Guide to court procedure please?
Discussion
I'm due to appear in court in Jan charged with failing to provide the name of the driver (sect 172). In brief my wife & I shared driving on a family day out - swapping whenver we stopped. We didn't see a camera of a flash or any indication that we should make a note an incident happened. The time given for the offence (17:24) is around the time we swapped for tea. (we'd just left the railway museum at around 5 past to quarter past - wife ate her sandwiches in 15-20 minutes, we swapped & I ate mine). We asked for the photos but they were useless - the only person visible is my son in the rear - can't see the front seats at all or the right rear where we may have sat to feed the toddler.
I spoke to a lawyer who advised me I had a very good case but wanted £1000 to defend me in court (of which I could get up to £750 back) or £400 to prepare a case (of which I'd get nothing back. (some justice!!!))
He said it would involve taking and submitting statements, writing to the CPS to see if they'd drop it etc.
I know the facts of the case, and the arguments, all I need is to know the required procedures etc.
Do I need to submit all the evidence and statements beforehand?
If so (or if it helps my case) how do I do that, are there special forms? do they need to be witnessed etc?
can my wife submit a statement rather than attend? We have a toddler to see to. ALso my wife is rather suggestible - putty in a salesman's hand - so in the witnes stand a half decent (or indecent) lawer would have her saying I was driving, was too drunk to see the camera or remember anything and committed a couple of murders along the way :-)
Do I have to question myself?
where can I get a straightforwad guide to procedure - surely justice requires that a defendant be given fair acceess to information about procedure.
I spoke to a lawyer who advised me I had a very good case but wanted £1000 to defend me in court (of which I could get up to £750 back) or £400 to prepare a case (of which I'd get nothing back. (some justice!!!))
He said it would involve taking and submitting statements, writing to the CPS to see if they'd drop it etc.
I know the facts of the case, and the arguments, all I need is to know the required procedures etc.
Do I need to submit all the evidence and statements beforehand?
If so (or if it helps my case) how do I do that, are there special forms? do they need to be witnessed etc?
can my wife submit a statement rather than attend? We have a toddler to see to. ALso my wife is rather suggestible - putty in a salesman's hand - so in the witnes stand a half decent (or indecent) lawer would have her saying I was driving, was too drunk to see the camera or remember anything and committed a couple of murders along the way :-)
Do I have to question myself?
where can I get a straightforwad guide to procedure - surely justice requires that a defendant be given fair acceess to information about procedure.
In a nutshell Brian:
You will be called in front of the Bench (side actually in defendants box).
Clerk confirms your personal details, reads charge, takes your plea (in this case I presume Not Guilty)and may query any representation.
CPS Solicitor will outlined the case against you and present the evidence verbal/documentary.
You should be given the opportunity to question what has been said.
You should be then given the opportunity to state your defence. This can be on oath which gives the CPS Solicitor the right to cross examination or you can make a statement from the floor of the Court not on oath and cannot be cross examined on this.Obviously the first carries more weight that the later.
Clerk will advise Mags on any problems re law, punishment etc and they then consider and give their verdict.
You may consider going to the Court on a day other than you appearence to sus out just how they work. Also at this time seek out the Duty Court Solicitor who gives free advice and may even on the day be your mouthpiece.
Any of you with time on your hands one day consider doing this. It is an education.
DVD
You will be called in front of the Bench (side actually in defendants box).
Clerk confirms your personal details, reads charge, takes your plea (in this case I presume Not Guilty)and may query any representation.
CPS Solicitor will outlined the case against you and present the evidence verbal/documentary.
You should be given the opportunity to question what has been said.
You should be then given the opportunity to state your defence. This can be on oath which gives the CPS Solicitor the right to cross examination or you can make a statement from the floor of the Court not on oath and cannot be cross examined on this.Obviously the first carries more weight that the later.
Clerk will advise Mags on any problems re law, punishment etc and they then consider and give their verdict.
You may consider going to the Court on a day other than you appearence to sus out just how they work. Also at this time seek out the Duty Court Solicitor who gives free advice and may even on the day be your mouthpiece.
Any of you with time on your hands one day consider doing this. It is an education.
DVD
Thankyou - very helpful advice!
could I ask another question?
they have included in thier evidence pack a handwritten note that says:
E.R.Q.S search
B906/04/0071 - may 2004
D507/03/0065 - Oct 2003
The first appears to be my case number but I don't know what the second is.
