Inheritance/Estates and Deaths
Discussion
Hi All,
Sadly a little over a week ago, a friend of mine died, 3 weeks after his marriage to another friend. Our circle of friends is obviously upset at this, but are rallying round to help her.
Now, yesterday his mother tried to kill herself (OD on Anti-Depressants and a hot bath), latest news this evening is that she was awake, but not responding well. She had a GCS of 3 on admittance, and signs of heart & lung failure, though supposedly she is off ventilation now.
The question I have is this. Assuming his father is no longer around (I don't know a huge detail about his family background) then what would happen to his mother's estate? I'm assuming no will, or a will that leaves everything to him. Would it end up going into his estate, and therefore to his next of kin (his wife)?
They were living in a house owned by his mother and her sister (I believe they were caring for an elderly relative, who has subsequently passed on, as they have a 14 year old dog they were caring for too!), so I would imagine there's a decent chunk of money involved which my friend's wife could utilise (there are some credit cards and a car on finance).
We're not sure if there is any life insurance that would pay out though I believe he may have been working for a local authority, but I would imagine that the finance & credit cards will resolve themselves without any penalty to her assuming his estate is zero or negative balance. Obviously if there's money if his mother doesn't survive, this may make a difference, as would if there was life insurance that pays out.
Sadly a little over a week ago, a friend of mine died, 3 weeks after his marriage to another friend. Our circle of friends is obviously upset at this, but are rallying round to help her.
Now, yesterday his mother tried to kill herself (OD on Anti-Depressants and a hot bath), latest news this evening is that she was awake, but not responding well. She had a GCS of 3 on admittance, and signs of heart & lung failure, though supposedly she is off ventilation now.
The question I have is this. Assuming his father is no longer around (I don't know a huge detail about his family background) then what would happen to his mother's estate? I'm assuming no will, or a will that leaves everything to him. Would it end up going into his estate, and therefore to his next of kin (his wife)?
They were living in a house owned by his mother and her sister (I believe they were caring for an elderly relative, who has subsequently passed on, as they have a 14 year old dog they were caring for too!), so I would imagine there's a decent chunk of money involved which my friend's wife could utilise (there are some credit cards and a car on finance).
We're not sure if there is any life insurance that would pay out though I believe he may have been working for a local authority, but I would imagine that the finance & credit cards will resolve themselves without any penalty to her assuming his estate is zero or negative balance. Obviously if there's money if his mother doesn't survive, this may make a difference, as would if there was life insurance that pays out.
Edited by Cyberprog on Sunday 1st June 22:04
IANAL, but my understanding from dealing with my Dad's estate is that, unless there is a correctly set up will stating otherwise, the mother's estate (IF she dies) would be divided equally between her children because her spouse has pre-deceased her. Your friend's share would come to his estate, again assuming no other instructions in his will, and should then be passed on to his wife.
That's it in a nutshell, although it depends on what's in the will. Also I'm assuming you're in England, not Scotland, because Confirmation up far north is very different to Probate.
That's it in a nutshell, although it depends on what's in the will. Also I'm assuming you're in England, not Scotland, because Confirmation up far north is very different to Probate.
Mike_Mac said:
IANAL, but my understanding from dealing with my Dad's estate is that, unless there is a correctly set up will stating otherwise, the mother's estate (IF she dies) would be divided equally between her children because her spouse has pre-deceased her. Your friend's share would come to his estate, again assuming no other instructions in his will, and should then be passed on to his wife.
That's it in a nutshell, although it depends on what's in the will. Also I'm assuming you're in England, not Scotland, because Confirmation up far north is very different to Probate.
Are you sure this is correct? If the friend passed away before his mother, I don't believe his estate would benefit from the mothers will. If he was to die after his mother, then his estate would benefit, even though he would already be gone. That's it in a nutshell, although it depends on what's in the will. Also I'm assuming you're in England, not Scotland, because Confirmation up far north is very different to Probate.
GT03ROB said:
Are you sure this is correct? If the friend passed away before his mother, I don't believe his estate would benefit from the mothers will. If he was to die after his mother, then his estate would benefit, even though he would already be gone.
