driving while banned/uninsured. We should let them off.
Discussion
I'm being serious.
Have watched a few Police Camera Action type programs and these guys can't seem to help themselves. It's the same guys who've started driving at 14 get banned before they've even started driving but drive on unlicenced, untrained, uninsured and usually in an unroadworthy car. The problem is everytime they get caught all that seems to happen is a fine that gets paid at a pound a week for the rest of their sorry assed lives the length of ban gets longer and longer. As a result they see no chance of ever getting to drive a car legally and also feel they have nothing to lose and drive on regardless.
What I'd do is scrap the ban, give them free driving lessons, get them through their test and have them properly trained to drive licenced. Soft I know, but then I'd also have them doing these lessons on a residential course and the residence would be prison, no pass, no release. If they re-offended it would be prison rather than points again. My thinking is these guys are addicted to driving. So if they tow the line they get to drive legally if they don't they get locked up. Not sure it would work but, hey, does they way things are at the moment work?
Tannedbaldhead said:
What I'd do is scrap the ban, give them free driving lessons, get them through their test and have them properly trained to drive licenced. Soft I know, but then I'd also have them doing these lessons on a residential course and the residence would be prison, no pass, no release. If they re-offended it would be prison rather than points again. My thinking is these guys are addicted to driving. So if they tow the line they get to drive legally if they don't they get locked up. Not sure it would work but, hey, does they way things are at the moment work?
I have referred to this as legalised joy riding.
OP, your proposal (assuming not parrot-powered) is sensible and practical, but just imagine the hoo hah in the idiot tabloids if such a plan were to be mooted by a Minister. If we are (un) lucky, one of the usual PH shouty shout shout types will join the thread in due course to take the kneejerk Daily Mail line. We may even see the T word being deployed.
There is a wider problem. The middle class nutter driver (I was one too, but paid my own repair bills) in most cases eventually acquires a sense of social responsibility and slows the f
k down. If you have been badly brought up in a social setting that attaches no virtue to co operation, compromise and social peace, and does not teach you that actions have consequences for others, you may carry on driving like a twunt even if licensed. Having said that, he courses the OP suggests could, perhaps, go some way to getting the yoofs to think about how their behaviour impacts on others.
There is a wider problem. The middle class nutter driver (I was one too, but paid my own repair bills) in most cases eventually acquires a sense of social responsibility and slows the f
k down. If you have been badly brought up in a social setting that attaches no virtue to co operation, compromise and social peace, and does not teach you that actions have consequences for others, you may carry on driving like a twunt even if licensed. Having said that, he courses the OP suggests could, perhaps, go some way to getting the yoofs to think about how their behaviour impacts on others. Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 4th May 08:43
It's a conversation with wider application. My opinion has long been that we should invest in our criminals and prisoners, in particular. Instead of simply keeping relatively harmless criminals segregated from society, we should use the opportunity of a captive audience (pun totally intended) to at least try and remove the drivers of the offending. At the very least, prisoners should leave prison being able to read and write to the standards you'd expect of a 10 or 11 year old, for example.
Sadly, spending tax payer's funds on criminals whilst others have to pay £9000 a year to go to Uni will not go down well with voters in the short term, which is a shame, as the long term outlook (and cost savings) would be significant if we could lift people from the gutter by educating them.
Sadly, spending tax payer's funds on criminals whilst others have to pay £9000 a year to go to Uni will not go down well with voters in the short term, which is a shame, as the long term outlook (and cost savings) would be significant if we could lift people from the gutter by educating them.
All well intentioned I am sure, but the problem as I see it is without the will to learn, and the will to comply with rules/laws it would be a waste of time.
We could take a multiple offender (I am specifically talking car crime at the moment) instead of a ban/fine send them to prison and teach them to drive properly (in reality it would be teach them to pass a test), educate them on laws regarding tax/insurance/speed limits etc and set them free.
How many would then only drive if everything was fully legal knowing the costs involved and how many would continue to drive tax/insurance free ?
In the meantime other youngsters with a sense of personal responsibility are paying (or their parents are) to drive legally.
We could take a multiple offender (I am specifically talking car crime at the moment) instead of a ban/fine send them to prison and teach them to drive properly (in reality it would be teach them to pass a test), educate them on laws regarding tax/insurance/speed limits etc and set them free.
How many would then only drive if everything was fully legal knowing the costs involved and how many would continue to drive tax/insurance free ?
In the meantime other youngsters with a sense of personal responsibility are paying (or their parents are) to drive legally.
Yes, 10PS, but as you know the tabloid-fuelled voters howl if anyone suggests anything other than thumbscrews for any type of offender (except for the middle class motorist who drives through a village at 40, such being his* fundamental human right). Taking the broad and long view of enhancing social peace through tackling offender behaviour and its causes attracts zero votes.
