Legality of carrying Multitools in public/cars?

[AstonZagato]

There was a bit of debate on the "Your frivolous purchases, stuff you don't need..." thread. about the risk of carrying Leatherman-type multi-tools that have locking blades (many have such things - I know mine does)

I carry one in the car for emergencies. It has a single short blade which locks.


I did a bit of checking and found this:

Govt Website said:

Basic laws on knives

It is illegal to:

• sell a knife of any kind (including cutlery and kitchen knives) to anyone under 18
• carry a knife in public without good reason - unless it’s a knife with a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less, eg a Swiss Army knife
• carry, buy or sell any type of banned knife (the list of banned knives is below)
• use any knife in a threatening way (even a legal knife, such as a Swiss Army knife)

Lock knives (knives with blades that can be locked when unfolded) are not folding knives, and are illegal to carry in public.

Guidance is here:

https://www.gov.uk/find-out-if-i-can-buy-or-carry-...

There is a partial list of acceptable reasons on the same site:

Govt Website said:

Good reasons for carrying a knife
Examples of good reasons to carry a knife in public can include:

• taking knives you use at work to and from work
• you’re taking knives to a gallery or museum to be exhibited
• the knife is going to be used for theatre, film, television, historical reenactment or religious purposes (eg the kirpan some Sikhs carry)

A court will decide if you’ve got a good reason to carry a knife if you’re charged with carrying it illegally.

Should I take it out of the car?

I vaguely need it as I have a shoot box in the back of the car that is cable-tied in position. To get to the spare wheel, I need to cut the cable ties.

[AstonZagato]

My own view was that it did constitute a remote risk.

However, the likelihood of anything happening is very, very, slim. You'd have to have to following happen:

• be stopped;
• the car searched;
• the policeman to find the multitool;
• the policeman to discover the locking blade;
• the policeman to be an twunt about it;
• the policeman to not believe it is for general maintenance but rather held as a weapon;
• the courts to back him.

A long sequence of events which become increasingly unlikely at each step.

It was really the last few that interest me.

• Assuming that a copper found the blade, does he have discretion (let's assume I've not been an ahole to him)?
• How would the courts look at it?

[Richie C]

Looks pretty black and white to me:

Govt Website said:

Lock knives (knives with blades that can be locked when unfolded) are not folding knives, and are illegal to carry in public.

The advice doesn't list any acceptable reasons for carrying a locking blade as there aren't any!

[BluePurpleRed]

I think some people sabotage the locking mechanism on Gerbers and the like and then its just a pen knife with pliers attached really?

I got a gerber Diesel for Xmas.

goo.gl/E8SwUF


Perhaps a defence would be for me to wail "but my Mum bought it for me to help with car trouble ... wahh ... wahh!"

Would that work? :P

I am just going to chance it, but being pulled over in an Austin A35 / Jensen Interceptor / E Type with one tucked away would probably give a decent defense?

Edit: I think I might stop my knife side from locking...

Edited by BluePurpleRed on Friday 3rd January 12:23

[AstonZagato]

Richie C said:

Looks pretty black and white to me:

Govt Website said:

Lock knives (knives with blades that can be locked when unfolded) are not folding knives, and are illegal to carry in public.

The advice doesn't list any acceptable reasons for carrying a locking blade as there aren't any!

No, I read that as a derogation of the specific exemption about carrying folding knifes in public.

So, you can ALWAYS carry a Swiss Army type knife (that is clearly exempted) but something that has a locking blade is judged in the same way that other normal knifes are judged - so one would have then prove one had a good reason to carry such a knife (e.g. the "taking knives you use at work to and from work")

It would seem a bit strange to make all locking knives illegal to carry with NO extenuating circumstances but have acceptable reasons to carry other types of knife! So you could carry a machete as a gardener but not a multitool as a mechanic. That would be odd.

Edited by AstonZagato on Friday 3rd January 12:29

[Mk3Spitfire]

There are two laws/offences that are important here: carrying a bladed/sharply pointed item, and carrying offensive weapon.
Lock knives are per se an offensive weapon. If however you can show you have a reasonable or lawful excuse for carrying said items, you have a defence. But you do run the risk. It's not the clearest bit of legislation but because of today's knife culture, it's a bit if a zero tolerance thing at the moment.

[AstonZagato]

BluePurpleRed said:

I think some people sabotage the locking mechanism on Gerbers and the like and then its just a pen knife with pliers attached really?

Any idea how to do that? I don't need mine to lock.

[Mk3Spitfire]

Short messages because that's all mobile phone allows.
Each situation would be based on its merits. Also, would depend where in the car/on your person the blade was. There is still some room for common sense/discretion on the part of the officer, so therefore, it may well depend which officer you get as to what happens.

[Mk3Spitfire]

AstonZagato said:

Any idea how to do that? I don't need mine to lock.

Just be aware: just because the blade doesn't lock, it doesn't mean you're not committing the offence if possessing bladed article in public. Depends on size of blade as well, but just be aware.

[liner33]

It's illegal to carry many things in public but not in the boot of your car .

Is a locked boot a "public place"? I don't believe so and I don't worry about carrying a multi tool, knife, hammer or screwdriver in my car

[AstonZagato]

Mk3Spitfire said:

Lock knives are per se an offensive weapon.

