Question for Speedcop
Discussion
You wrote:-
Much snippage
'and then later being complained about by the likes of YOU!
I didn't join the job to be popular, I joined it to uphold the law...and you don't like the laws of this land...find another land....
Some people... '
Not trying to start a flame war or anything but what do you mean 'the likes of YOU!'? Really I am interested, it amused me more than anything else so no hard feelings.
Much snippage
'and then later being complained about by the likes of YOU!
I didn't join the job to be popular, I joined it to uphold the law...and you don't like the laws of this land...find another land....
Some people... '
Not trying to start a flame war or anything but what do you mean 'the likes of YOU!'? Really I am interested, it amused me more than anything else so no hard feelings.
Interesting comment "if you don't like the laws, then [go away]".
I always thought that the laws were fluid and changeable, not immutable absolutes, and that should society deem a law to be no longer relevant or appropriate, it would be modified / removed. That's what has happened throughout history, and seems quite logical, really.
I didn't realise that we've completely lost influence over the laws in this country...then again, who am I kidding - the governments recently have done whatever they've wanted to, almost regardless of the popular consensus...so it's no surprise to hear the "authorities" espousing that sort of viewpoint. Saddening, really, given we are apparently the home of modern democracy in the world.
I always thought that the laws were fluid and changeable, not immutable absolutes, and that should society deem a law to be no longer relevant or appropriate, it would be modified / removed. That's what has happened throughout history, and seems quite logical, really.
I didn't realise that we've completely lost influence over the laws in this country...then again, who am I kidding - the governments recently have done whatever they've wanted to, almost regardless of the popular consensus...so it's no surprise to hear the "authorities" espousing that sort of viewpoint. Saddening, really, given we are apparently the home of modern democracy in the world.
minimax said:
I wonder, speed (goes for any other cop as well!) whether you like the laws of the land that you have to uphold? and if you didn't would you use 'discretion' or would you hand in you truncheon (ooh err
) and seek alternative employment? this has always interested me
Any that i dont like, and theres a few....then i use discretion.
Its the same as 'speed' sites. If i dont agree with them then you certainly wont see me there.
We do have morals
Saw the original artical on an American website (Jerry Pournelle) his comment was:-
'And now the end of civilization: the Mother of Parliaments, the fountain of civilized democratic government, has fallen, and there will be no longer anything to look up to. America becomes the fountain of freedom? God help us.'
'And now the end of civilization: the Mother of Parliaments, the fountain of civilized democratic government, has fallen, and there will be no longer anything to look up to. America becomes the fountain of freedom? God help us.'
Tonyrec said:
I wonder, speed
Any that i dont like, and theres a few....then i use discretion.
Its the same as 'speed' sites. If i dont agree with them then you certainly wont see me there.
We do have morals
that is the answer I was hoping for from you tonyrec
how about cops as a whole? minimax said:
that is the answer I was hoping for from you tonyrec
We can only comment as individuals. If you want the official line, ring the press office at your local HQ.
I'm with Tonyrec on this one - there are laws I don't agree with (like having to escort members of the BNP into a rally so they don't get lynched), but if I'm given a lawful order, I get on with it.
I try and use my discretion to the best of my ability.
I agree with tony, there are some laws which quite frankly I don't agree with.
I will use discretion, but if I uphold the law I try my utmost to abide by it.
As ever, the best tool on our belt is discretion. Its amazing what discretion and common sense policing can do.
Would I knowingly break the law or do something 'corrupt' the answer is emphatically NO. As Tony said, morals are right up there. (On the list of personal standards that is
)
I will use discretion, but if I uphold the law I try my utmost to abide by it.
As ever, the best tool on our belt is discretion. Its amazing what discretion and common sense policing can do.
Would I knowingly break the law or do something 'corrupt' the answer is emphatically NO. As Tony said, morals are right up there. (On the list of personal standards that is
)Some sensible posts.
The law was never, initially, designed to cater for any and all variations and eventualities. it was a set of rules and guidance designed to assist society in punishing those who have done wrong, through the courts. Over time, various judgements and counter-judgements have refined and improved that original set of laws.
Recently, however, and this is not restricted just to laws, the governments of the day have sought to specify exactly what you can/can't do, and have moved from guiding laws to the far more soundbite-friendly "black-and-white" view of law, which is simplistic at best and dangerously draconian at worst.
As a result, you are getting an increasing proportion of society who are viewing some laws as irrelevancies, no longer appropriate to the complex society we live in. These people, including (I believe) some who are employed to uphold the law, are finding that instead of reasoned debate and modification of the law, such dissent is being met by ever-more draconian and desparate reinforcement of that law, and ever-more vocal and desparate statements of why the law is still valid.