I've never had anything from them before but are they trying to allude to some previous allegation of which I'm unaware? hint at a previous offence which never came to court & as far as I'm aware never even reached the NIP stage unless two copies were lost in the post?
Are they allowed to do this?
They also lost a letter of mine & I had to supply a second copy. In the evidence pack they are claiming that I sent them an empty envelope (marked with my name and address & recorded delivery - like how would that help me?). Is this relevant as I supplied another copy & the main thrust of the case is that I have shown due diligence in attempting to identify the driver.
I think they are trying to defame my character with unproven slurs. Should I point this out? or should I go with answers prepared & prepared to claim they are 'playing dirty' if that is what this stuff is all about? - or is it better to act confused and state that it's not relevant, the main point is that Ihave shown due diligence etc?
Am I able to contact CPS and find out what all thismeans and what they intend to do with it on the day?
could I ask another question?
they have included in thier evidence pack a handwritten note that says:
E.R.Q.S search
B906/04/0071 - may 2004
D507/03/0065 - Oct 2003
The first appears to be my case number but I don't know what the second is.
I've never had anything from them before but are they trying to allude to some previous allegation of which I'm unaware? hint at a previous offence which never came to court & as far as I'm aware never even reached the NIP stage unless two copies were lost in the post?
Are they allowed to do this?
They also lost a letter of mine & I had to supply a second copy. In the evidence pack they are claiming that I sent them an empty envelope (marked with my name and address & recorded delivery - like how would that help me?). Is this relevant as I supplied another copy & the main thrust of the case is that I have shown due diligence in attempting to identify the driver.
I think they are trying to defame my character with unproven slurs. Should I point this out? or should I go with answers prepared & prepared to claim they are 'playing dirty' if that is what this stuff is all about? - or is it better to act confused and state that it's not relevant, the main point is that Ihave shown due diligence etc?
Am I able to contact CPS and find out what all thismeans and what they intend to do with it on the day?
This is the Christine Hamilton defence. If the court is satisfied that you and your wife genuinely can't say who was driving at the time then you should be OK. After all onus is on the prosecution to prove their case - essentially that you are refusing to ID the driver whilst knowing who it is - beyond a reasonable doubt.
Your wife will have to give evidence IMO. All she has to do is tell the truth. I can't eblieve that she is so suggestible that she's incapable of doing that.
Your wife will have to give evidence IMO. All she has to do is tell the truth. I can't eblieve that she is so suggestible that she's incapable of doing that.
Don't worry when you get to court the prosecution will be expecting you to plead guilty, when you don't they will adjourn, set a date to discuss who to call as witnesses, adjourn because they haven't read the file, set another date, adjourn because once again they haven't read the file, set another date, adjourn because the prosecutor is off ill, set another date and so on. Do I sound cheesed off? Yes because it's happening to my son at the moment, he's missed endless mornings from uni and because he was quoted £2000 for a solictor is representing himself.Presumably thats why solicitors cost so much they have to keep going to court for nothing.
Oaky makes a valid point that this initial hearing may well be a tester to see what your plea is and on learning a Not Guilty may well then adjourn. There should be some information in the papers about pleading.
Cannot help with the numbers. Consider contacting Mags Clerks Office/CPS to find out what this means and at same time find out whether they will go ahead on the date on a NG plea, if not do you have to attend?.
In the meantime commit S 172 RTA 88 to memory and analyse the points that are required for CPS to prove the offence. If they don't do this at Court it is to your favour.Also know what it says about your defence under Sub Section 4. Under disclosure rules you are entitled to CPS's evidence if you are pleading NG before Court date.
The time to disprove any falsehoods that you think CPS are trying will be at Court.
If you have time try and arrange a free session with CAB Solititor and go through your bits and pieces with him for an opinion.
DVD
Cannot help with the numbers. Consider contacting Mags Clerks Office/CPS to find out what this means and at same time find out whether they will go ahead on the date on a NG plea, if not do you have to attend?.
In the meantime commit S 172 RTA 88 to memory and analyse the points that are required for CPS to prove the offence. If they don't do this at Court it is to your favour.Also know what it says about your defence under Sub Section 4. Under disclosure rules you are entitled to CPS's evidence if you are pleading NG before Court date.
The time to disprove any falsehoods that you think CPS are trying will be at Court.
If you have time try and arrange a free session with CAB Solititor and go through your bits and pieces with him for an opinion.
DVD
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