Likelihood of ban ?
Discussion
Im well aware Ill likely be grilled for my own stupidity but here goes,
Ive recently (within 6 months) obtain 9 points for using a mobile phone. Today I received another charge for going through a red light which i have no recollection of at the minute.
No excuses for the mobile charges, the business was growing and the phone was going off the hook, at the time I had no bluetooth headset. Red light has definately been accidental, not that that matters.
So, Assuming the red light is correct Im looking at a potential ban.
Here is my position, Im curious if anyone else has managed to avoid a ban in similar circumstances.
I run my own electrical contracting business with 3/4 employees. This obviously involves a lot of driving often out of hours, pricing jobs for example.
The job is already stressful with managing the staff etc and me not driving would be too much to handle.
If I get a ban its likely the business will struggle, I won't be able to continue to employ my staff as Ill be bringing in less work and things are already tight etc etc. Public transport is definately not an option with tools etc and various locations on a daily basis.
Potentially could cause financial trouble, as Ill not be able to work.
Any thoughts before I speak to my solicitors ?
Ive recently (within 6 months) obtain 9 points for using a mobile phone. Today I received another charge for going through a red light which i have no recollection of at the minute.
No excuses for the mobile charges, the business was growing and the phone was going off the hook, at the time I had no bluetooth headset. Red light has definately been accidental, not that that matters.
So, Assuming the red light is correct Im looking at a potential ban.
Here is my position, Im curious if anyone else has managed to avoid a ban in similar circumstances.
I run my own electrical contracting business with 3/4 employees. This obviously involves a lot of driving often out of hours, pricing jobs for example.
The job is already stressful with managing the staff etc and me not driving would be too much to handle.
If I get a ban its likely the business will struggle, I won't be able to continue to employ my staff as Ill be bringing in less work and things are already tight etc etc. Public transport is definately not an option with tools etc and various locations on a daily basis.
Potentially could cause financial trouble, as Ill not be able to work.
Any thoughts before I speak to my solicitors ?
The issue I have is that to keep the business running I'm working from 7am till around 6pm. After the physical graft is done I'm pricing 2-4 jobs in the evenings between 6-9pm, this is almost every day/evening..employing a full time driver to work those hours is not something the company can afford.
Im hoping we can play the "young man trying hard to make a go at the business" card, but not sure thats going to hold up!
Im hoping we can play the "young man trying hard to make a go at the business" card, but not sure thats going to hold up!
Edited by Jamster123 on Thursday 13th February 21:33
9 points for a mobile phone? Was that one offence or more? (thought that it was normally 3 points).
If you've clocked up 4 separate offences it does give the impression that you haven't learned from your mistakes. That having been said I understand what it is to rack up points quickly (went from 0-9 in 6 months in the early 90's when I was young and mostly dumb). I then spent 3 years "Driving Miss Daisy" to avoid losing my licence (and job!)
IANAL (there are a few on here), but hardship (of others) appears sometimes to be accepted as a defence and a ban avoided, but then you really will have to watch yourself for a couple of years!
Whetever happens I wish you luck!
If you've clocked up 4 separate offences it does give the impression that you haven't learned from your mistakes. That having been said I understand what it is to rack up points quickly (went from 0-9 in 6 months in the early 90's when I was young and mostly dumb). I then spent 3 years "Driving Miss Daisy" to avoid losing my licence (and job!)
IANAL (there are a few on here), but hardship (of others) appears sometimes to be accepted as a defence and a ban avoided, but then you really will have to watch yourself for a couple of years!
Whetever happens I wish you luck!
sunbeam alpine said:
9 points for a mobile phone? Was that one offence or more? (thought that it was normally 3 points).
If you've clocked up 4 separate offences it does give the impression that you haven't learned from your mistakes. That having been said I understand what it is to rack up points quickly (went from 0-9 in 6 months in the early 90's when I was young and mostly dumb). I then spent 3 years "Driving Miss Daisy" to avoid losing my licence (and job!)
IANAL (there are a few on here), but hardship (of others) appears sometimes to be accepted as a defence and a ban avoided, but then you really will have to watch yourself for a couple of years!
Whetever happens I wish you luck!
Yes three separate offences for phone in the space of a few months..If you've clocked up 4 separate offences it does give the impression that you haven't learned from your mistakes. That having been said I understand what it is to rack up points quickly (went from 0-9 in 6 months in the early 90's when I was young and mostly dumb). I then spent 3 years "Driving Miss Daisy" to avoid losing my licence (and job!)
IANAL (there are a few on here), but hardship (of others) appears sometimes to be accepted as a defence and a ban avoided, but then you really will have to watch yourself for a couple of years!