I think that may be a little bit strong - is there is a presumption that they are alway offensive? I'd assumed there is an assumption that they could be potentially be used as an offensive weapon. A baseball bat would be in the same quandry - if you have good reason to be carrying one (on your way to a baseball game), it is sports equipment: if not it is an offensive weapon.

Mk3Spitfire said:

it's a bit if a zero tolerance thing at the moment.

This is mainly my worry. Most coppers would ignore a multi-tool tucked in the glove compartment. However, is there no discretion to let it slip as knife crime stats are so high profile?

Edited by AstonZagato on Friday 3rd January 12:40

[Mk3Spitfire]

The lock knives/off weap per se comment was one I questioned myself, and have been informed that it is considered so. But yes, there is discretion available to the officer.
A baseball bat CAN be a off weap, and would be down to the suspect to show that he had reasonable/lawful excuse for its possession.

[Richie C]

AstonZagato said:

No, I read that as a derogation of the specific exemption about carrying folding knifes in public.

So, you can ALWAYS carry a Swiss Army type knife but something that has a locking blade is judged in the same way that normal knifes are judged - so one would have then prove one had a good reason to carry such a knife (e.g. the "taking knives you use at work to and from work")

It would seem a bit strange to make all locking knives illegal to carry with NO extenuating circumstances but have acceptable reasons to carry other types of knife! So you could carry a machete as a gardener but not a multitool as a mechanic. That would be odd.

Edited by AstonZagato on Friday 3rd January 12:27

That may well be the case but I'd argue you can't come to that conclusion solely from the advice on that web page.

Assuming you are correct, and a lock knife is treated just as a fixed blade knife over 3 inches, how confident are you in your "good reason"?

[Super Slo Mo]

I don't think multi-tools are considered a huge risk. I've taken them through mag and bag security checks at some of the biggest events in the country without so much as an eyebrow being raised. That included something at Westminster Abbey when the Queen was visiting, and into several of the Olympic venues.

Sometimes I've been asked if it's a 'tool of the trade', but usually it's ignored.

I routinely have one on my person when I'm working, and quite often when travelling to or from work venues. However, I guess I have a legitimate reason to have one, notwithstanding the fact that it's far and away the most useful thing I own.

[TheJimi]

The law, as in many cases, is an ass.

If someone is inclined to carry a knife for the purposes of a weapon, they're going to do so regardless of the legalities.

[DoubleSix]

AstonZagato said:

This is mainly my worry. Most coppers would ignore a multi-tool tucked in the glove compartment. However, is there no discretion to let it slip as knife crime stats are so high profile?

Edited by AstonZagato on Friday 3rd January 12:40

I don't carry mine in the car. I'm not especially worried about such things it's just it only takes one twunt of a copper to make things a bit awkward. I'd rather not give them the excuse to inconveinience me or indeed confiscate my expensive multi-tool.

[Mk3Spitfire]

DoubleSix said:

I don't carry mine in the car. I'm not especially worried about such things it's just it only takes one twunt of a copper to make things a bit awkward. I'd rather not give them the excuse to inconveinience me or indeed confiscate my expensive multi-tool.

If you need it for your job, and can evidence that at the road side, a multi tool is UNLIKELY to get you in trouble. However, it may be a different outcome if the member of the public is a "twunt" and causes the officer concerns that maybe the knife is there for more than just stripping wire.

[DoubleSix]

Mk3Spitfire said:

DoubleSix said:

I don't carry mine in the car. I'm not especially worried about such things it's just it only takes one twunt of a copper to make things a bit awkward. I'd rather not give them the excuse to inconveinience me or indeed confiscate my expensive multi-tool.

If you need it for your job, and can evidence that at the road side, a multi tool is UNLIKELY to get you in trouble. However, it may be a different outcome if the member of the public is a "twunt" and causes the officer concerns that maybe the knife is there for more than just stripping wire.

Indeed. But I don't need it for job. I would however like to chuck it in the glove box and forget about it for adhoc use when camping or mountain biking.

But no I can't do that, I have to load it with all the other stuff on those specific trips only as they would justify my carrying it. Like much to do with law, it's tedious but necessary given the wholly nature of the word 'unlikely'.

[Mk3Spitfire]

DoubleSix said:

Indeed. But I don't need it for job. I would however like to chuck it in the glove box and forget about it for adhoc use when camping or mountain biking.

But no I can't do that, I have to load it with all the other stuff on those specific trips only as they would justify my carrying it. Like much to do with law, it's tedious but necessary given the wholly nature of the word 'unlikely'.

It may be tedious but it is there for a reason. I can only assume that you are not a twunt yourself, and so although I would never encourage or condone it, I cant see you ever finding yourself in a police cell for having a multi tool stuffed in the back of your glove box for emergencies. You would have to come across a complete jobsworth, and even then the chances of it getting further than the custody Sgt are unlikely. It is an unfortunate state of affairs, but this is probably one situation where, if it were to happen to you, and rightly or wrongly, the attitude test may well play a big part.

[talksthetorque]

Find another(unlockable) way of securing the box?