Policing on the Cheap
Discussion
I recently took part in an ANPR Operation in Central London and was absolutely amazed at the number of PCSO's that were being used.
The split between 'real' Police was about 50/50 and to watch them work was a real eye opener.
Im not here to bash the individual people but from what i could see, they were not competant enough to deal with such a delicate operation. This all comes down to experience and of course ...training.
From what we have been told from the Government, this is the way forward and quite frankly im worried.
The split between 'real' Police was about 50/50 and to watch them work was a real eye opener.
Im not here to bash the individual people but from what i could see, they were not competant enough to deal with such a delicate operation. This all comes down to experience and of course ...training.
From what we have been told from the Government, this is the way forward and quite frankly im worried.
TonyRec,
The writing is on the wall.
This gov. is concerned with appearance not substance.
Police officers take too long to train and cost too much.
Why bother when you can quickly train and get on to the street straight away any old gimp armed with a FPN/ticket booklet and biro.
The pen truly is mightier than the truncheon.
The writing is on the wall.
This gov. is concerned with appearance not substance.
Police officers take too long to train and cost too much.
Why bother when you can quickly train and get on to the street straight away any old gimp armed with a FPN/ticket booklet and biro.
The pen truly is mightier than the truncheon.
false economy.
like some stratergy games you can play. Do you buy lots of plebs cheaply or 2 or 3 relly good units?
If you want a good show and field a lot of men to look good then you go for the pleps but dont count on them to actually fight or last very long.
If you want to secure a line and bash the other side, normally its the really good units to go for.
Clearly a mix is often good but the HO seam to be going down the 'looking good for show' instead of any substance or quality - apart from the existing regular police officers.
like some stratergy games you can play. Do you buy lots of plebs cheaply or 2 or 3 relly good units?
If you want a good show and field a lot of men to look good then you go for the pleps but dont count on them to actually fight or last very long.
If you want to secure a line and bash the other side, normally its the really good units to go for.
Clearly a mix is often good but the HO seam to be going down the 'looking good for show' instead of any substance or quality - apart from the existing regular police officers.
superlightr said:
false economy.
like some stratergy games you can play. Do you buy lots of plebs cheaply or 2 or 3 relly good units?
If you want a good show and field a lot of men to look good then you go for the pleps but dont count on them to actually fight or last very long.
I like the analogy. What we need is a big computer simulation game.
SimUK, or something.
Before any government is allowed to take office it has to play the game for a few days.
If they make a complete balls of it, they get booted out and the next lot can have a go.
That way the polititians would spend all their lives playing computer games and we could all get on with our lives.
>> Edited by 'King Deadly on Monday 29th November 12:43
Tonyrec said:
I recently took part in an ANPR Operation in Central London and was absolutely amazed at the number of PCSO's that were being used.
The split between 'real' Police was about 50/50 and to watch them work was a real eye opener.
Im not here to bash the individual people but from what i could see, they were not competant enough to deal with such a delicate operation. This all comes down to experience and of course ...training.
From what we have been told from the Government, this is the way forward and quite frankly im worried.
About as much use as a chocolate sump plug ... Liebchen.
It ist like Steviebabes (ex-submarine man - possibly a yellow one
) saying he is "road safety expert" because he works in Pratnership ....und compiles statistics....(which are meaningless anyway as 40% made up anyway ) All lip service .. on the cheap ... keeping up appearances ... deceiving the public .... as per usual....
Would rather have one awesome fully trained cop mit muscles und discretion than half a dozen incompetents....who have delusions of grandeur....
Strange...I seem to recall from my history lessons another government came up with politically-appointed pseudo police...called brownshirts!!!
Except they were soon given more powers than "ordinary" police, and operated partially outside the law...I think you can all remember where that went!!!
[Apologies to Wildcat and any others who may be offended by that - no offence meant, I merely want to highlight a risk in where this country is going]
Except they were soon given more powers than "ordinary" police, and operated partially outside the law...I think you can all remember where that went!!!
[Apologies to Wildcat and any others who may be offended by that - no offence meant, I merely want to highlight a risk in where this country is going]
Hmm, so it seems that most of the police officers on here are unhappy with the introduction of PCSOs, Highways Agency etc.
I thought the purpose of the PCSOs was just to provide street patrols in built up areas, equipped with a radio and able to call for help from police in the event of a crime happening.. but it seems to be more than this. Interesting.