Following this logic, it becomes apparent that those in power, while following the letter of their remit as elected government, are failing to follow the spirit of that election mandate. Which is a moral if not a legal abuse of power.
Draw your own conclusions as to what action is necessary...
The law was never, initially, designed to cater for any and all variations and eventualities. it was a set of rules and guidance designed to assist society in punishing those who have done wrong, through the courts. Over time, various judgements and counter-judgements have refined and improved that original set of laws.
Recently, however, and this is not restricted just to laws, the governments of the day have sought to specify exactly what you can/can't do, and have moved from guiding laws to the far more soundbite-friendly "black-and-white" view of law, which is simplistic at best and dangerously draconian at worst.
As a result, you are getting an increasing proportion of society who are viewing some laws as irrelevancies, no longer appropriate to the complex society we live in. These people, including (I believe) some who are employed to uphold the law, are finding that instead of reasoned debate and modification of the law, such dissent is being met by ever-more draconian and desparate reinforcement of that law, and ever-more vocal and desparate statements of why the law is still valid.
Following this logic, it becomes apparent that those in power, while following the letter of their remit as elected government, are failing to follow the spirit of that election mandate. Which is a moral if not a legal abuse of power.
Draw your own conclusions as to what action is necessary...
Wacky Racer said:
Who is "speed" cop?
The "new" name for Street
I think he has changed it back to Street Cop
Perhaps he read Wildy's post and realised she has worse to offer 
Speaking of Wildy .. so far she has not "twazaked" me over that post I made about her
She still made a fuss of me when I got home anyway.
Sir,
I personally have always found that if I dealt with someone as I would have wanted to be dealt with myself, I rarely go wrong.
By the same token, if I was lippy to a police officer as a young man, I would expect to recieve what is coming to me, and would probably deserve it.
I think the problem comes in the fact that members of the public want the police officer to be polite, respectful and professional at all times, no matter how they (the public) actually act.
Now that's wrong in my opinion. If a member of the public wishes to argue the toss with me, they will be going in the Report on Summons book. If they are willing to take on advice and reasoned arguement, I'm often happy to deal with them by means of a verbal caution 'flea in the ear'.
What I find strange to comprehend is when motorists start to be obstructive, end up getting arrested and then become totally shocked and outraged by how the situation develops.
I mean what did they expect would happen to them? I believe it's a mixture of naivety and self importance. The idea of 'I've never actually burgled a house, so you can't do anything to me constable' type of attitude.
I've often found that the most difficult people to deal with are the Guardian reading, tax paying, estate car driver who believes that the police are there to answer to him/her alone and no matter what motoring law they commit, it should be the 'real' criminals that I should be spending my time with.
It's a fall back to the Woolworths shop girl comments of "It's not my counter, i'm afraid"...
There are beat officers to deal with everyday stuff, CID to deal with more serious offences, dog handlers to find missing people, etc etc. My job and the job of other Road Policing Officers is to deal with 'motoring' matters and the infringements of the Road Traffic Law. The fact that it may not suit Mr Company Car man who has been stopped for a hundred and smiths on the M6, frankly doesn't concern me.
The standard of people's driving in the UK is at best average and at worst dreadful. Speed isn't the main factor by a long shot, but goes some way to adding to the totals. Poor lane discipline, lack of anticipation and awareness of ones surroundings and this in turn leads to drivers coming unstuck further down the road. This is where speed plays a part. You see if the driver was obeying the limit, the chances are he/she would have been able to react in time to the hazard that unfolded in front of them. However, as they are exceeding the limit and this is coupled with their lack of forward observation and planning...the results are catastrophic.
I personally have always found that if I dealt with someone as I would have wanted to be dealt with myself, I rarely go wrong.
By the same token, if I was lippy to a police officer as a young man, I would expect to recieve what is coming to me, and would probably deserve it.
I think the problem comes in the fact that members of the public want the police officer to be polite, respectful and professional at all times, no matter how they (the public) actually act.
Now that's wrong in my opinion. If a member of the public wishes to argue the toss with me, they will be going in the Report on Summons book. If they are willing to take on advice and reasoned arguement, I'm often happy to deal with them by means of a verbal caution 'flea in the ear'.
What I find strange to comprehend is when motorists start to be obstructive, end up getting arrested and then become totally shocked and outraged by how the situation develops.
I mean what did they expect would happen to them? I believe it's a mixture of naivety and self importance. The idea of 'I've never actually burgled a house, so you can't do anything to me constable' type of attitude.
I've often found that the most difficult people to deal with are the Guardian reading, tax paying, estate car driver who believes that the police are there to answer to him/her alone and no matter what motoring law they commit, it should be the 'real' criminals that I should be spending my time with.
It's a fall back to the Woolworths shop girl comments of "It's not my counter, i'm afraid"...
