions, sorry so little answers.
DVD
Find out if you can if there is a Traffic Order for the double yellow and inspect it as it may contain a clause exempting stopping for the purpose of dropping/picking up passengers.
LA or as you mention near Railway Station local BiB or BTC may be able to help to ID.
If Order in force then signing has to comply with Traffic Signs and General Directions 2004 as to width of lines and manner in which they end with a T across and upright signs to accompany(otherwise illegal).
But you mention private road so may not have the authority of an Order and purely on the whim of the owner of the land (which could be Railway?). Question of whether or not clear signing is important see the following case regarding clamping in private land:
www.tinyurl.com/4zen5
Again if private non payment they will have to take action at County Court to get a payment Order and the bailiffs in to be legal. If it is a one man band running the scam then is it likely he will be bothered to take this action where as a Company may well go the whole hog.
So many questions, sorry so little answers.
DVD
stackmonkey said:
5th Gear also said that the company had NOT taken anyone to court for failure to pay since the scheme had been running. They reckon the Judge would throw them out.
Yeah, what he said!
that they know of....
We are about to instuct a similar firm to prevent unautorised parking in a private car park as opposed to a private road.
We will issue the tickets £40 if pay now £80 if longer then 2 weeks I think. There are no clamps used. We are putting up signs provided by the company which are clear and easy to read. I would imagin though that they would not be easy to read if you were 'driving trough' an area and then stopped.
The tickets are enforced via the small claims court by the company. They confirm that they have a very high success rate - I presume they would not be in business if they did not.
For this road I described in the original post I would fight it. If there are clear signs up then you may be on a sticky wickett.
Get a photo of the sign, if it is too small to read from inside the car while moving (they fine you if you stop), then I would have thought it is unenforceable. The guy on fifth gear said that the company responsible haven't tried taking people to court to get the fine off them. I think they are just hoping you'll pay without the agro of fighting it.
For the record, I seem to remember the guy saying the land was owned by the prudential.
Phil
For the record, I seem to remember the guy saying the land was owned by the prudential.
Phil
superlightr said:
We are about to instuct a similar firm to prevent unautorised parking in a private car park as opposed to a private road.
We will issue the tickets £40 if pay now £80 if longer then 2 weeks I think.
The tickets are enforced via the small claims court by the company. They confirm that they have a very high success rate - I presume they would not be in business if they did not.
I have never got the logic behind this. Your aim is to prevent unauthorised parking in your private car park, I presume to prevent the inconvenience of not having a parking place available due to it being filled by an unauthorised vehicle. Fair enough.
By putting up clear signage stating the car park is private and not to be used by the public, anyone looking to park is going to be made well aware of the situation.
Anyone who parks in your car park regardless of the signage, thus takes up a parking place and causes the presumed inconvenience to legitimate parkers.
Regardless of whether you issue tickets, fines etc etc take them to court etc etc the prime issue here is that the aim of the private car park i.e. convenient parking, has failed.
Issuing tickets and pursuing payment of fines occurs after the main event.
You are employing a firm who, as you say yourself, are in the BUSINESS of issuing and pursuing payment of fines for unauthorised parking. They therefore rely on people parking in your private car park for their income and for the continuance of their business.
They therefore have no interest in preventing unauthorised parking, just issuing tickets for it.
You solution of employing this firm does not appear to actually address your main problem, that of preventing unauthorised parking in your private car park.
People will only learn, having gotten a ticket, AFTER they have comitted exactly that which you are trying to prevent.
Why not install an automatic barrier?
>> Edited by swilly on Wednesday 27th October 10:08
swilly said:
Your aim is to prevent unauthorised parking in your private car park, I presume to prevent the inconvenience of not having a parking place available due to it being filled by an unauthorised vehicle. Fair enough.
By putting up clear signage stating the car park is private and not to be used by the public, anyone looking to park is going to be made well aware of the situation.
Anyone who parks in your car park regardless of the signage, thus takes up a parking place and causes the presumed inconvenience to legitimate parkers.
Regardless of whether you issue tickets, fines etc etc take them to court etc etc the prime issue here is that the aim of the private car park i.e. convenient parking, has failed.
Issuing tickets and pursuing payment of fines occurs after the main event.
Funnily enough, this (very good) take on the subject mirrors my view on Speed Cameras of every variety. If the "problem" is driving at a speed in excess of an arbitary limit, how does fining you after the event solve the problem? It doesn't. A trafpol stopping you, however, and sending you slowly on your way with a flea in your ear solves the "problem" immediately, but doesn't generate any free income...
By the way it is the Pru that are employing a company to prevent parking on this very short piece of road by the railway. Probably worth fighting, if it has got as far as an article on 5th Gear they must be fairly confident there is a problem.
Although having said that there is a dropping off point no more than 100yards away in the short stay carpark at the end of said road but is is only accessible via stairs in/outside the station so with heavy bagage I can understand picking up in said road.
Rob
Although having said that there is a dropping off point no more than 100yards away in the short stay carpark at the end of said road but is is only accessible via stairs in/outside the station so with heavy bagage I can understand picking up in said road.
Rob
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