Notifying DVLA of blackouts?
Discussion
A friend manages a shop that does deliveries. One of their drivers went home early last week as he claimed he had a black out and couldn't carry on driving.
Regardless of whether lead is being swung should my friend be reporting this? The driver has apparently gone to the doctors, complained of being unwell but has not mentioned the blackout.
Regardless of whether lead is being swung should my friend be reporting this? The driver has apparently gone to the doctors, complained of being unwell but has not mentioned the blackout.
See official line:
https://www.gov.uk/blackouts-and-driving
No way would the person who went home be driving for me again until either the doctor or DVLC said it was ok.
https://www.gov.uk/blackouts-and-driving
No way would the person who went home be driving for me again until either the doctor or DVLC said it was ok.
Spangles said:
But the question remains, has the employer got to tell DVLA? Or to put it another way, would the driver have a legitimate complaint if the employer did go behind his back and tell DVLA.
I would suggest if he crashed having a blackout that the employer would find himself liable for the damage caused as he has a knowledge of it.The Health and Safety Executive would also be interested.
I think he's got to speak to his driver and find out exactly what happened and get a written letter from his doctor confirming he doesn't "black out".
Spangles said:
A friend manages a shop that does deliveries. One of their drivers went home early last week as he claimed he had a black out and couldn't carry on driving.
If he really did have a blackout then the driver has a legal duty to report it to the DVLA.Spangles said:
Regardless of whether lead is being swung should my friend be reporting this? The driver has apparently gone to the doctors, complained of being unwell but has not mentioned the blackout.
This begs the question of whether the driver is aware that disclosure to any medical professional mandates that the latter report it to the DVLA (they don't have a choice). Accordingly it may well be that the non-disclosure is deliberate as the driver fears losing his job.Jasandjules said:
I would suggest if he crashed having a blackout that the employer would find himself liable for the damage caused as he has a knowledge of it.
The Health and Safety Executive would also be interested.
I think he's got to speak to his driver and find out exactly what happened and get a written letter from his doctor confirming he doesn't "black out".
^^This^^The Health and Safety Executive would also be interested.
I think he's got to speak to his driver and find out exactly what happened and get a written letter from his doctor confirming he doesn't "black out".
The employer has an overriding common law duty of care towards its employees - http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3751
Furthermore the employer's insurer isn't going to be too impressed about any concealment - http://www.yourcoverinsurance.co.uk/car-insurance/...
If he's having blackouts then he is obliged to report this to DVLA. Whether he does or not is his choice.
As an employer, knowing that he's had a blackout recently, I'd (shall we say) not be happy about him driving for work even if he has a note from his GP or - on a personal level - driving himself and his family around where others might also be affected if he does blackout with ensuing consequences while he's behind the wheel. I'd be seeing legal advice as his employer on how to play this without breaking whatever 'rules' or employment laws are in place which need to be respected nor being oppressive against the employee (who, let's be honest, has a potential health problem
).
As an employer, knowing that he's had a blackout recently, I'd (shall we say) not be happy about him driving for work even if he has a note from his GP or - on a personal level - driving himself and his family around where others might also be affected if he does blackout with ensuing consequences while he's behind the wheel. I'd be seeing legal advice as his employer on how to play this without breaking whatever 'rules' or employment laws are in place which need to be respected nor being oppressive against the employee (who, let's be honest, has a potential health problem
).My advice:
Employer should under no circumstances let him drive for work. Insisting on a 'fit to drive' certification is absolutely the right thing to do.
Employee needs to go to his doctor and be honest. If he won't, the best thing employer can do is tip doctor off and ask doctor to challenge the employee. Give the GP the chance to sort it. Doctor will be obliged to inform DVLA if employee doesn't take advice:
Doctor will recommend he doesn't drive til he is checked and he should take this advice, if he doesn't then see comment above.
If someone informs DVLA (because he isn't taking the advice of doctor/employer/family/friends) then they will launch a medical investigation and send him a questionnaire. It's unlikely they will do this on the back of a member of the public reporting it, but 'someone' could be a doctor or medically qualified acquaintance.
At this point it is in his absolute best interests to surrender his licence. That is the best advice you can give him.
Why? If he doesn't there is a very high risk DVLA will revoke the licence and he may not see it back for a very long time. He will also lose his rights under S.88 Road Traffic Act forever.
If he surrenders it, as soon as his GP says he is fit to drive again (and this may only be a few weeks) he can drive while DVLA arrange to have the licence reissued.
I let DVLA make the decision after a similar event when I saw stars getting up off the sofa and decided to go and see my GP about it. While I had stopped driving under GP advice, some kind soul decided to tell DVLA about the event. I had stopped driving and my car was SORNed (my wife can't drive) so I didn't feel it necessary to surrender my licence. DVLA give you the chance to surrender your licence but if you don't do so then they look into it and make a decision. I have had my licence revoked for 12 months as a result.