* or her, but usually his
* or her, but usually his
Breadvan72 said:
Yes, 10PS, but as you know the tabloid-fuelled voters howl if anyone suggests anything other than thumbscrews
That's probably me, at least a bit 
. Seems to me that a sizeable proportion of the population will only avoid certain types of behaviour if there are disincentives that are sufficiently unpleasant to them. Career criminals apparently view occasional prison time as an occupational hazard which does rather suggest that it's not doing the trick, maybe education robustly backed up with stricter regimes and conditions, to keep us right-wingers happy, would be an improvement all round.For the OP, it's pretty obvious that repeated bans are pretty pointless for people that were driving without licences anyway so maybe prison + education is an option; I'm sure some on here would confirm that prison is a harsher punishment for a generally law-abiding punter who breaches the RTA than it is for a seasoned criminal.
Breadvan72 said:
Yes, 10PS, but as you know the tabloid-fuelled voters howl if anyone suggests anything other than thumbscrews for any type of offender (except for the middle class motorist who drives through a village at 40, such being his* fundamental human right). Taking the broad and long view of enhancing social peace through tackling offender behaviour and its causes attracts zero votes.
* or her, but usually his
Your reference to those as 'tabloid fuelled' exhibits a similar black and white attitude to those with different opinions. Not sure it is any different to their attitude to criminals, ie, tarring them all with the same brush. * or her, but usually his
More ideas of pandering to those who blatantly break the law! 
I'm sick and tired of those who think the Law doesn't apply to them being left off with Mickey Mouse punishments and being given freebies for doing wrong!
Driving whilst banned/uninsured? - If it can be proven that they blatantly know they are banned/uninsured then chop both of their legs off and give them no rights to any disability benefits or perks!
They won't drive whilst banned/uninsured again! (Unless they get a hand controlled car, but for a second offence both their arms would be chopped off!).
A bit extreme? - Yes, but it would bloody well work, it would make people think twice about attempting it and there's definitely no pandering going on!
(By the same token, the punishment for car thieves should also be loss of both legs with no rights to any disability benefits or perks and they should have: "CAR THIEF" tattooed across their foreheads!)
I'm sick and tired of those who think the Law doesn't apply to them being left off with Mickey Mouse punishments and being given freebies for doing wrong!
Driving whilst banned/uninsured? - If it can be proven that they blatantly know they are banned/uninsured then chop both of their legs off and give them no rights to any disability benefits or perks!
They won't drive whilst banned/uninsured again! (Unless they get a hand controlled car, but for a second offence both their arms would be chopped off!).
A bit extreme? - Yes, but it would bloody well work, it would make people think twice about attempting it and there's definitely no pandering going on!
(By the same token, the punishment for car thieves should also be loss of both legs with no rights to any disability benefits or perks and they should have: "CAR THIEF" tattooed across their foreheads!)
Terminator X said:
Really OP?! Send em to prison ffs that'll learn em 
TX.
Didn't you read the whole OP? That's what I said. Don't ban them as it's counter productive but jail them as it's a consequence for their actions. While in Jail train them to drive properly and safely. If they drive dangerously or unisured again Jail them again. I wouldn't say that's me sounding like a bleeding heart liberal.TX.
4rephill said:
More ideas of pandering to those who blatantly break the law!
I'm sick and tired of those who think the Law doesn't apply to them being left off with Mickey Mouse punishments and being given freebies for doing wrong!
Driving whilst banned/uninsured? - If it can be proven that they blatantly know they are banned/uninsured then chop both of their legs off and give them no rights to any disability benefits or perks!
They won't drive whilst banned/uninsured again! (Unless they get a hand controlled car, but for a second offence both their arms would be chopped off!).
A bit extreme? - Yes, but it would bloody well work, it would make people think twice about attempting it and there's definitely no pandering going on!
(By the same token, the punishment for car thieves should also be loss of both legs with no rights to any disability benefits or perks and they should have: "CAR THIEF" tattooed across their foreheads!)
Actually that approach was proven not to work. In Derry the paramilitaries would shoot joyriders in the ankles, knees and hips or smash their legs with sledge hammers for being an antisocial element within the community. The defiant wee buggers would come straight out of hospital, hobble down the street on their crutches and steal another car just to let the terrorists know they wouldn't be beaten.I'm sick and tired of those who think the Law doesn't apply to them being left off with Mickey Mouse punishments and being given freebies for doing wrong!
Driving whilst banned/uninsured? - If it can be proven that they blatantly know they are banned/uninsured then chop both of their legs off and give them no rights to any disability benefits or perks!
