Serve the public trust?

[hertsbiker]

This is mean to be constructive thread, not a "knock the Bib" item. So please take it in the spirit it is meant, and not be abusive.

Why do I cheer when the criminals get away on TV "Police Chases". Why do I feel afraid of the Police. Why do I feel that they are never around when I want them, and never able to do anything when the going gets tough?

Whats wrong here? Aren't the Boys In Blue meant to be pillars of society? when did it go wrong, why don't we trust them? and more importantly - how can they regain the public trust?

[Tonyrec]

More PCSOs i believe.

Its funny really, but whenever i watch Police chases i always want the 'baddy' to get caught.

[Tonyrec]

Forgot to say, we are never around when you need us because we are doing needless paperwork....sometimes its pointless too.

Why dont the Government leave us alone to do the job that we are trained to do?

[hertsbiker]

Tonyrec said:

Forgot to say, we are never around when you need us because we are doing needless paperwork....sometimes its pointless too. Why dont the Government leave us alone to do the job that we are trained to do?

ahhhh. I think we have agreement on PH. Shame it can't extend beyond the realms of cyberspace.. ha, I still can't help cheering when the scrote gets away for a bit - until I remember it might be MY car or bike. Can't help it, it's been made part of my pysche to have this aversion to Police. Wonder how many others there are like me, and what we can do to get things back on a level?

[turbobloke]

hertsbiker said:

Can't help it, it's been made part of my pysche to have this aversion to Police. Wonder how many others there are like me, and what we can do to get things back on a level?

It was the same in parts of Canada until they removed all forms of automated speed enforcement from the roads, and it's worse in parts of Oz where they're still pursuing the same lunatic policy that's making things bad here.

Police-public relations, police recruitment, witness co-operation, and posts on PH are all badly hit by issues beyond the individual officer's control. How stupid can intelligent people get?

[8Pack]

The first crack in the relationship that I can remember was IIRC the early 1960's when the village "Bobbies" were done away with, the Police had then taken their first step to becoming remote.

My father at the time was a local councilor, and fought the then CC, who he had known all his life from a child, to a PC and on to CC. His fight with him over this issue was to no avail, but over time he has been shown to have been correct. The Police are now, too remote from the public.

[s2art]

8Pack said:

The first crack in the relationship that I can remember was IIRC the early 1960's when the village "Bobbies" were done away with, the Police had then taken their first step to becoming remote. My father at the time was a local councilor, and fought the then CC, who he had known all his life from a child, to a PC and on to CC. His fight with him over this issue was to no avail, but over time he has been shown to have been correct. The Police are now, too remote from the public.

I think the rot set in a little earlier, when large numbers of ex-military types joined the force with a rather different ethos. My father was a bobby at this time and he recalls the cultural difference between the older cops and the new ex-soldiers.
Agreed, the reduction of local police and the shift from beat based to car based patrols was a signifigant step towards remoteness.
The Tories reinforced the remoteness when they sold off the Police reserved housing in the eighties. Up to then all new estates had to have a house or two specifically for the police.
In recent times the introduction of Orwellian measures such as CCTV and Speed cameras, coupled to laws which are contrary to English traditions of fair play and freedom have put the police in the position of acting more like gendarmes (or Stasi!) than the wonderful police England used to have.

[Streetcop]

A bit like the old cowboy movies...you either cheer the bloke in white or the bloke dressed in black...

In my opinion, you are what you are inside and nothing changes that....you cheer for good against bad and you don't change...no matter how many speeding tickets you have...

If the speeding tickets were false and you were framed...then perhaps....but if you were caught fair and square, but you don't like the policies or the rules...tough cheese....(not you hertsbiker, just saying 'you'..

One of the reasons why the police aren't doing the things you would like them to is that they are dancing to the tune of the human rights act, the police and criminal evidence act, the race discrimination act, the health and safety act etc etc.....once all those things have been met and the bobbies aren't in danger of being sued, sacked or imprisoned...they can then set about dealing with the problem at hand..

As I've said before...the softly softly policing of now...(the police SERVICE) is all down to the do gooders and whiners/whingers of yesteryear...they are the ones to blame...

Street

[swilly]

I always want the cops to catch their man.

Whilst, generally, I am a supporter of the police, in practice i feel the focus, purpose and attitude of individual officers to be very different from that which I would hope.

On the occasions when I have had contact with the cops (never as the crim, I might add) I always get the impression they are an insulated aggressive-defensive bunch looking for the slightest of opportunities to get heavy with you, that they see very little difference between the crims and the rest of us.

I support the police and would stop in the street to assist an officer if they appeared to need it........but I dont think I would ever approach one otherwise.

All imho.

[Flat in Fifth]

A straw poll which might or might not reveal anything.

In days of old when knights were bold........

Many bib travelled from home to work in full uniform. Remember the striped "Dixon" arm band? To show whether an officer was on duty or not.

OK so how many today go to work in civvies and get changed in the locker room, and why the shift in behaviour?