Whetever happens I wish you luck!
Whats really gutting is my license had previously had 9 points from younger days...they had only cleared when a few months later this happened. Yes I know how stupid I am !
12 points in 3 years could get you a 6 month totting-up ban (not up to a year as someone else mentioned).
Your only hope of avoiding this is by pleading "special needs" - basically how hard a ban would hit other people rather than you. (A ban is supposed to punish the person who committed the offences, rather than others who might be affected). Your angle of affecting employees is probably the best bet that you have. On the other hand, the magistrates will probably view 3 mobile phone offences in a short space of time as being totally avoidable as a bluetooth headset isn't expensive so they might think that you deliberately think that you are above the law.
If you appear at court yourself suited and booted and appear contrite and give the impression that you have learned from the prospect of being banned and the effect that this will have on your business (ie. employees) then you might be better saving the solicitor's cost for the (hefty) fine that you will get. If you're not so confident it could be worth using a solicitor.
Your only hope of avoiding this is by pleading "special needs" - basically how hard a ban would hit other people rather than you. (A ban is supposed to punish the person who committed the offences, rather than others who might be affected). Your angle of affecting employees is probably the best bet that you have. On the other hand, the magistrates will probably view 3 mobile phone offences in a short space of time as being totally avoidable as a bluetooth headset isn't expensive so they might think that you deliberately think that you are above the law.
If you appear at court yourself suited and booted and appear contrite and give the impression that you have learned from the prospect of being banned and the effect that this will have on your business (ie. employees) then you might be better saving the solicitor's cost for the (hefty) fine that you will get. If you're not so confident it could be worth using a solicitor.
Jamster123 said:
sunbeam alpine said:
9 points for a mobile phone? Was that one offence or more? (thought that it was normally 3 points).
If you've clocked up 4 separate offences it does give the impression that you haven't learned from your mistakes. That having been said I understand what it is to rack up points quickly (went from 0-9 in 6 months in the early 90's when I was young and mostly dumb). I then spent 3 years "Driving Miss Daisy" to avoid losing my licence (and job!)
IANAL (there are a few on here), but hardship (of others) appears sometimes to be accepted as a defence and a ban avoided, but then you really will have to watch yourself for a couple of years!
Whetever happens I wish you luck!
Yes three separate offences for phone in the space of a few months..If you've clocked up 4 separate offences it does give the impression that you haven't learned from your mistakes. That having been said I understand what it is to rack up points quickly (went from 0-9 in 6 months in the early 90's when I was young and mostly dumb). I then spent 3 years "Driving Miss Daisy" to avoid losing my licence (and job!)
IANAL (there are a few on here), but hardship (of others) appears sometimes to be accepted as a defence and a ban avoided, but then you really will have to watch yourself for a couple of years!
Whetever happens I wish you luck!
Whats really gutting is my license had previously had 9 points from younger days...they had only cleared when a few months later this happened. Yes I know how stupid I am !
ks, but my opinion isn't popular on here.When you escape a ban/get your licence back, fit a parrot kit like I have, You're an electrician, I'm an electronics eng, it only took me an hour to fit, I think it cost about £100.
I have my phone mounted in the boot of the car/back of my van, and I take and make as many calls as I want.
I have seen a few licences with 18 points.
Best bet, dress smart, appear remorseful, explain in detail what it would mean to you and others if you were banned, and show you're willing to eat some humble pie.
You might get lucky and just get 11 points, or they might give you the 12 and allow you to keep your licence.
And for christ sake, use your hands free from now on!!
Good luck.
Best bet, dress smart, appear remorseful, explain in detail what it would mean to you and others if you were banned, and show you're willing to eat some humble pie.
You might get lucky and just get 11 points, or they might give you the 12 and allow you to keep your licence.
And for christ sake, use your hands free from now on!!
Good luck.
Jamster123 said:
Yes, New van has handsfree !
Would appearing at court myself be a good option ? Im sure I could say a few bits and plead my case pretty well but may be a little nervous in that situation.
I would, as I don't have enough spare cash for a solly sitter.Would appearing at court myself be a good option ? Im sure I could say a few bits and plead my case pretty well but may be a little nervous in that situation.
If you do get banned it shouldn't be for a year I don't think, but others will be able to advise you, I think agtlaw is the expert on motoring stuff.
Couldn't you get one of the lads to drive you around in the evening, maybe taking it in turns ?
Jamster123 said:
Yes, New van has handsfree !
Would appearing at court myself be a good option ? Im sure I could say a few bits and plead my case pretty well but may be a little nervous in that situation.