There are beat officers to deal with everyday stuff, CID to deal with more serious offences, dog handlers to find missing people, etc etc. My job and the job of other Road Policing Officers is to deal with 'motoring' matters and the infringements of the Road Traffic Law. The fact that it may not suit Mr Company Car man who has been stopped for a hundred and smiths on the M6, frankly doesn't concern me.
The standard of people's driving in the UK is at best average and at worst dreadful. Speed isn't the main factor by a long shot, but goes some way to adding to the totals. Poor lane discipline, lack of anticipation and awareness of ones surroundings and this in turn leads to drivers coming unstuck further down the road. This is where speed plays a part. You see if the driver was obeying the limit, the chances are he/she would have been able to react in time to the hazard that unfolded in front of them. However, as they are exceeding the limit and this is coupled with their lack of forward observation and planning...the results are catastrophic.
s2art said:
You wrote:-
Much snippage
'and then later being complained about by the likes of YOU!
I didn't join the job to be popular, I joined it to uphold the law...and you don't like the laws of this land...find another land....
Some people... '
Not trying to start a flame war or anything but what do you mean 'the likes of YOU!'? Really I am interested, it amused me more than anything else so no hard feelings.
I'm glad that I amuse you as the last thing I would want to do is upset you.
The likes of YOU...meant the following...
IIRC you mentioned the statement of "Why people don't have respect for the police"....
Lots and lots of people DO have respect for the police.
The vast majority of the public are decent law abiding people, who's only involvement with the police is when they commit a motoring offence. 99% of these incidents are dealt with by polite and professional police officers who then leave the motorist with the feeling of being dealt with fairly for the offence, regardless of how much it might cost them. The other type of people, who perhaps never get stopped or never commit offences still respect the police, because that is how they are conditioned and brought up by their parents. This can be reflected in the amount of scumy criminals who have scumy convict parents and live in shitty and smelly houses.
Then you have the proper criminals....who don't like the police as they hamper their criminal antics...Although they still respect the police as it becomes a strange game of cat and mouse. Perhaps you can only understand this if you are one of the players
AND FINALLY...there are the likes of YOU. Probably never been in trouble with the law for criminal offences, but have been given the occasional fixed penalty ticket. (I don't give a monkey's if you've never been stopped the analogy is the same). This final type of person believes he/she can do the job of the police far better than the police themselves. They believe as they pay for their taxes, insurance, cars etc etc they can drive how ever the hell they like and that the police should only deal with unemployed criminals. WRONG!
The crims have the same rights as you...
Whether the likes of YOU respect the police or not..it doesn't matter....You type (not you personally
)are neither the ultra decent law abider or either the all out criminal.... Street/Speed
Hi there ... cop of zero tolerance: Hope you do show "discretion" really!
I like this "Sir" bit.... No other profession can get so much feeling into this.
I have had the odd stop.... "ist this your car Sir and about 18 months ago on a trip to Brunstromia in the Moggie ..
"How fast does it go Sir
"Have you got your documents Sir
"Would you accompany me to the station Sir
It was classic stuff Admit .. it brought out the slightly childish streak in me! The Welsh chaps have no sense of humour at all 
Hasten to add ... was not breaking any laws at all - honestly thought they were admiring my beautiful beast of a Moggie at first....and it all got sorted out in a good humour at the cop shop!
True ... politeness usually begets politeness (unless you are a chav
If I got into trouble at school ... parents usually gave me more of the same
No doubt same would have applied if I had dared cheek the village cop - who was tall and awe-inspiring. In fact .. they used to use him in veiled threats as he was such a figure of spine-tingling authority
Perhaps this how far society has changed ... freedom of speech and more "self-importance" It is possibly because our youngsters are being brought up to think they are always "right and have a right to express themselves and that any one who upsets their feelings is raking away their dignity"
Modern people management skills
It is a very fine line between maintaining dignity whilst arresting and imposing discipline ....which is what criminals (and the normal Joe) expect....
Our BiB family members ... IG (who does not post on here) has commented on Paulie's site that "one is just supposed to nod in agreement to his acid lecture and count one's blessings"
IG ( my wife's cousin and the one based in Durham) once commented to me and on Paul's forum that he does make allowances for fear, guilt and defence mechanisms .. and that it is a case of using his judgement and senses for each individual case in the back of his car. He evensaid that perhaps it is the shock realisation that they may have been doing something dangerous which makes them go into denial.
But as he says .. case of reading each situation and applying common sense as it develops.
These are the ones pro-scams as a generalisation 
In other words ... back to our old pal COAST
Hope you do show "discretion" really! No Discretion said:
Sir,
I like this "Sir" bit.... No other profession can get so much feeling into this.
I have had the odd stop.... "ist this your car Sir and about 18 months ago on a trip to Brunstromia in the Moggie ..
