Statement of Income and Outgoings

[BlackStuff]

Just looking at this form as kindly provided by the Magistrates court in readiness for my forthcoming star appearance. A couple of points come to mind:

Firstly, the whole thing seems to form something of an interesting social commentary. There are boxes on the form in which to fill in your Mortgage, Council Tax, Food etc, which seems fair enough, but there are also some more for things like...

Sky/Video etc
Lottery/Entertainment
Drinking
Smoking

The natural impression I get is that the more outgoings you have the lower the fine will be, but this seems would also suggest that one way to get a lower fine is to spend all your dosh on lottery tickets, meanwhile a prudent person who saves some of their income will get fined more (there isn't a box to put in how much you save every month).

Or is it a trick to get people to own up to how they waste their money, and the fine is in truth set by the amounts you put in the "naughty" boxes like Drinking and Smoking etc? :LOL:

Anyway, my question is this: I have just truthfully pencilled in my numbers, based on my average income and expenditure over the last twelve months, and the outgoings are about £50 a week more than my income - this probably explains why I have an overdraft! However, if I put in these honest figures will the court think I am "trying it on" and hammer me, or will they take it at face value and be lenient?

(I do have a reasonably high income, but it gets pretty comprehensively mashed by the mortgage and all the general expenses of running a family, indeed the "Entertainment" type boxes on my form are about the smallest numbers on it!)

[towman]

If you feel brave, attach a copy of bank statements.

steve

[v8 westy]

they dont check it, you can put down what you like!

[Aprisa]

They will look at the gross income field and little else, the outgoings are usually totally fictitious and will not be considered in setting the level of the fine (based on take home pay rather than net).

Nick

[Balmoral Green]

The more 'chav-like' you can make your lifestyle appear, the better. You will get a low level of punishment truly insulting to the rest of society, a pat on the head and lots of understanding and empathy. If you come across as Mr Respectable, they will nail you because you should know better.

Dont use 'monthly' figures for income, talk in terms of 'cummin art wivv a bart £xxx a week'. Also put in details of your Argos storecard repayments, repayments to the local loan shark and things like that.

[minimax]

Aprisa said:

They will look at the gross income field and little else, the outgoings are usually totally fictitious and will not be considered in setting the level of the fine (based on take home pay rather than net). Nick

for gods sake make it as low as possible then! also don't forget to turn up in your very shiniest tracksuit and if possible, go to elizabeth duke the day before and buy lots of 9ct gold tat to adorn your person - it's your best chance at coming out of the experience with your wallet not absolutely drained

good luck

[blueyes]

After being tucked up by Avons finest on the M5: 80-85 actual- 99.1 quoted by vascar, I filled in the form and it worked out I had about £30 left over every week. Pleaded guilty by post with a nice apologetic letter coughing to 80-85.

So... they gave me a £60 fine.... and six points!

I was told, if you don't have the cash to spare they just bump up the points.

BTW, the event spurred me into a personal crusade against speeding tickets and, by playing just as dirty as them, I've saved myself and others a total of 24 points so far.

[Plotloss]

Theres a box for smoking?

Just put down that you smoke 5 Montechristo No.1's a day.

Thats a £550 a week habit...

[craigw]

v8 westy said:

they dont check it, you can put down what you like!

wanna bet? I get a slary & discretionary bonus, when I was asked to fill in the means test I was asked what my earnings would be next year, the bonus is by no means certain so I put down my basic only. Got a m£500 fine. 3 months later had a letter from the clerk of the courts to say that having checked my p60 my earnings were vastly more the previous year.

I wrote back and explained that they hadnt asked what I earned last year, they had asked what I would earn next year & that was by no means certain. They accepted this, be aware, they do check up.

[BlackStuff]

blueyes said:

...they gave me a £60 fine.... and six points! I was told, if you don't have the cash to spare they just bump up the points.

You really know how to cheer a guy up!

[regmolehusband]

If it looks like you're reasonably well off and can afford a bigger fine - LIE!! or at the very least be economical with the truth. There's a war on after all!!

I would if I have to go to court again. As a result of declaring a lot of cash in the bank at the time I got a £450 fine for a safe excess speed event while a lorry driver the following week was fined less than £300 for killing somebody whilst driving carelessly.

"Reg"

>> Edited by regmolehusband on Tuesday 23 November 12:19

[catso]

As I run my own business I have a part of my salary paid to my wife - to use tax allowances etc.
Because of this I put in the salary payable to me along with all the outgoings - left me with about a tenner a week but as my solicitor said they were only asking for my salary.

