Monday 29th November 2004

Variable speeding penalties arrive

Government Bill ignores need for more trafpol

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In the Road Safety Bill, which the government will reveal this week, proposals include powers to vary fixed penalties for speeding. The idea is that more you exceed the limit, the higher the penalty.

Under the new scheme, up to 39mph in a 30mph limit will only result in two points and a £40 fine. The new penalties will also be applicable to speeds of up to 50mph in a 40mph zone, 72mph in a 60mph zone and 83mph in a 70mph zone. If you exceed the limits by more than 15 to 24mph, depending on the zone, you'll cop six points and a fine of £100.

Road safety groups claim that pedestrians are twice as likely to be killed at 39mph as at 30mph.

What they ignore of course is the need for flexibility depending on the conditions. Cars travelling at 39mph at 3am on a Sunday morning are highly unlikely to hit children outside a school. At 4pm on a Thursday, it's a different matter. Similarly, 83mph on an empty motorway is little or no safer than 100mph. In fog or heavy rain, 60mph may be too fast.

So the Bill reinforces the idea that as long as you drive within the limit, you're safe. There's no suggestion within the Bill that measures such as driver training and regular re-testing could achieve the aim of making our roads safer. and behind it all is a continuing reliance on cameras rather than the more flexible approach a traffic police officer could provide.

Motoring organisations back the government though. “The punishment should fit the crime,” said Edmund King from the RAC Foundation.

“Why should a driver who inadvertently goes a few miles per hour over the limit receive the same penalty as a boy racer who deliberately and habitually goes well over the limit? It’s just changing the system to make it fairer. There should be a punishment system that reflects the speed people are doing.”

[johnnystorm]

Remember Kids, its not about the money!

[gh0st]

Nope. Never about the money. Not once.

[snarfy]

erm. So 31mph will get me 2 points ?

[thru5h]

quote " receive the same penalty as a boy racer who deliberately and habitually goes well over the limit?"

and theres me seeing and believing the majority of habitual speeders I encounter on a daily baisis as middle aged men in saloons, ie company cars.

[v8thunder]

Right: this bit makes sense:

Motoring organisations back the government though. “The punishment should fit the crime,” said Edmund King from the RAC Foundation.

“Why should a driver who inadvertently goes a few miles per hour over the limit receive the same penalty as a boy racer who deliberately and habitually goes well over the limit? It’s just changing the system to make it fairer. There should be a punishment system that reflects the speed people are doing.”


The fact that you still get a fine and points for something that could happen if you're just scanning an empty road ahead for traffic isn't.

[pdV6]

Edmund King said:

The punishment should fit the crime. Why should a driver who inadvertently goes a few miles per hour over the limit receive the same penalty as a boy racer who deliberately and habitually goes well over the limit? It’s just changing the system to make it fairer. There should be a punishment system that reflects the speed people are doing.

OK - sounds fair enough. If the punishment should fit the crime, then the default should be £0.00 and 0 points, seeing as nobody's been hurt or inconvenienced.

If you have an accident in a built up area and were over the set limit, maybe its fair enough to have a sliding scale of punishment. Otherwise, just feck off and leave us to go about our lives.

Oh, sorry, you're right - it is about the money...

[hunttheshunt]

I'd have no problem with any of this if I thought these laws would be interpreted by a trained Policeman who was prepared to take into account time, traffic, weather etc.

It would also be slightly more reasuuring if it wasn't variable by job, e.g MP, Senior Policeman etc.

[safespeed]

Ted,

Where did this story come from?

[manek]

I picked it up from a news story in the Glasgow Herald.

[Tafia]

v8thunder said:

Right: this bit makes sense: Motoring organisations back the government though. “The punishment should fit the crime,” said Edmund King from the RAC Foundation. “Why should a driver who inadvertently goes a few miles per hour over the limit receive the same penalty as a boy racer who deliberately and habitually goes well over the limit? It’s just changing the system to make it fairer. There should be a punishment system that reflects the speed people are doing.”