I thought the purpose of the PCSOs was just to provide street patrols in built up areas, equipped with a radio and able to call for help from police in the event of a crime happening.. but it seems to be more than this. Interesting.
Ref HATOs. I really fail to understand the problems which BiB have with the introduction of these guys. I thought they were there to "finish off" after BiBs had done the proper police work. Why do we need two trained BiBs in a marked car babysitting an abandoned car on the motorway while they wait for recovery? HATO is better surely.
I was thinking of applying to be one, but I am started to get put off by the negative feedback they are getting on here.
Steve
I was thinking of applying to be one, but I am started to get put off by the negative feedback they are getting on here.
Steve
This has been coming for years. I have no problem with a well funded police force doing the job of catching crooks and dangerous drivers. However the cost of a fully trained officer is huge when you take in the salary,absenteisum,pension and other on costs. Now as the poloticians are making it much harder to convict people by reclassifying crimes to less seroius matters thye reduce the need for prisons and real police officers. So we set up these cheap options and label it a step forward! Listening to radio two today they are now having volunteers from the public to man police stations. Using the excuse it frees up officers. Now I thought we paid our taxes to get a police force it appears we pay for a few police, a lot of pretend police a few hobby bobbies and now volunteers. there is no wonder the genral population is feeling let down and it is the real police who get it in the neck from the public and the poloticians.
I think that we could have a full debate about where PC's, PCSO's, Community Wardens, Civilian Workers, Traffic Wardens, HATO's, Special Constables and Volunteer Wardens fit into the equation.
I have no problem with non-police people taking on those roles that do not require a power of arrest which, is surely, the main purpose of a police officer.
I certainly do not want to see a PC sat at the front desk of a police station dealing with producers, lost property, etc..
We have to get the balance right about what tasks each different role should be able to perform ONCE they have had the relevant training.
I have no problem with non-police people taking on those roles that do not require a power of arrest which, is surely, the main purpose of a police officer.
I certainly do not want to see a PC sat at the front desk of a police station dealing with producers, lost property, etc..
We have to get the balance right about what tasks each different role should be able to perform ONCE they have had the relevant training.
ca...
Agreed - if these people can perform "administrative" tasks, such as front-desk / paperwork / babysitting cars etc., then I think that is eminently sensible, as the cost to the public purse is less.
BUT...if they are being substituted into situations requiring training and judgement (not just catching criminals, where evidence trail must be preserved and due process followed, but also less palatable tasks such as notifying next-of-kin), then I would get very worried.
Agreed - if these people can perform "administrative" tasks, such as front-desk / paperwork / babysitting cars etc., then I think that is eminently sensible, as the cost to the public purse is less.
BUT...if they are being substituted into situations requiring training and judgement (not just catching criminals, where evidence trail must be preserved and due process followed, but also less palatable tasks such as notifying next-of-kin), then I would get very worried.
I have no problem with a clerical job being done by a civy but where the community officers work ie in areas of concern, if they see a crime as I understand it they cannot detain people so what is the point? And the problem I have is the fact that if a job needs a clerical person it should be an employee not some busy boddy oap who has nothing better to do. We have seen them given speed cameras, now assisting in police stations, where will it stop. You would never want a busy doctor being helped by some one with no training so why accept this fopr the law?
havoc said:
ca...
BUT...if they are being substituted into situations requiring training and judgement (not just catching criminals, where evidence trail must be preserved and due process followed, but also less palatable tasks such as notifying next-of-kin), then I would get very worried.
As long as they actually receive that training in order to be able to form a judgement, then I think that is a positive step. Without it I, like you, would be very worried.
towman said:
Ref HATOs. I really fail to understand the problems which BiB have with the introduction of these guys. I thought they were there to "finish off" after BiBs had done the proper police work. Why do we need two trained BiBs in a marked car babysitting an abandoned car on the motorway while they wait for recovery? HATO is better surely.
I was thinking of applying to be one, but I am started to get put off by the negative feedback they are getting on here.
Steve
Steve,
Please dont be put off by what is said on here. I know that an ex Metpol C/Insp is actually training the HATO.
I personally dont like the idea of them because i know that from my experience of patrolling the Motorway, we used to have 2 dedicated cars that never left the Motorway. Now we have 1 car that patrols as well as doing other things and sometimes it doesnt even make it onto the Motorway.
I see the HATO's as the governments way of flying the flag on the cheap. I might be proven wrong and i hope that iam.
However, i can see it being a good job for anyone new and as ive said, you need to try it before you dismiss it.
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