overtaking speed
Discussion
Was overtaking a car the other day and went past at 65mph on a 60mph road just to ensure I spent less time on the other side of the road.
Wasn't dangerous, no traffic approaching, etc
But got me thinking how the law would think about increasing your speed to minimise the amount of time spent over taking?
Obviously slowing back to the speed limit once past the car/bike or other.
I appreciate they may take the view that you shouldn't need to break the limit and it's dangerous to do so to finish your overtake. But it would mean you then need to be on the wrong side of the road longer.
Can any officers give an insight into possible reactions from the laws perspective?
I'm assuming it would be down to individuals discretion.
Wasn't dangerous, no traffic approaching, etc
But got me thinking how the law would think about increasing your speed to minimise the amount of time spent over taking?
Obviously slowing back to the speed limit once past the car/bike or other.
I appreciate they may take the view that you shouldn't need to break the limit and it's dangerous to do so to finish your overtake. But it would mean you then need to be on the wrong side of the road longer.
Can any officers give an insight into possible reactions from the laws perspective?
I'm assuming it would be down to individuals discretion.
Illegal to drive over the speed limit on the correct side of the road...
... but somehow legal to exceed the limit on the wrong side of the road?
(Which is not to say that it's not common, or not necessariy the worst option, but if the overtake requires you to exceed the limit then you have to question whether it was a safe overtake).
... but somehow legal to exceed the limit on the wrong side of the road?
(Which is not to say that it's not common, or not necessariy the worst option, but if the overtake requires you to exceed the limit then you have to question whether it was a safe overtake).
It really depends on circumstances. On NSL single carriageway I overtake keeping the time exposed to danger at an absolute minimum. This usually means selecting the correct gear, getting the position right and WOT to get past as swiftly as possible.
Typically the speed limit is exceeded, not because I'm wilfully unlawful, but because I want to do it safely.
I know that people have been prosecuted for this in the past, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.
Sticking to the speed "limit" and inching past in the wrong lane for hundreds of meters, I'm not willing to take that risk!
Typically the speed limit is exceeded, not because I'm wilfully unlawful, but because I want to do it safely.
I know that people have been prosecuted for this in the past, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.
Sticking to the speed "limit" and inching past in the wrong lane for hundreds of meters, I'm not willing to take that risk!
A few years ago on the way home from North Wales I spent many miles on the A5 stuck behind a pair of caravans which were tailgating each other. When I finally came to a long, straight downhill section I put my foot to the floor. As I overtook the speedo went over 80, and at the bottom of the hill I found a couple of coppers looking at their speed gun and giving each other smug looks.
I never heard anything more about it though, so I assumed they'd realised that I was only speeding to overtake safely, and decided to exercise a little discretion and common sense. Common sense and discretion aside though, there's no exception in the law which allows you to exceed the limit while overtaking, and if I had been prosecuted for it I would have had no grounds for complaint.
I never heard anything more about it though, so I assumed they'd realised that I was only speeding to overtake safely, and decided to exercise a little discretion and common sense. Common sense and discretion aside though, there's no exception in the law which allows you to exceed the limit while overtaking, and if I had been prosecuted for it I would have had no grounds for complaint.
CYMR0 said:
Illegal to drive over the speed limit on the correct side of the road...
... but somehow legal to exceed the limit on the wrong side of the road?
(Which is not to say that it's not common, or not necessariy the worst option, but if the overtake requires you to exceed the limit then you have to question whether it was a safe overtake).
It could be argued that it simply makes a safe overtake even safer!... but somehow legal to exceed the limit on the wrong side of the road?
(Which is not to say that it's not common, or not necessariy the worst option, but if the overtake requires you to exceed the limit then you have to question whether it was a safe overtake).
The following tale may sound a bit "Hollywood", but I assure you that it is a true story that happened to Me a few years back:
I was behind a 2.8i Capri doing 40mph in a 60mph zone. This speed was maintained on clear straights, bends everywhere. Behind Me was a long train of cars all following us having to do 40mph as oncoming traffic offered no opportunities to get round the Capri.
After several miles following the Capri, we finally came upon a long straight that was clear of oncoming traffic and so I commenced to overtake the Capri. For some reason though, the Capri decided to speed up and match My speed, keeping Me on the wrong side of the road. Whatever speed I drove at, the Capri matched it. At this point I could see a truck approaching in the opposite direction away in the distance.
I tried to slow to drop back behind the Capri but the t
t driving the Capri slowed as well and the traffic that had been behind me were now right behind the Capri leaving Me nowhere to pull in.The only option left to Me was to start to overtake again but exceed the speed limit by some margin in order to get ahead of the Capri in time and pull back onto the correct side of the road. The Capri driver tried to speed up to match My speed again but I just managed to get ahead of him and ended up having to cut him up to avoid a collision with the oncoming truck!
I've no idea why the Capri driver did something so dangerous, unless it was because he didn't like the idea of an E30 BMW 325i Sport overtaking his precious car. Had he maintained his 40 mph as he had done for God knows how many miles then My overtake would have been perfectly safe with no need to exceed the speed limit.
I was expecting the Capri driver to speed up to try to get back around Me but he didn't, he seemed to drop back down to his previous 40 mph so I just left him to it! (I suspect the rest of the cars simply didn't dare to attempt an overtake having seen the grief I went through to get past him!).
To this day it's one of the most bizarre incidents I've ever encountered!
(Although the driver of the red Fiesta approaching Me from the opposite direction on a two lane straight road, who decided it would be fun to straddle the white line in the path of the oncoming Ferrari last Sunday runs it close! If I hadn't slowed to a crawl and he hadn't swerved back into his lane at the last second then that could have got nasty! - Again though: Why do it?
There was nothing in the road that he had to swerve to avoid or any other reason for him to straddle the centre-line! Weird! ).