It doesn't make sense if, as we suspect, we will now be done for 1 mph over the limit. Are the RAC bods thick or just unaware?

On my dial, 1 mph is the width of the speedo needle.............

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Tafia said:

v8thunder said: Right: this bit makes sense: Motoring organisations back the government though. “The punishment should fit the crime,” said Edmund King from the RAC Foundation. “Why should a driver who inadvertently goes a few miles per hour over the limit receive the same penalty as a boy racer who deliberately and habitually goes well over the limit? It’s just changing the system to make it fairer. There should be a punishment system that reflects the speed people are doing.” It doesn't make sense if, as we suspect, we will now be done for 1 mph over the limit. Are the RAC bods thick or just unaware? On my dial, 1 mph is the width of the speedo needle.............

and is almost certainly in error by more than that anyway. Man I hate this total reliance on cameras...

[DanL]

Tafia said:

It doesn't make sense if, as we suspect, we will now be done for 1 mph over the limit. Are the RAC bods thick or just unaware? On my dial, 1 mph is the width of the speedo needle.............

Remember kids, it's a limit, not a target.

Back to this quote tho;

RAC said:

“Why should a driver who inadvertently goes a few miles per hour over the limit receive the same penalty as a boy racer who deliberately and habitually goes well over the limit? It’s just changing the system to make it fairer. There should be a punishment system that reflects the speed people are doing.”

I'm entirely sure that's already what happens, isn't it? Big speeds over the limit attract larger points/fine. Previously, a few mph over the limit attracted nothing at all...

Dan

[ian d]

anybody ever suggested reapraising the current speed limits. i mean they are only fifty ish years old, when most cars had drum brakes & crossply tyres. that would be refreshing even radical!

pity the legislators can't develope at the same rate as the technologies but hey some of you out there voted for them.

[xxplod]

I actually e-mailed the Home Office regarding this bill some time ago. It is ill-thought out. Whilst I agree with the principle of a lower penalty for lesser offenders, this idea of a 6 point ticket for "more serious" offences is flawed. It basically means that you can only get one ticket before you are looking at a ban. This will put immense pressure on the Courts, and will lead to more owners taking steps to avoid detection. It will also inevitably lead to more drivers driving without insurance and/or whilst disqualified.

[stooz]

its all too late anyway. Round my way (brum) its hard enough to get the average driver anywhere near the speed limit
60, drive at 45
40, drive at 30
30, drive at 20

people are braking for cameras, when the weren't speeding in the first place!!

[supraman2954]

sad act road safety groups said:

pedestrians are twice as likely to be killed at 39mph as at 30mph

Pedestrians are infinitely more likely to be killed if they step out into a road without looking, irrespective of the speed of the vehicle!

A simple rule which they always conveniently forget; pavements are for pedestrians, roads are for cars.

If they are so worried about pedestrians, then why also the blanket enforcement on DCs/Mways?

[v8thunder]

sad act road safety groups said:

pedestrians are twice as likely to be killed at 39mph as at 30mph

Where the hell do they get this information? Who compiles it and how? All I can assume is that every person who's ever been run over is able to tell the exact speed of the vehicle and tell someone about it before they died.

Because, of course, if it was taken by a scamera, then it obviously didn't 'save a life', and we all know that's what scameras do, don't we?

[donteatpeople]

That realy annoys me when people brake for cameras when there is no need. Does anybody know why they do it?

[telecat]

I have noticed more crashes lately than at any other time in my driving life. This despite the "Scamera" blitz. Myu own theory is that there are so many distractions in the form of Gatso's, vans on the side of the road that look like Talivans and also the growth of the "green" jacketed brigade that look like a roadside trap. This is making some drivers so nervous they are "snatching" at the controls causing them to lose control. I call it the "gotcha" effect after the golf joke. It has undone all the good work done by the real road safety efforts of the last 20-odd years.

[annodomini2]

because they're not paying attention to what they're doing, see the camera, don;t think to look what speed they are travelling at or the queue of traffic thats built up behind them while they're dordeling along.