Independant witness??????
Discussion
I had an accident back in May while riding my motorcycle.
To sum the story up, the car driver in front of me turned left without indicating and as the road curves to the right, I turned left indicating (straight ahead). At this point, the car in front of me decided to turn into the pub (left) and literally drove into my path. (Hard to describe but I still think it was his fault for not indicating).
Now there were no witnesses to this accident however all the 3rd party's mates were in the pub. When they came out they were abusive towards me and on several occaisions I was physically threatened.
The 3rd party is now stating there was a witness but I've just found out the "supposed" witness is one of his mates!!!! The reason I know this is because I went to primary school with them all. (hum)
Does this count as an independant witness and would it stand up in court as that's where I'm heading for this claim. (Aside from the fact that he is lying through his teeth as there were no witnesses!!!!!)
Corrections due to being half asleep on a typical Monday morning.....
>>> Edited by beanbag on Monday 22 November 13:16
To sum the story up, the car driver in front of me turned left without indicating and as the road curves to the right, I turned left indicating (straight ahead). At this point, the car in front of me decided to turn into the pub (left) and literally drove into my path. (Hard to describe but I still think it was his fault for not indicating).
Now there were no witnesses to this accident however all the 3rd party's mates were in the pub. When they came out they were abusive towards me and on several occaisions I was physically threatened.
The 3rd party is now stating there was a witness but I've just found out the "supposed" witness is one of his mates!!!! The reason I know this is because I went to primary school with them all. (hum)
Does this count as an independant witness and would it stand up in court as that's where I'm heading for this claim. (Aside from the fact that he is lying through his teeth as there were no witnesses!!!!!)
Corrections due to being half asleep on a typical Monday morning.....
>>> Edited by beanbag on Monday 22 November 13:16
beanbag said:
The 3rd party is now stating there was a witness but I've just found out the "supposed" witness is one of his mates!!!!
Does this count as an independant witness and would it stand up in court as that's where I'm heading for this claim. (Aside from the fact that he is lying through his teeth as there were no witnesses!!!!!)
I think it would be viewed mit suspicion...und it is one thing to defraud the insurance company and another to lie to courts. Witness may not go through with it if/when it gets to court as common sense may tell him that no so-called mate ist worth damaging one's own reputation for - forever.
WildCat said:
The 3rd party is now stating there was a witness but I've just found out the "supposed" witness is one of his mates!!!!
Does this count as an independant witness and would it stand up in court as that's where I'm heading for this claim. (Aside from the fact that he is lying through his teeth as there were no witnesses!!!!!)
I think it would be viewed mit suspicion...und it is one thing to defraud the insurance company and another to lie to courts. Witness may not go through with it if/when it gets to court as common sense may tell him that no so-called mate ist worth damaging one's own reputation for - forever.
or even going to prison for!
not sure the lack of an indicator will help you though, especially on a left turn.
Your not going to want to hear this mate but the idicators are for indication use only.
I was passenger in a car when sat at a junction waiting to turn right, the car coming down the road from the right had her indicator on to turn to her left.
She didnt, my mate checked with a glance, he pulled out presuming she was turning in and she didnt. Had a little bump, nothing serious.
Anyway, the old neck hurting card was played and the police were called, he told them what she was doing and that was basicly what my mate was told.
If you treat all other road users as idiots, driving round pre-empting other drivers reactions, however stupid they may be, you cant go wrong.
As for the witnesses, if they were sat in the pub, get your lawyer to put over the fact that intoxicationalcahol doesnt stand you in good stead to be a witness, then play the "there all mates" card.
The very best of luck and i hope it all goes your way
Jon
I was passenger in a car when sat at a junction waiting to turn right, the car coming down the road from the right had her indicator on to turn to her left.
She didnt, my mate checked with a glance, he pulled out presuming she was turning in and she didnt. Had a little bump, nothing serious.
Anyway, the old neck hurting card was played and the police were called, he told them what she was doing and that was basicly what my mate was told.
If you treat all other road users as idiots, driving round pre-empting other drivers reactions, however stupid they may be, you cant go wrong.
As for the witnesses, if they were sat in the pub, get your lawyer to put over the fact that intoxicationalcahol doesnt stand you in good stead to be a witness, then play the "there all mates" card.
The very best of luck and i hope it all goes your way
Jon
m-five said:
If he was in front of you, he turned left, and you turned left - how did you hit him?
With no witnesses to support your account then there's nothing to prove that he didn't indicate, and as such the argument will be that you were too close to stop or take avoiding action!
As I said it's hard to explain. I will post some photos soon to make it clearer.
To go straight ahead, your actually turning right around a corner. To go left your going straight ahead.
I was going left so straight ahead and as he didn't indicate, I thought he was following the road to the right. He began to do and swung around to the left to turn into a pub on the corner without indicated. Please excuse the crude drawing but it's the best I can do for now......
As I said, it's not very clear but it appeared the car was following the road and then swung round to turn into the pub - without indicating.
I was going straight ahead and I was indicated left but the car turned into me.
As a a result, I tried to take avoiding action but hit the car on the left hand side. I even landed on my feet as I was travelling quite slowly but unforunately dropped the bike.
As I said before, there were no witnesses so it's his word against mine unless the court decides to accept his "independant" witness.