Many years ago, when I took an advanced driving test (the Examiner was a very senior Police Instructor) I asked him about the maximum speed limits for the various roads that we'd be driving on.
On motorways and dual carriageways, he gave me a limit of 85mph! I asked whether anyone had ever been pulled by the Police while on test and he said no.
I've always thought what an interesting conversation it would have been if I had been pulled over...
Tim
On motorways and dual carriageways, he gave me a limit of 85mph! I asked whether anyone had ever been pulled by the Police while on test and he said no.
I've always thought what an interesting conversation it would have been if I had been pulled over...
Tim
If the difference in speed between you and the car in front is such that to overtake safely you need to exceed the limit by a normally prosecuteable margin then you need to think two things:
- why do I need to overtake! this person in front is driving quite close to the limit
- if I need to exceed the limit to get past there is only a short distance/time to complete that manoeuvre, should I bother
Dairymilk said:
If the difference in speed between you and the car in front is such that to overtake safely you need to exceed the limit by a normally prosecuteable margin then you need to think two things:
That assumes the driver of the car in front isn't one of those helpful souls who only gets anywhere the speed limit when there is an opportunity to overtake.- why do I need to overtake! this person in front is driving quite close to the limit
- if I need to exceed the limit to get past there is only a short distance/time to complete that manoeuvre, should I bother
Nigel Worc's said:
You can't exceed the posted limit, ever, legally.
The End.
Hope that helps.
Maybe in a sensible world the offence would be 'driving at an inappropriate speed for the conditions' and not 'exceeding an arbitrary but easy to measure/prosecute number'? Yep, I know, you've heard it all before zzzzzzzzzThe End.
Hope that helps.
Effect on number of convictions? I've got a fiver says minimum 95% reduction, aren't the police supposed to be interested in reducing the crime rate?
Vizsla said:
Maybe in a sensible world the offence would be 'driving at an inappropriate speed for the conditions' and not 'exceeding an arbitrary but easy to measure/prosecute number'?
So speeding would become a matter of opinion rather than fact. And when you get stopped doing 30 in what used to be a 30 limit when we had limits, but some copper thinks 30 was too fast for the conditions on that day, you'll go to court to defend yourself. In fact, everyone will go to court to argue their case as to why their speed wasn't inappropriate.So all in all, a rubbish idea that just isn't remotely workable and would have more complaints of injustice than the current system.
ohtari said:
It really depends on circumstances. On NSL single carriageway I overtake keeping the time exposed to danger at an absolute minimum. This usually means selecting the correct gear, getting the position right and WOT to get past as swiftly as possible.
Typically the speed limit is exceeded, not because I'm wilfully unlawful, but because I want to do it safely.
I know that people have been prosecuted for this in the past, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.
Sticking to the speed "limit" and inching past in the wrong lane for hundreds of meters, I'm not willing to take that risk!
Exactly Typically the speed limit is exceeded, not because I'm wilfully unlawful, but because I want to do it safely.
I know that people have been prosecuted for this in the past, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.
Sticking to the speed "limit" and inching past in the wrong lane for hundreds of meters, I'm not willing to take that risk!
ohtari said:
It really depends on circumstances. On NSL single carriageway I overtake keeping the time exposed to danger at an absolute minimum.
I've never really understood TED minimisation in overtakes. If it's dangerous, you don't overtake. If it's not dangerous, who gives a hoot how long you are out for?All this speeding crap has been going on so long I have lost interest now.....
Overtake safely OP. I always do. Forget the speed limit signs as they are irrelevant to your safety or anyone else. Other factors are far more important. Examples include; Junctions, dips, exits and entry points to the road.
Unfortunately even the road markings have now been hijacked by idiots: the information provided by double whites for example seems to be less valid than in years gone by.
To avoid pointless discussions and/or fines etc factor in the possibility of being observed by a civil servant or an automated piece of taxpayer funded technology when deciding if the overtake is 'on'.
The absence of the above, you can relax and use power/torque, speed, available grip, line of sight, closing distances and judgement of potential reaction from the other drivers to define your overtaking tactics. Select the correct gear and off you go!
Time exposed to danger IS a valid consideration, but simply mashing the throttle is not an option due to some of the other factors above (again dependent on conditions and the vehicle type you are driving).
Enjoy!
Overtake safely OP. I always do. Forget the speed limit signs as they are irrelevant to your safety or anyone else. Other factors are far more important. Examples include; Junctions, dips, exits and entry points to the road.
Unfortunately even the road markings have now been hijacked by idiots: the information provided by double whites for example seems to be less valid than in years gone by.
To avoid pointless discussions and/or fines etc factor in the possibility of being observed by a civil servant or an automated piece of taxpayer funded technology when deciding if the overtake is 'on'.
The absence of the above, you can relax and use power/torque, speed, available grip, line of sight, closing distances and judgement of potential reaction from the other drivers to define your overtaking tactics. Select the correct gear and off you go!
Time exposed to danger IS a valid consideration, but simply mashing the throttle is not an option due to some of the other factors above (again dependent on conditions and the vehicle type you are driving).
Enjoy!
Edited by Davidonly on Sunday 8th June 16:35
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Vizsla said:
Maybe in a sensible world the offence would be 'driving at an inappropriate speed for the conditions' and not 'exceeding an arbitrary but easy to measure/prosecute number'?
So speeding would become a matter of opinion rather than fact. And when you get stopped doing 30 in what used to be a 30 limit when we had limits, but some copper thinks 30 was too fast for the conditions on that day, you'll go to court to defend yourself. In fact, everyone will go to court to argue their case as to why their speed wasn't inappropriate.So all in all, a rubbish idea that just isn't remotely workable and would have more complaints of injustice than the current system.
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