Hmmmm, think I read too fast and didn't take it all in.Would appearing at court myself be a good option ? Im sure I could say a few bits and plead my case pretty well but may be a little nervous in that situation.
You may not have a choice re court. I'm confused as to how many live points you have, but if you do find yourself with a court summons then good luck.
I still hate going to court even after doing it a fair few times.
Magistrates are, like police, human too though. Take your time, show respect, and hope for the best!
Jamster123 said:
Would appearing at court myself be a good option ? Im sure I could say a few bits and plead my case pretty well but may be a little nervous in that situation.
You should definitely turn up in person. What I didn't say in my earlier post was that my 3rd offence should have been a ban or at least 6 points (107 on motorway). I turned up in a suit, with a letter from my boss saying that I'd lose my job (and with my mum to drive me home - was expecting the worst!). Got 3 points and a £150 fine - a lot of money at the time.I recently drove a mate to court as he was also expecting a ban. The mag actually said it was refreshing to see someone so nervous and respectful. (In fairness the previous cases were chav scum repeat offenders, one of whom was actually dragged out swearing at the bench!)
"Special reasons". Bear in mind you won't be able to use the same exceptional hardship reasons twice so if you do end up on 12 points and not disqualified, so being blunt you won't be able to chance your luck as you had previously been with the mobile offences.
Irrespective of how "soft" you think the offence is, getting caught once is bad luck, twice is a serious wake up call to always use a hands free kit, three times is just taking the piss.
Sorry if that sounds sanctimonious but just stressing that if your attitude towards this stuff is that "what are the chances I'll get caught" you won't have that luxury if your hardship is accepted.
Irrespective of how "soft" you think the offence is, getting caught once is bad luck, twice is a serious wake up call to always use a hands free kit, three times is just taking the piss.
Sorry if that sounds sanctimonious but just stressing that if your attitude towards this stuff is that "what are the chances I'll get caught" you won't have that luxury if your hardship is accepted.
Edited by Durzel on Thursday 13th February 22:30
Durzel said:
Bear in mind you won't be able to use the same exceptional hardship reasons twice so if you do end up on 12 points and not disqualified, so being blunt you won't be able to chance your luck as you had previously been with the mobile offences.
Irrespective of how "soft" you think the offence is, getting caught once is bad luck, twice is a serious wake up call to always use a hands free kit, three times is just taking the piss.
Sorry if that sounds sanctimonious but just stressing that if your attitude towards this stuff is that "what are the chances I'll get caught" you won't have that luxury if your hardship is accepted.
Good advice. As others have said you do stand a chance if you employ a brief and appear contrite and provide evidence that your business will fail unless you can keep driving then you do have a chance. I have seen just this situation with several friends and they did stay driving. But this defence has a one time use. On a practical note getting that many offences that quickly is unwise at best and a radical review of your approach to driving is needed. Good luck to you.Irrespective of how "soft" you think the offence is, getting caught once is bad luck, twice is a serious wake up call to always use a hands free kit, three times is just taking the piss.
Sorry if that sounds sanctimonious but just stressing that if your attitude towards this stuff is that "what are the chances I'll get caught" you won't have that luxury if your hardship is accepted.
Edited by Durzel on Thursday 13th February 22:30
sorry to be harsh cause I think the mobile ban is a waste of time but:
IF I was caught once and my business depended on me being able to both drive and use a mobile the first thing I would have done is get a hands free set. Getting done a second time is reckless and getting done a third time
shows blatant disregard for road laws, and for other motorists. Running a red light just reinforces that opinion.
IF you were a council house tenant who played music too loud three times ,were warned twice about being evicted, and carried on regardless the overwhelming opinion would be that you should be evicted. I see no difference.
If your business means that much you should have considered that beforehand. I think you should man up and take whatever the court decides is the right punishment, hire a driver for the length of your ban. As for your staff, it would not be the court taking their work away, it is the consequences of your actions.
IF I was caught once and my business depended on me being able to both drive and use a mobile the first thing I would have done is get a hands free set. Getting done a second time is reckless and getting done a third time
shows blatant disregard for road laws, and for other motorists. Running a red light just reinforces that opinion.
IF you were a council house tenant who played music too loud three times ,were warned twice about being evicted, and carried on regardless the overwhelming opinion would be that you should be evicted. I see no difference.
If your business means that much you should have considered that beforehand. I think you should man up and take whatever the court decides is the right punishment, hire a driver for the length of your ban. As for your staff, it would not be the court taking their work away, it is the consequences of your actions.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff