2 Possible reasons to Challenge PCN, should I use both?
Discussion
Went out to my car on Sunday which was parked on a single yellow line next to a resident parking bay.
There is a sign on the residents parking bay which states "Mon-Fri 8:30am - 6:30pm, Saturday 8:30am to 1:30pm" Under that a separate sign says
"Match days only Additional controls Mon-Fri 6:30am - 8:30pm, Saturday 1:30pm - 4:30pm, Sun & Bank Hols noon - 4:30pm"
The ticket was issued at 13:07 on Sunday. Arsenal were at home, so permit conditions do apply (Sunday noon - 4:30).
However, there is no sign indicating that there is a change to the single yellow line rules with regard to Arsenal home games.
That was going to be the basis of the appeal.
I parked there on Saturday evening. It's a small 3 car bay, however bad parking means often only two cars get in it. If I'd parked in the bay it would have left a very small space which someone would try to get in and possibly fail. So I parked on the single yellow, not realising Arsenal were at home on Sunday.
However, when reading the PCN I've discovered there is a mistake. On the ticket the colour is described as yellow. The car is actually white. It's a little dirty but not so as you'd mistake the colour. Is that a reason to challenge? If so, should I keep that in my pocket in case the single yellow appeal fails?
There is a sign on the residents parking bay which states "Mon-Fri 8:30am - 6:30pm, Saturday 8:30am to 1:30pm" Under that a separate sign says
"Match days only Additional controls Mon-Fri 6:30am - 8:30pm, Saturday 1:30pm - 4:30pm, Sun & Bank Hols noon - 4:30pm"
The ticket was issued at 13:07 on Sunday. Arsenal were at home, so permit conditions do apply (Sunday noon - 4:30).
However, there is no sign indicating that there is a change to the single yellow line rules with regard to Arsenal home games.
That was going to be the basis of the appeal.
I parked there on Saturday evening. It's a small 3 car bay, however bad parking means often only two cars get in it. If I'd parked in the bay it would have left a very small space which someone would try to get in and possibly fail. So I parked on the single yellow, not realising Arsenal were at home on Sunday.
However, when reading the PCN I've discovered there is a mistake. On the ticket the colour is described as yellow. The car is actually white. It's a little dirty but not so as you'd mistake the colour. Is that a reason to challenge? If so, should I keep that in my pocket in case the single yellow appeal fails?
Fairly sure the colour would not be a get out of fine card, if the registration number is correct.
As for the yellow line appeal, is your grounds for appeal that you were not aware it was a match day ?
I would agree that it should be clear to anyone parking which specific days the Sunday rule applied as visitor to the area would probably not know (unless attending the match).
However, is ignorance a defence ?
As for the yellow line appeal, is your grounds for appeal that you were not aware it was a match day ?
I would agree that it should be clear to anyone parking which specific days the Sunday rule applied as visitor to the area would probably not know (unless attending the match).
However, is ignorance a defence ?
Corpulent Tosser said:
Fairly sure the colour would not be a get out of fine card, if the registration number is correct.
As for the yellow line appeal, is your grounds for appeal that you were not aware it was a match day ?
I would agree that it should be clear to anyone parking which specific days the Sunday rule applied as visitor to the area would probably not know (unless attending the match).
However, is ignorance a defence ?
The signs regarding match day are clear. There is also a number to call for information, so you could phone if you weren't sure. However these signs only apply to the residents parking bays. I wasn't parked in one of those. I was parked on a single yellow line which has no signs regarding times or variances of enforcement, so I took it to be the usual 7pm-7am, all day Sunday rules. Which could, of course, be wrong.As for the yellow line appeal, is your grounds for appeal that you were not aware it was a match day ?
I would agree that it should be clear to anyone parking which specific days the Sunday rule applied as visitor to the area would probably not know (unless attending the match).