"How fast does it go Sir
"Have you got your documents Sir
"Would you accompany me to the station Sir
It was classic stuff
Admit .. it brought out the slightly childish streak in me! The Welsh chaps have no sense of humour at all Hasten to add ... was not breaking any laws at all - honestly thought they were admiring my beautiful beast of a Moggie at first....and it all got sorted out in a good humour at the cop shop!
No Discretion said:
I personally have always found that if I dealt with someone as I would have wanted to be dealt with myself, I rarely go wrong.
True ... politeness usually begets politeness (unless you are a chav
No Discretion said:
By the same token, if I was lippy to a police officer as a young man, I would expect to recieve what is coming to me, and would probably deserve it.
If I got into trouble at school ... parents usually gave me more of the same
No doubt same would have applied if I had dared cheek the village cop - who was tall and awe-inspiring. In fact .. they used to use him in veiled threats as he was such a figure of spine-tingling authority
No Discretion said:
I think the problem comes in the fact that members of the public want the police officer to be polite, respectful and professional at all times, no matter how they (the public) actually act.
Perhaps this how far society has changed ... freedom of speech and more "self-importance" It is possibly because our youngsters are being brought up to think they are always "right and have a right to express themselves and that any one who upsets their feelings is raking away their dignity"
Modern people management skills
It is a very fine line between maintaining dignity whilst arresting and imposing discipline ....which is what criminals (and the normal Joe) expect....
Our BiB family members ... IG (who does not post on here) has commented on Paulie's site that "one is just supposed to nod in agreement to his acid lecture and count one's blessings"
No discretion said:
What I find strange to comprehend is when motorists start to be obstructive, end up getting arrested and then become totally shocked and outraged by how the situation develops.
IG ( my wife's cousin and the one based in Durham) once commented to me and on Paul's forum that he does make allowances for fear, guilt and defence mechanisms .. and that it is a case of using his judgement and senses for each individual case in the back of his car. He evensaid that perhaps it is the shock realisation that they may have been doing something dangerous which makes them go into denial.
But as he says .. case of reading each situation and applying common sense as it develops.
No Discretion said:
I've often found that the most difficult people to deal with are the Guardian reading, tax paying, estate car driver who believes that the police are there to answer to him/her alone and no matter what motoring law they commit, it should be the 'real' criminals that I should be spending my time with.
These are the ones pro-scams as a generalisation
No Discretion said:
The standard of people's driving in the UK is at best average and at worst dreadful. Speed isn't the main factor by a long shot, but goes some way to adding to the totals. Poor lane discipline, lack of anticipation and awareness of ones surroundings and this in turn leads to drivers coming unstuck further down the road. This is where speed plays a part. You see if the driver was obeying the limit, the chances are he/she would have been able to react in time to the hazard that unfolded in front of them. However, as they are exceeding the limit and this is coupled with their lack of forward observation and planning...the results are catastrophic.
In other words ... back to our old pal COAST
'The other type of people, who perhaps never get stopped or never commit offences still respect the police, because that is how they are conditioned and brought up by their parents. This can be reflected in the amount of scumy criminals who have scumy convict parents and live in shitty and smelly houses. '
Now this really made me laugh!!
Now this really made me laugh!!
Streetcop said:
You wrote:-
Much snippage
'and then later being complained about by the likes of YOU!
I didn't join the job to be popular, I joined it to uphold the law...and you don't like the laws of this land...find another land....
Some people... '
Not trying to start a flame war or anything but what do you mean 'the likes of YOU!'? Really I am interested, it amused me more than anything else so no hard feelings.
More snippage
AND FINALLY...there are the likes of YOU. Probably never been in trouble with the law for criminal offences, but have been given the occasional fixed penalty ticket. (I don't give a monkey's if you've never been stopped the analogy is the same). This final type of person believes he/she can do the job of the police far better than the police themselves. They believe as they pay for their taxes, insurance, cars etc etc they can drive how ever the hell they like and that the police should only deal with unemployed criminals. WRONG!
The crims have the same rights as you...
Whether the likes of YOU respect the police or not..it doesn't matter....You type (not you personally
Street/Speed
Well I now see where you are coming from. But YOU are wrong about my opinions in just almost every particular, other than your last statement, yup I have been done for speeding a few times.
I think you are wrong about 'the likes of me' respecting the police or not mattering at all. Of course it matters as my 'type' represents the vast majority.
Do you really think it doesnt matter if the majority of the public get a poor impression of the Police?
A combination of some badly behaved Policemen coupled to Blunkett/NuLabs illiberal, nay Stalinist, regulation bonanza is doing more harm than you seem to think.
Almost forgot to say, I also work within the Criminal Justice System, actually supporting the Police.
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