[piccy mate]

My first bad instance of policing was up in lancs back in 82 or 83 - An idiot had carved me up when he was joinig from the left - I showed my displeasure by beeping my horn. All hell let loose with the result we had a broken aerial and wing mirror. Eventually the numpties tired of trying to bait me out of the car and drove off.
I got the reg No and went a found a police man and reported it. I was invited to go down to the local nick which I willingly did.
When I got there I was told " we got the bloke , he's well known to us" - Good, I thought, Justice will be done - was it?
Was it hell, the PC immediately accused me of wilfully damaging scrote's car and threatened to charge me with criminal damage. a long argument ensued with no consideration of the facts presented by me or the 3 other occupants of the my car.
At that point we decided discretion was the better course and walked out.
I later discovered that this scrote was a police informer and that the police tended to overlook his indiscretions in return for his tales.
That made me realise the police were no longer my friend, but people to be very wary of.
Subsequent police actions (Inaction?) haven't lessened my wariness/dislike of them.
Piccy

[bryan35]

I've always found the police to be very reasonable, right up until dealing with Humbersides 'safety camera partnership'. I've still got the mountain of correspondence - requests - refusals - etc. Then a very agressive plod in their lovely new listed building, quarry tiled floor, ash furnitured headquarters. The complaint went in that afternoon - to the CC.

Respect has dropped considerably since.

Add to that the fact that police where I work were very busy doing cars for using the newly designated 'bus route' Ching ching ching, while we had a violent 'guest' in our reception which the police never bothered attending at all.

C'est la vie!


It is of course Blunderside (humberside) police, so they can be excused!!!!
A colleage of mine mentioned that the luftwaffe did more for town planning than Hull city council ever have!

[jacobyte]

swilly said:

I always want the cops to catch their man.

Even in The Thomas Crown Affair?
and The Italian Job?
Etc?

(God knows why the first two films I thought of happen to have had remakes done!)

[swilly]

jacobyte said:

swilly said: I always want the cops to catch their man. Even in The Thomas Crown Affair? and The Italian Job? Etc? (God knows why the first two films I thought of happen to have had remakes done!)

They are only films.

[s2art]

Streetcop said:

A bit like the old cowboy movies...you either cheer the bloke in white or the bloke dressed in black... In my opinion, you are what you are inside and nothing changes that....you cheer for good against bad and you don't change...no matter how many speeding tickets you have... If the speeding tickets were false and you were framed...then perhaps....but if you were caught fair and square, but you don't like the policies or the rules...tough cheese....(not you hertsbiker, just saying 'you'.. One of the reasons why the police aren't doing the things you would like them to is that they are dancing to the tune of the human rights act, the police and criminal evidence act, the race discrimination act, the health and safety act etc etc.....once all those things have been met and the bobbies aren't in danger of being sued, sacked or imprisoned...they can then set about dealing with the problem at hand.. As I've said before...the softly softly policing of now...(the police SERVICE) is all down to the do gooders and whiners/whingers of yesteryear...they are the ones to blame... Street

And there is the problem. We, the public/silent majority, see the service in action. The plods are the interface most of us interact with and thus judge the police by such interactions. It may well be the fault of wit politicians and chief constables coupled to the lack of democratic controls (about time for CC's to be elected, bye bye Brunstrom).
Not that long ago the police (bobbys, plods, whatever) were viewed by the law abiding majority as sort of knights in dark blue armour, now they seem more akin to uber ink monitors, more concerned with enforcing petty regulations than defending the public and keeping the peace.

[autismuk]

s2art said:

And there is the problem. We, the public/silent majority, see the service in action. The plods are the interface most of us interact with and thus judge the police by such interactions. It may well be the fault of wit politicians and chief constables coupled to the lack of democratic controls (about time for CC's to be elected, bye bye Brunstrom). Not that long ago the police (bobbys, plods, whatever) were viewed by the law abiding majority as sort of knights in dark blue armour, now they seem more akin to uber ink monitors, more concerned with enforcing petty regulations than defending the public and keeping the peace.

The police are obsessed with statistical returns (obviously not your individual police, but as a unit).

It's much easier to enforce petty regulations that to catch "real villains" so to speak, and if they can fiddle the figures so they count the same they'll do the petty ones because it shows they are "doing better" - though they aren't at all.

The senior management is judged - pay, promotions on the statistical returns.

Of course the worst statistical return is an unsolved crime. That led to the Mancuinian fiasco where they were giving unsolved crimes to people more or less arbitrarily - this kind of thing happens.

[jacobyte]

Hmmm, well what about reaction to "The Heist". Is this kind of desire for the bad guys to win beneficial in any way (as this is a mix of fact and fiction)?

www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=141956&f=141&h=0

e.g:

Byff said:

I thought it was fantastic - infact I might just take up a life of crime. The adrenalin rush when he was walking through the hall with the painting was better than any drug.

QED?