However, is ignorance a defence ?
ging84 said:
i don't think parking controls which rely on people knowing the schedule of a local football team are likely to be in anyway legally enforceable
This is interesting. Do you have any links to where I could find out more?I should add that I am a resident of the area, although not an Arsenal fan.
Due to the vagaries, mistakes and jobsworthyness of Islington Council I do not know if I have a resident's permit for the car.
Events so far.
Bought a new car before selling the old one. So I went on line and signed up for a "New Residents Permit" on the basis that this was a New Residents Permit, rather than a New Resident's permit.
This got me a printed permit valid for two weeks until I sent proof of ownership of the car and proof of residency. Which I did within 24 hours.
Then I heard nothing. Sent proofs again. Nothing.
Double checked and realised I'd bought a permit that I shouldn't have and actually a new car can be added to an existing permit.
This can't be done online, you have to go to the office which is open Monday to Friday 9-5, so took time off work. I also competed the form for a refund of what I'd paid for the incorrect permit (which I have a copy of) and the refund is sent by cheque three weeks later.
Discovered that although I can have a permit covering two cars I can only park one of them at a time, so forced to commute to work in the car.
Return to Parking Office to spend £80 on visitor vouchers so that I can park my car which now has a valid resident's permit outside my house.
2nd May I received an email stating "Thanks for sending the supporting document for your permit, the permit is live and you can park your car in the resident parking bay in your zone. Remember, we are operating a paperless permit system as such you don’t need any paper permit to be displayed in your car.
Your permit account number is XXXXXXXX (you will need this number to renew your permit online)"
This relates to the permit I bought which wasn't valid and have applied for a refund.
On the same day I receive a partially gibberish email from the head of parking responding to my complaints about the whole thing, using about 1,000 words but telling me nothing.
Due to the vagaries, mistakes and jobsworthyness of Islington Council I do not know if I have a resident's permit for the car.
Events so far.
Bought a new car before selling the old one. So I went on line and signed up for a "New Residents Permit" on the basis that this was a New Residents Permit, rather than a New Resident's permit.
This got me a printed permit valid for two weeks until I sent proof of ownership of the car and proof of residency. Which I did within 24 hours.
Then I heard nothing. Sent proofs again. Nothing.
Double checked and realised I'd bought a permit that I shouldn't have and actually a new car can be added to an existing permit.
This can't be done online, you have to go to the office which is open Monday to Friday 9-5, so took time off work. I also competed the form for a refund of what I'd paid for the incorrect permit (which I have a copy of) and the refund is sent by cheque three weeks later.
Discovered that although I can have a permit covering two cars I can only park one of them at a time, so forced to commute to work in the car.
Return to Parking Office to spend £80 on visitor vouchers so that I can park my car which now has a valid resident's permit outside my house.
2nd May I received an email stating "Thanks for sending the supporting document for your permit, the permit is live and you can park your car in the resident parking bay in your zone. Remember, we are operating a paperless permit system as such you don’t need any paper permit to be displayed in your car.
Your permit account number is XXXXXXXX (you will need this number to renew your permit online)"
This relates to the permit I bought which wasn't valid and have applied for a refund.
On the same day I receive a partially gibberish email from the head of parking responding to my complaints about the whole thing, using about 1,000 words but telling me nothing.
Hackney said:
Snowboy said:
You weren't parked in the residnts bay.
You were parked on the yellow line.
What were the rules for the yellow line?
I don't know. There is no sign specific to the yellow line.You were parked on the yellow line.
What were the rules for the yellow line?
Is it possible the sign you thought was for the residents parking bays was for the yellow line?
Did you look any further up and down the street for parking restrictions on the yellow line?
Hackney said:
I was parked on a single yellow line which has no signs regarding times or variances of enforcement, so I took it to be the usual 7pm-7am, all day Sunday rules.
Is there such a rule? I didn't think there was any such thing as a default "unless signed otherwise" type of rule for the times a single yellow line is in force.Snowboy said:
There should be.