Anyway they still hit me with £300 + 6pts

Best of luck mate

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Yet another example about how fair our justice system is.....

Justice is blind???

More like let the chavs and scrotes off witha slapped wrist and £10.50 fine, payable at 1p a month for the rest of their lives, meanwhile make an example of the middle classes....

[lunarscope]

For my s172 case I was simply asked in Court how much money I had remaining each week.
I was a bit surprised (was expecting to be given a means form) and off the top of my head said about £80-£90 per week. The Mags had a chat and fined me ......................................................
£750 with £275 costs (and 3 points).
They then asked if I could pay it immediately so I asked for three months.
The maximum for this offence was only £1000 FFS !

[briandavison]

Surely the box for sky, lottery, smoking etc is to prove that you DO have disposable income spent on 'luxuries' you could do without as your punishment (As I understand it punishment was the original idea of a fine - the fact the the treasury pocket the money is just a happy co-incidence for them :-) )

I would guess (but it is only a guess) the more you put in those boxes the more they reckon you could do without

[Dwight VanDriver]

If you have been served with an Order to declare a statement of means then it is an offence to ignore. Further false information or failing to dislose a material fact can in addition to a fine lead to 4 months imprisonment.
(S84 Mags Couirt Act 1980 as amended).

DVD

[BlackStuff]

Dwight VanDriver said:

If you have been served with an Order to declare a statement of means then it is an offence to ignore. Further false information or failing to dislose a material fact can in addition to a fine lead to 4 months imprisonment. (S84 Mags Couirt Act 1980 as amended). DVD

Thanks for that. The form did state quite clearly that I must complete it, and I have no intention of providing false information.

I was just wondering how the information is interpreted in order to arrive at a figure. My circumstances are a bit odd (or perhaps not!) in that I suffered an unexpected salary cut about six months ago, so at the moment my outgoings most definitely exceed my income by the tune of about £200 per month, if I were to fill in the form completely truthfully. I have plans in place to sort this out over the next 3 to 6 months, but right now that is the honest situation.

My worry is that if I do so it might be interpreted that I'm trying to pull a fast one. Also, regardless of my financial predicament I wouldn't want the Mag to decide to penalise with points instead of a fine, as this will ultimately cost me more in any case, via my car insurance policies.

So should I leave off a few outgoings in order to make it appear to balance, or should I append a note explaining the above. I'm not particularly trying to plead poverty, but on the other hand I don't want to be dishonest. It's very difficult to know what to do!

[WildCat]

BlackStuff said:

Thanks for that. The form did state quite clearly that I must complete it, and I have no intention of providing false information. I was just wondering how the information is interpreted in order to arrive at a figure. My circumstances are a bit odd (or perhaps not!) in that I suffered an unexpected salary cut about six months ago, so at the moment my outgoings most definitely exceed my income by the tune of about £200 per month, if I were to fill in the form completely truthfully. I have plans in place to sort this out over the next 3 to 6 months, but right now that is the honest situation. My worry is that if I do so it might be interpreted that I'm trying to pull a fast one. Also, regardless of my financial predicament I wouldn't want the Mag to decide to penalise with points instead of a fine, as this will ultimately cost me more in any case, via my car insurance policies. So should I leave off a few outgoings in order to make it appear to balance, or should I append a note explaining the above. I'm not particularly trying to plead poverty, but on the other hand I don't want to be dishonest. It's very difficult to know what to do!

Liebchen

Not been in this situation ... but can understand what you are saying. You have temporary glitch in your expected incomings (we are bit the same mit expensive new kitten, my maternity leave (even though more generous than most packages ) und preparing for the eldest's gap year or freshman year whichever he decides.. Also .. even mit his Pass Plus ... adding him to our insurance policies - expensive.

I would just fill in according to snapshot of incomings and outgoings as at present. Things do change... you could land a new better paid job, win the lottery (und moon ist made of cream cheeses ), or you could even become redundant or lose another contract if self employed. You cannot see into future after all

I would perhaps include a covering letter explaining circumstance of the sudden drop in expected income und hope that they will understand the situation. If there are any "luxuries" you can do without... then perhaps you could see how this will affect the overall situation before submitting the form. Play around mit a spreadsheet version which tells truth about situation - but shows you try to keep your head just above water.

You could even append your spreadsheet version along mit bank statement to prove your arithemetic ist correct

Just my couple of pennies worth. Shall ask Mad Doc's opinion when he gets in from work ... my poor lover ist worn out from his early morning blats mit the littlest kitten. (I also wear him out ) One of us has to stay to look after the other ones.... und he ist a gentleman

>> Edited by WildCat on Tuesday 23 November 15:47