Always been my understanding that you need to be alive. Otherwise, if the mother died in say 3 years after her sons probate had been settled what would happen? I know the other way exists.. My will states my wife has to outlive me by 30 days to inherit to avoid the fatal car crash type issue where we both dieGT03ROB said:
Are you sure this is correct? If the friend passed away before his mother, I don't believe his estate would benefit from the mothers will. If he was to die after his mother, then his estate would benefit, even though he would already be gone.
My thinking was that even though he pre-deceased his mother his wife should still receive something, because his estate has not yet been through probate. However - I now think that was wrong having dug into it a bit more - if he has died before her then his siblings are the sole beneficiaries, unless something specific is stipulated in the will.
Edited by Mike_Mac on Monday 2nd June 06:57
What does the mother's will say about other recipients? Was everything to be left to her son?
If so, then her estate would be treated as being intestate, and the laws of intestacy would be followed - http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/relationships_...
"The following people have no right to inherit where someone dies without leaving a will:
...relations by marriage"
If not, then his section will be ignored, and everything else disbursed according to the will, with anything that would have been his either put back in the pot to be shared by proportion or ending up with whoever was down for the residue.
The remaining recipients can choose to vary the will, and have the son's share be passed to the wife. "It's what she would have wanted..." - except that if the son was the last remaining living relative, then you're going to have to persuade the crown of that...
If so, then her estate would be treated as being intestate, and the laws of intestacy would be followed - http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/relationships_...
"The following people have no right to inherit where someone dies without leaving a will:
...relations by marriage"
If not, then his section will be ignored, and everything else disbursed according to the will, with anything that would have been his either put back in the pot to be shared by proportion or ending up with whoever was down for the residue.
The remaining recipients can choose to vary the will, and have the son's share be passed to the wife. "It's what she would have wanted..." - except that if the son was the last remaining living relative, then you're going to have to persuade the crown of that...
TooMany2cvs said:
The remaining recipients can choose to vary the will, and have the son's share be passed to the wife. "It's what she would have wanted..." - except that if the son was the last remaining living relative, then you're going to have to persuade the crown of that...
- chuckles* considering the mother tried to pick a fight with his bride at the church, that's unlikely
Cyberprog said:
TooMany2cvs said:
The remaining recipients can choose to vary the will, and have the son's share be passed to the wife. "It's what she would have wanted..." - except that if the son was the last remaining living relative, then you're going to have to persuade the crown of that...
- chuckles* considering the mother tried to pick a fight with his bride at the church, that's unlikely
littleredrooster said:
At last - someone who offers more than another wild guess. There really is some utter nonsense written in SP&L these days.
FFS - if you don't know what you're talking about, keep your fingers away from the keyboard.
True, but it would be a boring place if you only got the right answer now wouldn't it! FFS - if you don't know what you're talking about, keep your fingers away from the keyboard.
For England and Wales & in simplistic terms:
If Mum had a Will, then the terms dictate distribution after all debts are paid.
If Mum has no Will, then the rules of intestacy apply, so:
Provided the facts are as stated in that: no husband, two children, then the children inherit 50/50... BUT, if in this case the Son predeceased,then his share will fall to HIS children (per stirpes) if any, but NOT to adult child's spouse (son's wife in this case).
Dependants can of course apply to the Courts if they believe they have a case (Inheritance Act 1975)
there is a simple guide here:
https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-w...
If Mum had a Will, then the terms dictate distribution after all debts are paid.
If Mum has no Will, then the rules of intestacy apply, so:
Provided the facts are as stated in that: no husband, two children, then the children inherit 50/50... BUT, if in this case the Son predeceased,then his share will fall to HIS children (per stirpes) if any, but NOT to adult child's spouse (son's wife in this case).
Dependants can of course apply to the Courts if they believe they have a case (Inheritance Act 1975)
there is a simple guide here:
https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-w...
3Dee said:
For England and Wales & in simplistic terms:
If Mum had a Will, then the terms dictate distribution after all debts are paid.
If Mum has no Will, then the rules of intestacy apply, so:
Provided the facts are as stated in that: no husband, two children, then the children inherit 50/50... BUT, if in this case the Son predeceased,then his share will fall to HIS children (per stirpes) if any, but NOT to adult child's spouse (son's wife in this case).