Is it possible the sign you thought was for the residents parking bays was for the yellow line?
Did you look any further up and down the street for parking restrictions on the yellow line?
This is the sign.Is it possible the sign you thought was for the residents parking bays was for the yellow line?
Did you look any further up and down the street for parking restrictions on the yellow line?
this is the sign
And if you zoom out a bit I was parked in front of the Audi A3 in the picture
Are you in a controlled parking zone? in which case the sign for the yellow lines could be 3 miles away.
CPZs
Council leaflet
CPZ times are also affected by match days
CPZs
Council leaflet
CPZ times are also affected by match days
Edited by speedking31 on Tuesday 6th May 13:42
Looks like the CPZ rules would cover it.
I might appeal on the off chance, no way of checking whether the "next match" information was up to date when I drove past it (assuming it's at the bottom of the street) which I passed 18 hours before I got the parking ticket.
Not sure why there's a one car length single yellow there at all really, it may as well be a resident bay as the rules are effectively the same.
I might appeal on the off chance, no way of checking whether the "next match" information was up to date when I drove past it (assuming it's at the bottom of the street) which I passed 18 hours before I got the parking ticket.
Not sure why there's a one car length single yellow there at all really, it may as well be a resident bay as the rules are effectively the same.
Off topic but how the hell did they ever get away with CPZs? Its just a blatant scam to confuse the motorist. Would the parking bays not come under the CPZ as well? why is there a local plate for the bay and not one for the yellow line. b
d ahole fking millitant councils, canvasing for my vote as well they are, wkers.
d ahole fking millitant councils, canvasing for my vote as well they are, wkers.What is it with these bloody restricted parking on crappy football days.
We have a nice new shiny shopping centre with John Lewis and other large stores + restaurants etc. The sign in the car park says that parking is limited to two hours on match days.
Now our crappy team is in some god only knows what league so how would you know it was a match day, and why fk shouldn't you be able to take lunch and a leisurely shop (assuming you are a women) and there is no way you could do that in two hours.
Absolutely mental, councils populated by frogs that got out of the box.
We have a nice new shiny shopping centre with John Lewis and other large stores + restaurants etc. The sign in the car park says that parking is limited to two hours on match days.
Now our crappy team is in some god only knows what league so how would you know it was a match day, and why f
k shouldn't you be able to take lunch and a leisurely shop (assuming you are a women) and there is no way you could do that in two hours.Absolutely mental, councils populated by frogs that got out of the box.
Appeal denied.
"The Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) was issued because you were parked on a single yellow line within a controlled parking zone (CPZ) during restricted hours"
The sign relating to residents parking bays (and therefore the single yellow line operation) states "Mon-Fri 8:30am - 6:30pm, Saturday 8:30am to 1:30pm" Under that a separate sign says
"Match days only Additional controls Mon-Fri 6:30am - 8:30pm, Saturday 1:30pm - 4:30pm, Sun & Bank Hols noon - 4:30pm"
Which makes no sense any more.
Saturday 3pm KO then the parking restriction ends 20 minutes before the end of the game.
Saturday 12:45 KO then the parking restriction ends almost two hours after the game has finished
Saturday 5:30 KO the restriction ends with the game only half way through
"The Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) was issued because you were parked on a single yellow line within a controlled parking zone (CPZ) during restricted hours"
The sign relating to residents parking bays (and therefore the single yellow line operation) states "Mon-Fri 8:30am - 6:30pm, Saturday 8:30am to 1:30pm" Under that a separate sign says
"Match days only Additional controls Mon-Fri 6:30am - 8:30pm, Saturday 1:30pm - 4:30pm, Sun & Bank Hols noon - 4:30pm"
Which makes no sense any more.
Saturday 3pm KO then the parking restriction ends 20 minutes before the end of the game.
Saturday 12:45 KO then the parking restriction ends almost two hours after the game has finished
Saturday 5:30 KO the restriction ends with the game only half way through
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