They won't drive whilst banned/uninsured again! (Unless they get a hand controlled car, but for a second offence both their arms would be chopped off!).
A bit extreme? - Yes, but it would bloody well work, it would make people think twice about attempting it and there's definitely no pandering going on!
(By the same token, the punishment for car thieves should also be loss of both legs with no rights to any disability benefits or perks and they should have: "CAR THIEF" tattooed across their foreheads!)
Tannedbaldhead said:
Actually that approach was proven not to work. In Derry the paramilitaries would shoot joyriders in the ankles, knees and hips or smash their legs with sledge hammers for being an antisocial element within the community. The defiant wee buggers would come straight out of hospital, hobble down the street on their crutches and steal another car just to let the terrorists know they wouldn't be beaten.
Might be different if they aimed significantly higher... 10 Pence Short said:
It's a conversation with wider application. My opinion has long been that we should invest in our criminals and prisoners, in particular. Instead of simply keeping relatively harmless criminals segregated from society, we should use the opportunity of a captive audience (pun totally intended) to at least try and remove the drivers of the offending. At the very least, prisoners should leave prison being able to read and write to the standards you'd expect of a 10 or 11 year old, for example.
Sadly, spending tax payer's funds on criminals whilst others have to pay £9000 a year to go to Uni will not go down well with voters in the short term, which is a shame, as the long term outlook (and cost savings) would be significant if we could lift people from the gutter by educating them.
Even as a supporter of penal reform this is a post that made me stop and think, thank you. On consideration I agree.Sadly, spending tax payer's funds on criminals whilst others have to pay £9000 a year to go to Uni will not go down well with voters in the short term, which is a shame, as the long term outlook (and cost savings) would be significant if we could lift people from the gutter by educating them.
Given that keeping a prisoner costs us all c.£40K/yr anyway, that putative £9K is only ~3months of notional 'sentnce cost'. If those imprisoned were given such support / left with counselling and/or education to such value aimed at returning them to society 'uplifted' as you put it - then I'm for it.
4rephill said:
More ideas of pandering to those who blatantly break the law!
I'm sick and tired of those who think the Law doesn't apply to them being left off with Mickey Mouse punishments and being given freebies for doing wrong!
Driving whilst banned/uninsured? - If it can be proven that they blatantly know they are banned/uninsured then chop both of their legs off and give them no rights to any disability benefits or perks!
They won't drive whilst banned/uninsured again! (Unless they get a hand controlled car, but for a second offence both their arms would be chopped off!).
A bit extreme? - Yes, but it would bloody well work, it would make people think twice about attempting it and there's definitely no pandering going on!
(By the same token, the punishment for car thieves should also be loss of both legs with no rights to any disability benefits or perks and they should have: "CAR THIEF" tattooed across their foreheads!)
I think you should have "mental" tattooed across your forehead tbh.I'm sick and tired of those who think the Law doesn't apply to them being left off with Mickey Mouse punishments and being given freebies for doing wrong!
Driving whilst banned/uninsured? - If it can be proven that they blatantly know they are banned/uninsured then chop both of their legs off and give them no rights to any disability benefits or perks!
They won't drive whilst banned/uninsured again! (Unless they get a hand controlled car, but for a second offence both their arms would be chopped off!).
A bit extreme? - Yes, but it would bloody well work, it would make people think twice about attempting it and there's definitely no pandering going on!
(By the same token, the punishment for car thieves should also be loss of both legs with no rights to any disability benefits or perks and they should have: "CAR THIEF" tattooed across their foreheads!)
The type of person who drives without a licence or insurance is going to make a fking dreadful driver even when they have a licence and insurance. Because it's not a question of talent or ability, but a question of attitude.
They're selfish self absorbeds who put their own convenience and desires ahead of everyone else on the road. Does anyone thing they are going to have a character change just because they get a licence and insurance. They'll be exactly the same, driving drunk, jumping red lights, crossing the solid white line to overtake and generally being complete bell ends.
king dreadful driver even when they have a licence and insurance. Because it's not a question of talent or ability, but a question of attitude.They're selfish self absorbed
s who put their own convenience and desires ahead of everyone else on the road. Does anyone thing they are going to have a character change just because they get a licence and insurance. They'll be exactly the same, driving drunk, jumping red lights, crossing the solid white line to overtake and generally being complete bell ends. Tannedbaldhead said:
What I'd do is scrap the ban, give them free driving lessons, get them through their test and have them properly trained to drive licenced.
So do they get a free car as well or just free driving lessons?Most of these scrotes do seem to be able to grasp the basics of driving, it's the lack of car that is more often a problem.
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