Dependants can of course apply to the Courts if they believe they have a case (Inheritance Act 1975)
there is a simple guide here:
https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-w...
No, sorry, don't know where the two children thing has come from - he was a only child. So assuming she had a will, would his share go into his estate? Otherwise, I guess his Wife is sadly SOL due to intestacy rules.If Mum had a Will, then the terms dictate distribution after all debts are paid.
If Mum has no Will, then the rules of intestacy apply, so:
Provided the facts are as stated in that: no husband, two children, then the children inherit 50/50... BUT, if in this case the Son predeceased,then his share will fall to HIS children (per stirpes) if any, but NOT to adult child's spouse (son's wife in this case).
Dependants can of course apply to the Courts if they believe they have a case (Inheritance Act 1975)
there is a simple guide here:
https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-w...
Cyberprog said:
No, sorry, don't know where the two children thing has come from - he was a only child. So assuming she had a will, would his share go into his estate? Otherwise, I guess his Wife is sadly SOL due to intestacy rules.
Because he was living in a house owned by his mum and his sister.Roo said:
Cyberprog said:
No, sorry, don't know where the two children thing has come from - he was a only child. So assuming she had a will, would his share go into his estate? Otherwise, I guess his Wife is sadly SOL due to intestacy rules.
Because he was living in a house owned by his mum and his sister.vonhosen said:
Roo said:
Cyberprog said:
No, sorry, don't know where the two children thing has come from - he was a only child. So assuming she had a will, would his share go into his estate? Otherwise, I guess his Wife is sadly SOL due to intestacy rules.
Because he was living in a house owned by his mum and his sister.Looks like I misread it the same as others.
Should have been clearer!littleredrooster said:
At last - someone who offers more than another wild guess. There really is some utter nonsense written in SP&L these days.
FFS - if you don't know what you're talking about, keep your fingers away from the keyboard.
If you want legal advice, pay for a lawyer. If you want consensus of opinion and personal experiences from others who have been in the same situation, post on PH.FFS - if you don't know what you're talking about, keep your fingers away from the keyboard.
That said, the first response was b*****cks
For Mum - If only child predeceases (with no natural or adopted children of the deceased child), and no spouse, then:
Parents in equal shares;
if no parents, then brothers and sisters of whole blood; If none, then children of...etc, then if none ....half-blood etc;
if no siblings, then grandparents of Mum;
If no grandparents, then Uncles and Aunts of whole blood, If none, then children of...etc, then if none ....half-blood etc;
See how this works?
If anyone in any of these categories (child, brother or sister of the whole blood or half blood, uncle or aunt of the whole blood or half blood of the deceased), who would have been entitled to a share of the estate but died before the deceased, leaving a child or children of their own, then those children will take (in equal shares) the share of the estate that their mother or father would have taken, if their mother or father had survived the deceased.
The same principle cascades down through the generations – if a child of a person who would have been entitled to a share of the estate but died before the deceased also dies before the deceased, leaving a child or children, then those children will take (in equal shares) the share that their mother or father would have taken if that parent had survived the deceased
if that lot is exhausted....THEN All of the estate goes to the Crown.
Parents in equal shares;
if no parents, then brothers and sisters of whole blood; If none, then children of...etc, then if none ....half-blood etc;
if no siblings, then grandparents of Mum;
If no grandparents, then Uncles and Aunts of whole blood, If none, then children of...etc, then if none ....half-blood etc;
See how this works?
If anyone in any of these categories (child, brother or sister of the whole blood or half blood, uncle or aunt of the whole blood or half blood of the deceased), who would have been entitled to a share of the estate but died before the deceased, leaving a child or children of their own, then those children will take (in equal shares) the share of the estate that their mother or father would have taken, if their mother or father had survived the deceased.
The same principle cascades down through the generations – if a child of a person who would have been entitled to a share of the estate but died before the deceased also dies before the deceased, leaving a child or children, then those children will take (in equal shares) the share that their mother or father would have taken if that parent had survived the deceased
if that lot is exhausted....THEN All of the estate goes to the Crown.
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