Had I surrendered my licence I'd have been back on the road by now, as neurology and GP gave me an 'all clear and fit to drive' about 3 months ago. The opinions of my GP and consultant do not overrule the DVLA decision and I now face an expensive legal bill taking DVLA to court. Or I wait til October til the 12 months is up.
Nearly seven months after getting up off the sofa one evening, I've been fine ever since and passed any and every test and scan. No diagnosis of any illness whatsoever. If there was actually something wrong with me I'd suck it up and accept it.
Anyway, getting back to the point: Just pass this tale to him and hopefully he will benefit from my advice.
ETA: Off topic a little but the motoring solicitor handling my case has a few interesting stories! He said it's not uncommon for people trying to avoid accident liability or points or the licence saying something like 'I blacked out for a moment'. Little do they realise the s
t they drop themselves into!
Employer should under no circumstances let him drive for work. Insisting on a 'fit to drive' certification is absolutely the right thing to do.
Employee needs to go to his doctor and be honest. If he won't, the best thing employer can do is tip doctor off and ask doctor to challenge the employee. Give the GP the chance to sort it. Doctor will be obliged to inform DVLA if employee doesn't take advice:
Doctor will recommend he doesn't drive til he is checked and he should take this advice, if he doesn't then see comment above.
If someone informs DVLA (because he isn't taking the advice of doctor/employer/family/friends) then they will launch a medical investigation and send him a questionnaire. It's unlikely they will do this on the back of a member of the public reporting it, but 'someone' could be a doctor or medically qualified acquaintance.
At this point it is in his absolute best interests to surrender his licence. That is the best advice you can give him.
Why? If he doesn't there is a very high risk DVLA will revoke the licence and he may not see it back for a very long time. He will also lose his rights under S.88 Road Traffic Act forever.
If he surrenders it, as soon as his GP says he is fit to drive again (and this may only be a few weeks) he can drive while DVLA arrange to have the licence reissued.
I let DVLA make the decision after a similar event when I saw stars getting up off the sofa and decided to go and see my GP about it. While I had stopped driving under GP advice, some kind soul decided to tell DVLA about the event. I had stopped driving and my car was SORNed (my wife can't drive) so I didn't feel it necessary to surrender my licence. DVLA give you the chance to surrender your licence but if you don't do so then they look into it and make a decision. I have had my licence revoked for 12 months as a result.
Had I surrendered my licence I'd have been back on the road by now, as neurology and GP gave me an 'all clear and fit to drive' about 3 months ago. The opinions of my GP and consultant do not overrule the DVLA decision and I now face an expensive legal bill taking DVLA to court. Or I wait til October til the 12 months is up.
Nearly seven months after getting up off the sofa one evening, I've been fine ever since and passed any and every test and scan. No diagnosis of any illness whatsoever. If there was actually something wrong with me I'd suck it up and accept it.
Anyway, getting back to the point: Just pass this tale to him and hopefully he will benefit from my advice.
ETA: Off topic a little but the motoring solicitor handling my case has a few interesting stories! He said it's not uncommon for people trying to avoid accident liability or points or the licence saying something like 'I blacked out for a moment'. Little do they realise the s
t they drop themselves into!Edited by texasjohn on Saturday 3rd May 20:12
texasjohn said:
I let DVLA make the decision after a similar event when I saw stars getting up off the sofa and decided to go and see my GP about it. While I had stopped driving under GP advice, some kind soul decided to tell DVLA about the event.
Don't know who told on you, but a GP is entitled to do so if he/she has good reason to believe their advice is being ignored.GMC Guidance to medical professionals.
7. If you do not manage to persuade the patient to stop driving, or you discover that they are continuing to drive against your advice, you should contact the DVLA immediately and disclose any relevant medical information, in confidence, to the medical adviser.
www.gmc-uk.org/Confidentiality_reporting_concerns_...
However it should not be done without the patient's knowledge.
8.Before contacting the DVLA you should try to inform the patient of your decision to disclose personal information. You should then also inform the patient in writing once you have done so.
I agree 100% with your advice btw.
Edited by Red Devil on Saturday 3rd May 21:21
texasjohn said:
My advice:
Employer should under no circumstances let him drive for work. Insisting on a 'fit to drive' certification is absolutely the right thing to do.
Employee needs to go to his doctor and be honest. If he won't, the best thing employer can do is tip doctor off and ask doctor to challenge the employee. Give the GP the chance to sort it. Doctor will be obliged to inform DVLA if employee doesn't take advice:
Doctor will recommend he doesn't drive til he is checked and he should take this advice, if he doesn't then see comment above.
