Incompetant Plumbing firm - Advice needed

[BERGS2]

Hi All - after a bit of advice -

I have recently had my central heating system overhauled - after a number of quotes from various plumbers I went for a large heating engineering firm due to the comprehensive quote and seemingly professional set up -

How wrong I was....

Initially I thought all was OK - my open system was replaced with a condensing combi

Three main problems have surfaced - I'll list them in order of importance:

1) the exterior flue seal was left open
- More cosmetic than major problem - alarmed me and was a sign of things to come...

2) Water leak under the bath - Discovered when water leaked through the kitchen ceiling - they were supposed to test for pressure once installation was complete.

3) The main gas connector to the boiler was loose and leaking Gas - I had Transco round today who said they could issue a 'Riddle' against the Installer through Corgi - but this would have meant condeming the system and us having no heating until it was resolved.

Other than the fact that this was potentially lethal and the installer was a complete idiot the situation is as follows:

- I have paid £1200 (40% of the Quoted price)
- The connector below the bath is still leaking (but into a bowl now...)
- The flu seal has been put back into place

Sorry about the lengthy post but thier gross incompetance has left me livid

Any advice on where I sit legally would be most appreciated

Thanks all

[Dwight VanDriver]

Speak to Trading Standards. They will explain in detail your position as Services are included under the Sale of Goods Act which they will explain.

It may well be that you will have some letters to write to the incompetent firm and eventually if they do not play ball taking them to a Small Claims Court.

DVD

[Wacky Racer]

BERGS2 said:

- The connector below the bath is still leaking (but into a bowl now...)

Why would this firm have been working under your bath, carrying out the work you mentioned???, no reason to go anywhere near it as far as I can see...

Maybe just a co-incidence.....

Is it leaking from under the taps, or the waste pipe.....

If it is leaking from the waste pipe, you can buy a new plastic fitting for around £6.00, complete with new "O" washers and fit it yourself in two minutes..

Just make sure you bed the fitting in with a touch of silicone, on the top surface of the bath, tighten fairly tight with hand pressure, and leave 24 hours to cure and set, without using the bath....

Whatever you do, don't leave it dripping, as your plaster underneath will collapse over time, as I found out to my cost last year...........

Remember a stitch in time saves nine.......

[BERGS2]

Wacky Racer said:

BERGS2 said: - The connector below the bath is still leaking (but into a bowl now...) Is it leaking from under the taps, or the waste pipe.....

It's leaking from a 'T' shaped plastic piece that splits up to the hot tap - due to the new system being at mains pressure I guess this has developed a leak.

They told me this may be the case with the rads (one had a pinhole so it needed replacement)

Fact is it should have been tested for leaks and as it is now leaking, i'm guessing it wasn't.

[billynomates]

BERGS2 said:

Hi All - after a bit of advice - I have recently had my central heating system overhauled - after a number of quotes from various plumbers I went for a large heating engineering firm due to the comprehensive quote and seemingly professional set up - How wrong I was.... Initially I thought all was OK - my open system was replaced with a condensing combi Three main problems have surfaced - I'll list them in order of importance: 1) the exterior flue seal was left open - More cosmetic than major problem - alarmed me and was a sign of things to come... 2) Water leak under the bath - Discovered when water leaked through the kitchen ceiling - they were supposed to test for pressure once installation was complete. 3) The main gas connector to the boiler was loose and leaking Gas - I had Transco round today who said they could issue a 'Riddle' against the Installer through Corgi - but this would have meant condeming the system and us having no heating until it was resolved. Other than the fact that this was potentially lethal and the installer was a complete idiot the situation is as follows: - I have paid £1200 (40% of the Quoted price) - The connector below the bath is still leaking (but into a bowl now...) - The flu seal has been put back into place Sorry about the lengthy post but thier gross incompetance has left me livid Any advice on where I sit legally would be most appreciated Thanks all

You say test for pressure...for what? is the system now fully pressurized or just on the heating side?

I guess you have been in contact with said " professionals" and asked them to sort out the problems.

Gas leak: sorted though you no doubt paid Tranco


Flue: no problem


Leak under bath: cant see how this is related.


And you've only paid 40% of the quote/invoice

On to a winner here matey.

Leave it alone till they ask you for balance.

[Bergs2]

billynomates said:

You say test for pressure...for what? is the system now fully pressurized or just on the heating side?

Hot water pressure from a Combi as opposed to hot water tank = much higher pressure at the tap

billynomates said:

I guess you have been in contact with said " professionals" and asked them to sort out the problems.

oh yes

billynomates said:

Leak under bath: cant see how this is related.

the leak is due to the increased pressure to the hot water tap in the bath - Kitchen ceiling is now on kitchen floor



>> Edited by Bergs2 on Tuesday 23 November 16:42

>> Edited by Bergs2 on Tuesday 23 November 16:43

[Pigeon]

BERGS2 said:

It's leaking from a 'T' shaped plastic piece that splits up to the hot tap - due to the new system being at mains pressure I guess this has developed a leak.

If that's a plastic push-fit connector, they do have a tendency to leak if the surface of the pipe is not perfectly smooth. It's not uncommon to find a longitudinal scratch down the length of a pipe where it's been pulled out of racking/vans etc, and this is not good news with those connectors.

Best thing is to replace it with a more tolerant fitting. If the pipe's plastic it should be possible to find a replacement that is glued into place with a special glue. If it's copper then use a soldered fitting (if the pipe isn't too badly scratched you might get away with a compression fitting).

[parrot of doom]

heh, you've only paid 40% - excellent. Find yourself a local plumber (get recommendations from neighbours), get him to do the work, and then charge his bill to the cowboys.

[BERGS2]

parrot of doom said:

heh, you've only paid 40% - excellent. Find yourself a local plumber (get recommendations from neighbours), get him to do the work, and then charge his bill to the cowboys.

Cheers for the advice guys - was really looking for where i stand legally -

They fitted an appliance that leaked gas into my house - Am I entitled to withhold payment on the grounds that the job wasn't completed (even though it was just a a fitting that wasn't done up)?

[Targarama]

Have you spoken with the installers yet? I can't tell from your post. I don't know the legal aspects, but if they come and put everything right without wibbling then what is the issue? The pipe leak sounds unforunate - these things can happen and it sounds like the pipe is in a not-normally-visible place. The flue is lazy workmanship, the gas leak is naughty and they should be round in a flash to sort it out if they like their Corgi registered status.

[stevecallaghan]

Had a similar problem a few years ago. CORGI will insist that the original plumbers are given the first chance to put things right. Not much use to you really.
Just say that the 40% tendered already is your full and final offer for the standard of workmanship so far supplied.
That should do the trick.

[Davel]

Don't worry too much, there are many more incompetent plumbers out there should you need another!

[Mr2Mike]

Targarama said:

? The pipe leak sounds unforunate - these things can happen and it sounds like the pipe is in a not-normally-visible place.

That's not the point. When converting an existsing open heating system to a sealed, pressurised system, a pressure test should be performed to detect exactly this kind of problem.

[Antwerpman]

I think that you would be within your rights to deduct the cost of any damages resulting from the quality of their work from their bill (specifically fixing your ceiling). I also think that you must give them first shot at fixing the other problems, however if this is not done within a 'reasonable' timescale (as specified by you in writing via registered mail) then you could also employ an alternative company to make good their work and again deduct this from their bill.

I dont think that you are legally entitled to withhold money because there was a fault in the first place which they later rectified (within your reasonable timescale) as from a legal position you can only be in the position you would have been had the contract been executed properly or not executed at all...