Crazy to think that the only reason I was on my bike was to buy a tub of ice-cream from Tesco's. Probably the worlds most expensive tub methinks.
>> Edited by beanbag on Monday 22 November 15:49
I think m-five ist correct. Tis unfortunate... perhaps you should have anticipated that if car driver suddenly slowed ... there was likelihood that he or she would have gone for "missed turn".
But as for the witness... they would look for any inconsistencies in statements..... und check them und investigate for collusion...
I would keep in touch with your insurers and ask them to keep you au fait with their investigation just the same.
But as for the witness... they would look for any inconsistencies in statements..... und check them und investigate for collusion...
I would keep in touch with your insurers and ask them to keep you au fait with their investigation just the same.
I'm sorry to hear about your problem Nicholas, but maybe you were a bit too trusting, a bit too far into where the action was, maybe too far forward too soon. Could it be a reminder to apply a slightly more defensive technique?
Anyhow I hope all goes well for you.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Anyhow I hope all goes well for you.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I wouldn't think your insurance company would take it to court - or are you doing this. I'd imagine the insurance will rule in his favor, witnesses or not.
As said above, a more defensive driving/riding style is the order of the day. Assume everyone on the road is out to kill you and you won't go far wrong - most seem to be.
Sorry for the negative answer but that's how I see it.
Something else to bare in mind when presuming what people are going to do. I all to often see people who Indicate left but make a swing to the right before turning left - I'd guess that's what this guy did (without indicating though) - It's driving at its wankest but people do it - Must be all thoughs HGV Nissan Micras
It also amazes me how many people don't wait for someone turning left and overtake whilst passing the junction. Not only can't they be seen by any cars in the junction you can guarantee the guy turning will give it the old scandavian.
>> Edited by woodytvr on Tuesday 23 November 11:48
As said above, a more defensive driving/riding style is the order of the day. Assume everyone on the road is out to kill you and you won't go far wrong - most seem to be.
Sorry for the negative answer but that's how I see it.
Something else to bare in mind when presuming what people are going to do. I all to often see people who Indicate left but make a swing to the right before turning left - I'd guess that's what this guy did (without indicating though) - It's driving at its wankest but people do it - Must be all thoughs HGV Nissan Micras
It also amazes me how many people don't wait for someone turning left and overtake whilst passing the junction. Not only can't they be seen by any cars in the junction you can guarantee the guy turning will give it the old scandavian.
>> Edited by woodytvr on Tuesday 23 November 11:48
Im in a similar situation - I overtook a car in a perfectly legal place, she then turned right without indicating or looking and punted me into someones driveway. Another biker stopped and gave me his details and has since given a witness statement. The car driver is now stating that there were no witnesses and saying it must be a mate of mine making it up!! She must have seen the bloke help me pick up my bike, yet is still claiming there was noone there!
Mad Dave said:
Im in a similar situation - I overtook a car in a perfectly legal place, she then turned right without indicating or looking and punted me into someones driveway. Another biker stopped and gave me his details and has since given a witness statement. The car driver is now stating that there were no witnesses and saying it must be a mate of mine making it up!! She must have seen the bloke help me pick up my bike, yet is still claiming there was noone there!
What was she turning into?
gone said:
You probably don't want to hear this.
If I had attended this collision and someone needed reporting for 'due care', it would have most definately been you and maybe the other driver as well!
My brother was in a similar situation, slowed down to make a right turn, was a bit late on the indicator, and the car behind overtook him. Of course this was as he turned right so there was quite a bit of damamge to both cars.
This went a long way with the insurers arguing and as soon as my brother was granted legal aid (unemployed) the other side caved in and he got his damages paid for etc.
Basically the bottom line was you don't overtake at a junction.. especially when the car in front is showing many of the characteristics of someone using the junction (position, speed etc) but doesn't necessarily use the indicator.
A pity on all sides all the same of course.
Cheers
Matt
The insurance company has ruled it in my favour so far. This is why I am going to court over the matter. I still believe it was his fault due to the way he swung around to the left.
As I said before, he began following the road and then swung around (possibly so he could do the corner quicker), and I held a constant speed (about 15-20), going straight ahead but indicated left as you should.
My insurance company is refusing to make payment and so is the 3rd parties hence the claims court (which he in fact initiated).
I think by the looks of things, it'll go 50:50, but as I said previously, I'll be happy with that as it won't affect my NCB and it'll pay for most of the damages so long as I repair them myself and not through a dealer.
As I said before, he began following the road and then swung around (possibly so he could do the corner quicker), and I held a constant speed (about 15-20), going straight ahead but indicated left as you should.
My insurance company is refusing to make payment and so is the 3rd parties hence the claims court (which he in fact initiated).
I think by the looks of things, it'll go 50:50, but as I said previously, I'll be happy with that as it won't affect my NCB and it'll pay for most of the damages so long as I repair them myself and not through a dealer.
M@H said:
Basically the bottom line was you don't overtake at a junction.. especially when the car in front is showing many of the characteristics of someone using the junction (position, speed etc) but doesn't necessarily use the indicator.
I would also like to point out there was no overtaking involved. You simply can't do it on the junction as that would have got me killed!!!!
The front right of my bike hit the left hand side of his car showing that he turned into me. There was not a scratch on the back of the car.
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