If someone informs DVLA (because he isn't taking the advice of doctor/employer/family/friends) then they will launch a medical investigation and send him a questionnaire. It's unlikely they will do this on the back of a member of the public reporting it, but 'someone' could be a doctor or medically qualified acquaintance.
At this point it is in his absolute best interests to surrender his licence. That is the best advice you can give him.
Why? If he doesn't there is a very high risk DVLA will revoke the licence and he may not see it back for a very long time. He will also lose his rights under S.88 Road Traffic Act forever.
If he surrenders it, as soon as his GP says he is fit to drive again (and this may only be a few weeks) he can drive while DVLA arrange to have the licence reissued.
I let DVLA make the decision after a similar event when I saw stars getting up off the sofa and decided to go and see my GP about it. While I had stopped driving under GP advice, some kind soul decided to tell DVLA about the event. I had stopped driving and my car was SORNed (my wife can't drive) so I didn't feel it necessary to surrender my licence. DVLA give you the chance to surrender your licence but if you don't do so then they look into it and make a decision. I have had my licence revoked for 12 months as a result.
Had I surrendered my licence I'd have been back on the road by now, as neurology and GP gave me an 'all clear and fit to drive' about 3 months ago. The opinions of my GP and consultant do not overrule the DVLA decision and I now face an expensive legal bill taking DVLA to court. Or I wait til October til the 12 months is up.
Nearly seven months after getting up off the sofa one evening, I've been fine ever since and passed any and every test and scan. No diagnosis of any illness whatsoever. If there was actually something wrong with me I'd suck it up and accept it.
Anyway, getting back to the point: Just pass this tale to him and hopefully he will benefit from my advice.
ETA: Off topic a little but the motoring solicitor handling my case has a few interesting stories! He said it's not uncommon for people trying to avoid accident liability or points or the licence saying something like 'I blacked out for a moment'. Little do they realise the st they drop themselves into!
I've had a different experience to you, albeit back in 2008.Employer should under no circumstances let him drive for work. Insisting on a 'fit to drive' certification is absolutely the right thing to do.
Employee needs to go to his doctor and be honest. If he won't, the best thing employer can do is tip doctor off and ask doctor to challenge the employee. Give the GP the chance to sort it. Doctor will be obliged to inform DVLA if employee doesn't take advice:
Doctor will recommend he doesn't drive til he is checked and he should take this advice, if he doesn't then see comment above.
If someone informs DVLA (because he isn't taking the advice of doctor/employer/family/friends) then they will launch a medical investigation and send him a questionnaire. It's unlikely they will do this on the back of a member of the public reporting it, but 'someone' could be a doctor or medically qualified acquaintance.
At this point it is in his absolute best interests to surrender his licence. That is the best advice you can give him.
Why? If he doesn't there is a very high risk DVLA will revoke the licence and he may not see it back for a very long time. He will also lose his rights under S.88 Road Traffic Act forever.
If he surrenders it, as soon as his GP says he is fit to drive again (and this may only be a few weeks) he can drive while DVLA arrange to have the licence reissued.
I let DVLA make the decision after a similar event when I saw stars getting up off the sofa and decided to go and see my GP about it. While I had stopped driving under GP advice, some kind soul decided to tell DVLA about the event. I had stopped driving and my car was SORNed (my wife can't drive) so I didn't feel it necessary to surrender my licence. DVLA give you the chance to surrender your licence but if you don't do so then they look into it and make a decision. I have had my licence revoked for 12 months as a result.
Had I surrendered my licence I'd have been back on the road by now, as neurology and GP gave me an 'all clear and fit to drive' about 3 months ago. The opinions of my GP and consultant do not overrule the DVLA decision and I now face an expensive legal bill taking DVLA to court. Or I wait til October til the 12 months is up.
Nearly seven months after getting up off the sofa one evening, I've been fine ever since and passed any and every test and scan. No diagnosis of any illness whatsoever. If there was actually something wrong with me I'd suck it up and accept it.
Anyway, getting back to the point: Just pass this tale to him and hopefully he will benefit from my advice.
ETA: Off topic a little but the motoring solicitor handling my case has a few interesting stories! He said it's not uncommon for people trying to avoid accident liability or points or the licence saying something like 'I blacked out for a moment'. Little do they realise the s
t they drop themselves into!Edited by texasjohn on Saturday 3rd May 20:12
My licence was revoked due to what a Police Officer reported to DVLA.
My licence was returned in seven weeks.
Spangles said:
But the question remains, has the employer got to tell DVLA? Or to put it another way, would the driver have a legitimate complaint if the employer did go behind his back and tell DVLA.
If your friend doesn't report him and the person in question 'blacks out' behind the wheel and kills/injures someone your friend would spend the rest of his life saying 'if only I had done something', I wouldn't want it on my conscience.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff